January Banter 2020

[showmethesnow]

1 minute ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Yes that may be the case. I didn't look at the 0z GEPS, but the op run was clearly getting the cold in earlier and favoring low pressure to our south/southeast late next week/weekend.

 I did live up there for 10 years until work required me to move to the nearly snowless lowlands. I did find a spot on the interior upper part of the peninsula away from the bays and removed from the immediate coast, so it isn't awful all of the time. A move north is likely in the near future. But not merely to the northern edge of the subtopics where you are, I am talking NORTH.

That is hopefully my wife and myself in a little under two years. Considering two places at this time. Upper Laurel Highlands in western PA and Maine a couple of hours off the coast where real estate is cheaper and the snows are deeper. Looked into some other NE states but I wasn't particularly fond of their taxes and their current fiscal issues that probably foretold ever increasing taxes. Will revisit everything a year from now so the above may change.

[wxdude64]

1 minute ago, losetoa6 said:

Lol to the bolded! 

Are u chasing upslope ? If so ...my experience is Frostburg is usually the cutoff for significant accumulations.  Cumberland is typically too far east but maybe you meant a general storm .

Agree, upslope, if you're not within 15 miles of the 'peaks', dries out RAPIDLY!!

[showmethesnow]

1 minute ago, losetoa6 said:

Lol to the bolded! 

Are u chasing upslope ? If so ...my experience is Frostburg is usually the cutoff for significant accumulations.  Cumberland is typically too far east but maybe you meant a general storm .

Screw up slope. 

I am talking one of the two KU's we are going to get in February. Just hoping we can time one of them up around a weekend. 

[CAPE]

2 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

That is hopefully my wife and myself in a little under two years. Considering two places at this time. Upper Laurel Highlands in western PA and Maine a couple of hours off the coast where real estate is cheaper and the snows are deeper. Looked into some other NE states but I wasn't particularly fond of their taxes and their current fiscal issues that probably foretold ever increasing taxes. Will revisit everything a year from now so the above may change.

That's a nice spot, and I also like the areas around Canaan, and western MD. A bit too remote though. I really do like Vermont, NH, and Maine. I particularly like coastal Maine for its beauty and somewhat 'milder' climate, and still snows a lot.

[CAPE]

11 hours ago, RevWarReenactor said:

Thanks so much for the description of my area!! Its very interesting and informative. See the below map for my location (black X), I am at the base of Iron Hill (circled in Red), which is a 332 ft hill and the highest in Delaware. I still have a 90 ft elevation but you'd be shocked that small difference between 90ft and 332ft often means a bit more snow up there. They got a bit more out of the last event (instead of nothing here they got a dusting there). Its only a half mile away. I honestly thought I was north enough to not see much impacts from either bay. I thought wrong.

Also of note is the blue triangle, I drive that way to work and I have no idea why but its always a degree colder and snowier in that spot during marginal events. Its so strange. Its not even super elevated. I wonder if the hills to the south provide a buffer zone from the Cbay.

Thanks for the information on your area. That would be a place I could live. But an hour and a half drive to work probably isn't doable for me. Maybe I could land somewhere north of Bel Air. That way I am in a better area, still within civilization, and within about 45 mins of work. I don't know. But even a 5 mile drive from APG up route 22 to I-95 away from the bay yields more snow. I've seen it happen. So the further away. The better.

Thanks for the details on the climo. I guess I can't really argue it any further. It just feels like there needs to be an account of the years we get a lot more snow and that needs to be factored into the potential. But I guess ultimately, the totals we get on a year by year basis, don't lie. All they tell me is, I need to move to another area.

 

 

 

Not to nitpick, but there are higher spots in N DE near the PA line. A few locations over 400 ft.

[showmethesnow]

Just now, C.A.P.E. said:

That's a nice spot, and I also like the areas around Canaan, and western MD. A bit too remote though. I really do like Vermont, NH, and Maine. I particularly like coastal Maine for its beauty and somewhat 'milder' climate, and still snows a lot.

Fell in love with Maine after our vacation this summer on the coast. Farthest north I had ever been until then was Salem a couple of times on one of my many visits to Cape Cod. I can see getting something 3 /4 hours off the coast where the maritime influenced is muted quite a bit for heavier snows and putting our trailer on the coast (love the coast) for summertime enjoyment.

[H2O]

This page of the banter thread sponsored by the Travel Channel and Trivago.

[Rhino16]

30 minutes ago, H2O said:

This page of the banter thread sponsored by the Travel Channel and Trivago.

Hotel?

[aldie 22]

Seeing how most of January was supposed to be toast I sure hope nobody gets upset if next weekend doesn't materialize into an event. Just a few days ago some of you were hoping sometime in February would be ok

[H2O]

I'm still counting on Dec to deliver

[WinterWxLuvr]

4 minutes ago, leesburg 04 said:

Seeing how most of January was supposed to be toast I sure hope nobody gets upset if next weekend doesn't materialize into an event. Just a few days ago some of you were hoping sometime in February would be ok

Nonsense. If it doesn’t snow at least 18” next weekend, I’m out. 

My mind can’t get beyond tomorrow’s game anyway. 3 keys for me, o-line blocks and maintains contact through the tackle, d-line gets pressure and narrows vision with hands consistently, win the kicking game. We do those I think we play another week.

[nj2va]

14 minutes ago, leesburg 04 said:

Seeing how most of January was supposed to be toast I sure hope nobody gets upset if next weekend doesn't materialize into an event. Just a few days ago some of you were hoping sometime in February would be ok

Mood swing roller coaster in full effect.  Hang on.

[wxdude64]

35 minutes ago, Rhino16 said:

Hotel?

Motel....

[WinterWxLuvr]

1 minute ago, wxdude64 said:

Motel....

Holiday Inn?

[wxdude64]

Just now, WinterWxLuvr said:

Holiday Inn?

lol, yep, someone got it

[WinterWxLuvr]

4 minutes ago, wxdude64 said:

lol, yep, someone got it

Don’t think most of the younger crowd will understand

[JakkelWx]

44 minutes ago, Rhino16 said:

Hotel?

Trivago 

[Stormpc]

Just now, WinterWxLuvr said:

Don’t think most of the younger crowd will understand

Dorks!

You guys are too funny. I saw the 'Hotel' hanging out there and was waiting and wondering if the remainder would follow. Good job. 

[aldie 22]

35 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Nonsense. If it doesn’t snow at least 18” next weekend, I’m out. 

My mind can’t get beyond tomorrow’s game anyway. 3 keys for me, o-line blocks and maintains contact through the tackle, d-line gets pressure and narrows vision with hands consistently, win the kicking game. We do those I think we play another week.

Turnovers as well...Jimmy G likes to give up a few. If he does get touchdowns not FG

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Not to nitpick, but there are higher spots in N DE near the PA line. A few locations over 400 ft.

The high point is in the hills NW of Wilmington near the PA line. But I figured he must have meant biggest hill by vertical top to bottom. That might be true. I know the hill he is talking about. But it’s defini not the highest point in Delaware. 

[wxdude64]

23 minutes ago, WinterWxLuvr said:

Don’t think most of the younger crowd will understand

Lets share 

 

[wxdude64]

And since we going old school today.....

 

[CAPE]

32 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

The high point is in the hills NW of Wilmington near the PA line. But I figured he must have meant biggest hill by vertical top to bottom. That might be true. I know the hill he is talking about. But it’s defini not the highest point in Delaware. 

Maybe. Yeah I know that hill too-  It sticks out because there is nothing but flat all around it, esp driving up from the south. Now that I know about where he lives, that is a dead zone in many cases for snow. Not sure what the 'new' averages are, but going by the old NCDC 30 year avg for snowfall into the early 2000s, the annual avg snowfall for that area is about the same as for mine.

Do you know where I can access the latest climo data? NCDC used to have a really cool searchable database to find climo data for cities/towns.

eta- I found the data tools for 1981-2010 'normals', but it no longer has snowfall data. I recall being able to find annual avg snowfall for practically any town years ago.

[wawarriors4]

The 6z GEFS shows snow in Mexico City, I know it's like 7,000 feet in elevation, but how often does Snow in Mexico City happen?

[bluehens]

39 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

The high point is in the hills NW of Wilmington near the PA line. But I figured he must have meant biggest hill by vertical top to bottom. That might be true. I know the hill he is talking about. But it’s defini not the highest point in Delaware. 

Actually the highest elevation in DE is 448 feet and it’s just slightly NE of Wilmington right on the PA border. I live a mile from there and my elevation is about 400 ft. I work in the city of Wilmington and it’s crazy how much of a snow difference that 400 ft makes. 

[psuhoffman]

47 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Maybe. Yeah I know that hill too-  It sticks out because there is nothing but flat all around it, esp driving up from the south. Now that I know about where he lives, that is a dead zone in many cases for snow. Not sure what the 'new' averages are, but going by the old NCDC 30 year avg for snowfall into the early 2000s, the annual avg snowfall for that area is about the same as for mine.

Do you know where I can access the latest climo data? NCDC used to have a really cool searchable database to find climo data for cities/towns.

eta- I found the data tools for 1981-2010 'normals', but it no longer has snowfall data. I recall being able to find annual avg snowfall for practically any town years ago.

Yea in fairness to him he does live in a snow anus. Especially for how far north he is. No worse than other coastal plain locations near water, but worse than some coastal plain locations and way worse than anyone west of the fall line in this sub or the philly one. There is an elevation minimum right there near where the Chesapeake and Delaware River nearly converge. The canal connecting them is just south of him. There is a screw zone there where the warmth that rides up the two waterways tend to engulf that area just as fast as places to the south then stalls out at the fall line just northwest if him. Plus the downslope off the hills just to his north and west cuts down in his precip some and warms a degree or two.  Even a NNE wind downslopes off the hills along the DE PA border . On top of that he is just slightly too far south west to really cash on  miller b storms but painfully close, even more painful to him when a storms like Dec 2000 or Dec 2010 happens and he can smell the big snows happening 15 miles northeast of him. 

I totally get his frustration. But he needs to accept (and seems to be) that it’s his climo and a reality that is unlikely to change. 

I use this to get a lot of my snowfall data.

http://climod2.nrcc.cornell.edu

There is so much good stuff. You can get daily data from every coop or you can get monthly summaries which will list the avg snowfall also. I am not sure where has the new 30 year climo (technically it won’t come out until after this year anyways) but you can easily calculate it using the yearly summaries. 

[olafminesaw]

41 minutes ago, wawarriors4 said:

The 6z GEFS shows snow in Mexico City, I know it's like 7,000 feet in elevation, but how often does Snow in Mexico City happen?

 

It's fascinating, Wikipedia says they used to get ocassional lake effect snow (once per decade or so) but since the lake's disapearance in 1965, they have not received any snowfall

[MacChump]

2 hours ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Not to nitpick, but there are higher spots in N DE near the PA line. A few locations over 400 ft.

haha, i was going to make the same post...I drive past the highest point in Delaware just about daily, which is on Ebright road and is about 448 feet ASL

https://www.dgs.udel.edu/delaware-geology/highest-point-delaware

 

edit: my bad, guess I should have read the whole thread as this has been mentioned a couple of times

[Winter Wizard]

1 hour ago, bluehens said:

Actually the highest elevation in DE is 448 feet and it’s just slightly NE of Wilmington right on the PA border. I live a mile from there and my elevation is about 400 ft. I work in the city of Wilmington and it’s crazy how much of a snow difference that 400 ft makes. 

I grew up very close to the high elevation spot and in marginal events, there can be a significant difference between my house and ILG. Best recent example I can think of is 2/3/14 where I received over 4 inches and the airport barely got 1. In the last winter I measured every event in North Wilmington (2014-15), I received about 30% more snow than the airport over the season.

That being said, I do understand @RevWarReenactor's frustration about the area because that area is often painstakingly close to bigger events but ends up on the wrong side of the gradient.  @psuhoffman outlined this before with Miller Bs, but it's true for mixed events and southern sliders too. Mdecoy's situation is a bit worse than mine was when I lived in DE, but I still missed out on events such as 2/1994, 12/1995, 12/14/13, and 3/4/19 by maybe 20 miles. Meanwhile storms like 1/30/10, both March 2014 storms, 2/16/15, and 1/13/19 were advisory level storms while downstate and the DMV got crushed. Delaware is also pretty susceptible to dry slotting during big Miller As, which was most evident in the Blizzard of 2016 when NCC was a relative minima compared to the surrounding areas. 

[aldie 22]

Huge freezing rain event at 32 degrees on the gfs. I'm buying 2 generators one for my house and the other for the popeye's down the street