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The GFS is so far north with the snow. Of course, as with all systems this year, there has been one model that is warmer than the rest, and it ends up being right. I am going to go with the GFS because there has not been any pattern change whatsoever for me to feel confident we come out with a colder solution.

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I hear this sentiment so much.  Peoples memories really want to remember things for the best (or at least different than reality).  The old timers always talk about the crazy winters we had in the 40's, 50's and 60's, however there is just no data to back it up.  I think a lot of it has to do with how well we can handle snow now and predict snow these days compared to back then.  A typical well forecasted storm now might have been crippling 50 years ago if it hit at the wrong time and couldn't be cleaned up well.  I know that there are a lot of subtleties that I'm glazing over, but there just isn't historic data to back up the idea that winters used to be MUCH colder and snowier.  


You can look at the total snow... the average temperature... but what about combining them and looking at how we trend for days with snow on the ground. I think this is a better gauge on how well we remember a certain winter or period of winters. Growing up in the 90s it seemed like we had awesome winters and I can remember more years than not that we would have snow on the ground for long periods. Building snow forts and sled hills off the garage roof that stayed for weeks not a weekend. Anyways found these on the BUF climate page and I think they actually back up this idea...


1451ae0b084fd5862728ff9299a14a99.jpg
Average Days with 1” over this period was 71.2 days. Big thing that stands out here in the consistency of 20 straight seasons from 1990-2010 where every season had 50+ days. Now notice the last 8 seasons... 4 of those 8 we failed to see 50 days.


f03fa24b1a3869a6891d0b122d43a42f.jpg
Average days with 6” over this period was 24.6 days. Again can see the reduced frequency over the past 10 seasons compared to the 90s and 2000s.


65c277d8964dd5b974a350f4fc4a9049.jpg
Now the 12” chart is a real eye popper. Average days for this period was 8.6 days. Which is heavily skewed by the monster winters in the 70s. From 1993-2004 we had 5 out of 11 seasons with 10 or more days having 12” on the ground. Over the next 15 seasons following this we would only see 1 more season with over 10 days of 12” on the ground.


Can cut the numbers any way you want but I think it does show we are having more trouble keeping a snowpack on the ground in the past few years regardless of where we shake out for actual snowfall for the season.


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Yes! Time for the locals to start the dart throwing contest! Props to Mr. Santos he gets the “sticking yer neck out there” award! Nice 3-5” zone from northern Buffalo metro to the western Rochester burbs. Also showing we will be over to all snow by 8am Saturday... yikes... Good Luck Channel 4!

3e7daee827787b381d92d22a840bbcdc.png43c35fb448824d5cdf01b52ad8d9410e.png


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2 hours ago, SouthBuffaloSteve said:

 


You can look at the total snow... the average temperature... but what about combining them and looking at how we trend for days with snow on the ground. I think this is a better gauge on how well we remember a certain winter or period of winters. Growing up in the 90s it seemed like we had awesome winters and I can remember more years than not that we would have snow on the ground for long periods. Building snow forts and sled hills off the garage roof that stayed for weeks not a weekend. Anyways found these on the BUF climate page and I think they actually back up this idea...


1451ae0b084fd5862728ff9299a14a99.jpg
Average Days with 1” over this period was 71.2 days. Big thing that stands out here in the consistency of 20 straight seasons from 1990-2010 where every season had 50+ days. Now notice the last 8 seasons... 4 of those 8 we failed to see 50 days.


f03fa24b1a3869a6891d0b122d43a42f.jpg
Average days with 6” over this period was 24.6 days. Again can see the reduced frequency over the past 10 seasons compared to the 90s and 2000s.


65c277d8964dd5b974a350f4fc4a9049.jpg
Now the 12” chart is a real eye popper. Average days for this period was 8.6 days. Which is heavily skewed by the monster winters in the 70s. From 1993-2004 we had 5 out of 11 seasons with 10 or more days having 12” on the ground. Over the next 15 seasons following this we would only see 1 more season with over 10 days of 12” on the ground.


Can cut the numbers any way you want but I think it does show we are having more trouble keeping a snowpack on the ground in the past few years regardless of where we shake out for actual snowfall for the season.


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Those charts are awesome to see, thank you for the posts! To me these charts are the proof in the pudding. To me yearly snow totals or average temps mean nothing without staying power. Thanks again for this info.

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3 hours ago, SouthBuffaloSteve said:

 


You can look at the total snow... the average temperature... but what about combining them and looking at how we trend for days with snow on the ground. I think this is a better gauge on how well we remember a certain winter or period of winters. Growing up in the 90s it seemed like we had awesome winters and I can remember more years than not that we would have snow on the ground for long periods. Building snow forts and sled hills off the garage roof that stayed for weeks not a weekend. Anyways found these on the BUF climate page and I think they actually back up this idea...


1451ae0b084fd5862728ff9299a14a99.jpg
Average Days with 1” over this period was 71.2 days. Big thing that stands out here in the consistency of 20 straight seasons from 1990-2010 where every season had 50+ days. Now notice the last 8 seasons... 4 of those 8 we failed to see 50 days.


f03fa24b1a3869a6891d0b122d43a42f.jpg
Average days with 6” over this period was 24.6 days. Again can see the reduced frequency over the past 10 seasons compared to the 90s and 2000s.


65c277d8964dd5b974a350f4fc4a9049.jpg
Now the 12” chart is a real eye popper. Average days for this period was 8.6 days. Which is heavily skewed by the monster winters in the 70s. From 1993-2004 we had 5 out of 11 seasons with 10 or more days having 12” on the ground. Over the next 15 seasons following this we would only see 1 more season with over 10 days of 12” on the ground.


Can cut the numbers any way you want but I think it does show we are having more trouble keeping a snowpack on the ground in the past few years regardless of where we shake out for actual snowfall for the season.


.

 

I agree with everything you posted.  I was actually thinking of pulling some of that data to graph myself but had forgotten buffalo already had it neatly packaged for us.  It is a very good metric to use when judging the strength of a winter.  The 2010’s definitely look ugly on paper!

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3 minutes ago, rochesterdave said:

Always gotta look at all the parameters. This will kill accumulation. Can it even REALLY snow at 37? 34 or below is when u have a chance. Yuck

I feel like it hasn't been below freezing in weeks. Its 46 deg outside right now. The average high today is 32 and low is 19. We're at a +14 of the high at 11 PM on Jan 2nd. The next 2 weeks are historically the coldest time of the year and mid Jan looks like an oven. The only way my call before year comes to fruition is some big time lake effect and I don't see the same setup as last year with the SSW in late Dec which gave us the big events in Jan early Feb.

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Just checked out my go-to webcams from where I lived most of the past decade in West Michigan. They've barely had any snow this year...got 6 inches New Year's eve...two days later and it's pretty much all gone already due to temps in the 40s. Exactly the reason I am glad it didn't snow here the other day...it would all be gone anyways!

Next week is looking like out best shot at getting some snows in the midst of this horrific-ness.

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9 minutes ago, TugHillMatt said:

Just checked out my go-to webcams from where I lived most of the past decade in West Michigan. They've barely had any snow this year...got 6 inches New Year's eve...two days later and it's pretty much all gone already due to temps in the 40s. Exactly the reason I am glad it didn't snow here the other day...it would all be gone anyways!

Next week is looking like out best shot at getting some snows in the midst of this horrific-ness.

Even worth only has a foot on the ground in the Tug

http://www.northernchateau.com/northernchateau.htm

camgd.php?updatefreq=5&camsite=1&cam=2

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3 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Even worth only has a foot on the ground in the Tug

http://www.northernchateau.com/northernchateau.htm

camgd.php?updatefreq=5&camsite=1&cam=2

This made me chuckle a bit! True, that is low for them. There are many areas on the Tug with grass showing, or very shallow base. I have met more and more people who have said they have given up on snowmobiling. They said the cost of upkeep and fees with such lousy winters lately isn't worth it.

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