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12/17 Messy Mix


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3 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

It can be more extreme ...

I mean we all knows this that are weather dorks, but in the Plains you can get some rather uniquely physically stressing soundings, with 19 F within 2,000 foot of the ground, and 44 F melting above the BL, where there is yet overrunning convective elements in the sub-mid levels producing lightning and thunder fall rates.   It does happen ...rarely. I've not seen it first hand, but have seen live video of orange flash, thunder boom, and raining hard enough that the air appeared foggy at relatively short distances with a temperature of 19 F. 

Heavy or not, you're efficient - just a matter of whether that efficiency and rate of phase change competes with fall rate... Obviously, it's never 1::1 - it can be... hydrometeoroids splash on contact too..

If you get perfect conditions....say, very light freezing rain, or freezing drizzle with light wind and temps in the mid 20s....you can actually get a ratio over 1 since water expands when it freezes. It's rare, but in the paper I read a few years ago on these ratios, they did document some rare cases of 1.08 to 1 or 1.09 to 1 type stuff.

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Just now, weatherwiz said:

yup...not only are they garbage to begin with but add p-type issues into the picture and they become worse than garbage. Only thing perhaps realistic about that is the potential max area

That should have always been a player on the table...scenarios like that are not uncommon in these setups 

In years past, It has performed well in these types i have always thought, Not so much in Miller A's or B's though.

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

It's why EC soundings would be awfully nice.

Yeah, the clown maps are left guessing more than usual on this type of setup. That map would leave you thinking that the sleet/snow line was nearly stationary between 12z and 18z just north of the pike when we know that is not the case at all.

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3 minutes ago, dryslot said:

In years past, It has performed well in these types i have always thought, Not so much in Miller A's or B's though.

with totals? 

I have always thought that they handled well such aspects as where the max totals will be and hinting at what the upper range of totals may be

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3 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

If you get perfect conditions....say, very light freezing rain, or freezing drizzle with light wind and temps in the mid 20s....you can actually get a ratio over 1 since water expands when it freezes. It's rare, but in the paper I read a few years ago on these ratios, they did document some rare cases of 1.08 to 1 or 1.09 to 1 type stuff.

Yeah..right, secondary effect ...

I mean the falling particle mass  - 'how much is frozen'  Impact prevent total... it has to. I'd love to read the paper your refer

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