Winter 2020 New England Banter and General Obs

[OceanStWx]

2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

So what's your plan? I mean it's fine to be an idealist but what exactly are you proposing . I seem to have seen that climate related deaths are way down and if course costs are up when we build on barrier beaches. We are pretty dumb

I'm not the one making the plans Steve. But I think anyone advocating for decarbonizing our grid and electrifying as much as we can is on the right track. 

And weather related deaths may be down because of better forecasting, I can't imagine deaths attributable to climate change are down. 

[CoastalWx]

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Straw man again. Like fossil fuels don't have awful byproducts. It's not just emissions, it's toxic waste that goes into groundwater. Fracking pollution is terrible for surrounding communities. I think the benefits of solar energy far outweigh the costs of disposal. 

Right. I see arguments like Steve is throwing out to counteract those benefits. It’s not even debatable.

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Straw man again. Like fossil fuels don't have awful byproducts. It's not just emissions, it's toxic waste that goes into groundwater. Fracking pollution is terrible for surrounding communities. I think the benefits of solar energy far outweigh the costs of disposal. 

Toxic waste from solar panels is a huge problem.  We really need to think it through not jump in head first. Last thing we need are more Army Corps of Engineers disasters 

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, CoastalWx said:

Right. I see arguments like Steve is throwing out to counteract those benefits. It’s not even debatable.

You might want to research your green solutions a little 

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, ORH_wxman said:

Honestly we’re not that far off from green energy becoming significantly cheaper than fossil fuels. If you read the advances even in the last 5-10 years then you’ll see how it is accelerating. It could probably use a kick in the pants with some more R&D funding, but even without that it’s probably a decade or two away from really changing our energy grid. 

Aviation is a long ways off from losing fossil fuels due to energy density issues in flying something that heavy (we just don’t have the energy density available that matches jet fuel)....but for cars and the electric grid the change is probably going to be pretty quick. 

Honestly I think there are some clever plans out there to kick R&D in the ass. Warren as part of her plan if she were elected would be to turn the military green. As CinC you have much more latitude with the military than you would passing bills through Congress. And when the military needs something, industry will innovate it because $$. That tech always spills out into the public. Just look at the space race.

[ORH_wxman]

4 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

What fuel produces the electricity?

Currently? Nat gas and oil are the big ones. 

Solar energy produces the majority electricity in the future scenarios. 

Edit: coal is still really big currently too. But declining. 

[Ginx snewx]

2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Currently? Nat gas and oil are the big ones. 

Solar energy produces the majority electricity in the future scenarios. 

Edit: coal is still really big currently too. But declining. 

Nuclear too

[OceanStWx]

5 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Toxic waste from solar panels is a huge problem.  We really need to think it through not jump in head first. Last thing we need are more Army Corps of Engineers disasters 

Think through what exactly? We've been thinking for three decades now. Is there waste from some green energy, yes. But I think the benefits outweigh the costs. 

If we had started the glide path of transitioning off fossil fuels when I started college it would be much less drastic to get to a 1.5 or 2C warming scenario by 2035. But here we are. Another 10 years thinking about whether waste from solar panels is worth it or not isn't going to make that transition any easier in my opinion.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

27 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

I find that a weird way to live. The media are there to report on goings on. So if there were no media the information would never reach the vast majority of people. Saying agenda is media driven is a talking point to discredit what the media are reporting on. But you do you.

 I’m not getting involved in the climate argument,  I’m just here to say that media is first and foremost an entertainment business that relies on ratings including the news outlets. 

[Ginx snewx]

2 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Think through what exactly? We've been thinking for three decades now. Is there waste from some green energy, yes. But I think the benefits outweigh the costs. 

If we had started the glide path of transitioning off fossil fuels when I started college it would be much less drastic to get to a 1.5 or 2C warming scenario by 2035. But here we are. Another 10 years thinking about whether waste from solar panels is worth it or not isn't going to make that transition any easier in my opinion.

I really think solar is great, strip mining entire forests to put them up not so much. Not just the carbon, it's the animals, the vegetation,  the beauty. It's pretty sad to see 180 acres of trees felled to put up solar. 

[CoastalWx]

16 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

You might want to research your green solutions a little 

I have. There is always waste in something. But we are talking something that 1) will be a big benefit with reducing emissions and 2) an ever improving way of getting energy.      Do you agree with Trump reducing regulations on things like clean air and water? 

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

I have. There is always waste in something. But we are talking something that 1) will be a big benefit with reducing emissions and 2) an ever improving way of getting energy.      Do you agree with Trump reducing regulations on things like clean air and water? 

No

[CoastalWx]

Just now, Ginx snewx said:

I really think solar is great, strip mining entire forests to put them up not so much. Not just the carbon, it's the animals, the vegetation,  the beauty. It's pretty sad to see 180 acres of trees felled to put up solar. 

And what about a fracking pipe? Do you have any idea what that does to the environment around it? And oh by the way....the pocket pool that these lobbyists do to put this thing at an angle in the middle of towns, near schools etc. There no second thought as long as the pockets get lined. I see you talk about mowing down forests, but the fact of the matter is that many solar farms are built on places already cleared like land fills and hell even cranberry bogs down in SE MA. 

[Ginx snewx]

2 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I have. There is always waste in something. But we are talking something that 1) will be a big benefit with reducing emissions and 2) an ever improving way of getting energy.      Do you agree with Trump reducing regulations on things like clean air and water? 

Other thing about forests, they are renewable energy sources. In 20 years all those solar fields are useless. 

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

And what about a fracking pipe? Do you have any idea what that does to the environment around it? And oh by the way....the pocket pool that these lobbyists do to put this thing at an angle in the middle of towns, near schools etc. There no second thought as long as the pockets get lined. I see you talk about mowing down forests, but the fact of the matter is that many solar farms are built on places already cleared like land fills and hell even cranberry bogs down in SE MA. 

Not true at all

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20180316/worry-over-solar-sprawl-spreads-across-rhode-island?template=ampart

[OceanStWx]

8 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I really think solar is great, strip mining entire forests to put them up not so much. Not just the carbon, it's the animals, the vegetation,  the beauty. It's pretty sad to see 180 acres of trees felled to put up solar. 

Because fossil fuel extraction is famously to surrounding environment. There is plenty of wasted space for solar farms.

Seems your own evidence supports that: In the absence of state programs that prioritize the reuse of dormant gravel pits, capped landfills, contaminated brownfields or other industrial sites, many projects are being proposed in rural parts of the state, on underutilized farm fields and in unprotected woodlands.

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Because fossil fuel extraction is famously to surrounding environment. There is plenty of wasted space for solar farms.

Seems your own evidence supports that: In the absence of state programs that prioritize the reuse of dormant gravel pits, capped landfills, contaminated brownfields or other industrial sites, many projects are being proposed in rural parts of the state, on underutilized farm fields and in unprotected woodlands.

I already said I like solar in the right places. I was in Hopkinton RI yesterday.  I saw a 180 acre forest completely stripped. If that's the road you want to go down hoping it helps climate change that's your prerogative.

[CoastalWx]

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Because fossil fuel extraction is famously to surrounding environment. There is plenty of wasted space for solar farms.

Seems your own evidence supports that: In the absence of state programs that prioritize the reuse of dormant gravel pits, capped landfills, contaminated brownfields or other industrial sites, many projects are being proposed in rural parts of the state, on underutilized farm fields and in unprotected woodlands.

I was literally posting that quote. 

[Ginx snewx]

My last comment,  all those replies from people on their 1000 dollar smart phones made by sweat shops in China. Like you really care. If that shames you so be it.

[OceanStWx]

Just now, Ginx snewx said:

I already said I like solar in the right places. I was in Hopkinton RI yesterday.  I saw a 180 acre forest completely stripped. If that's the road you want to go down hoping it helps climate change that's your prerogative.

That's the point I'm making and the article is making. We need collective action with government solutions too. Otherwise people will buy old cow pastures and level new growth to build their own solar farms. Guy bought the land and made the investment, that's market forces at work.

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, OceanStWx said:

That's the point I'm making and the article is making. We need collective action with government solutions too. Otherwise people will buy old cow pastures and level new growth to build their own solar farms. Guy bought the land and made the investment, that's market forces at work.

Moderate

[HoarfrostHubb]

Put em up over golf courses and cemeteries.   Biggest wastes of space out there. Lol. 

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, HoarfrostHubb said:

Put em up over golf courses and cemeteries.   Biggest wastes of space out there. Lol. 

I agree 100%. Imagine the outcry then when all the elites have to give up there golf courses to save the planet

[OceanStWx]

4 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

My last comment,  all those replies from people on their 1000 dollar smart phones made by sweat shops in China. Like you really care. If that shames you so be it.

Ah yes, a classic. Because we participate in society we can't also want to improve it.

[Sugarloaf1989]

4 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Put em up over golf courses and cemeteries.   Biggest wastes of space out there. Lol. 

In Germany, you're only allowed to have a family member buried for a limited amount of time, before disinterment and cremation. I remember when my uncle passed away in Germany, he wanted cremation partly for this reason.

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, OceanStWx said:

Ah yes, a classic. Because we participate in society we can't also want to improve it.

Classic want your cake and eat it too. God forbid you sacrifice to improve it. Of course we want to improve it but don't act like you are on a higher moral ground 

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, Ginx snewx said:

Classic want your cake and eat it too. God forbid you sacrifice to improve it. Of course we want to improve it but don't act like you are on a higher moral ground 

Because I use a cellphone? Who exactly is the extremist here?

[CoastalWx]

What happens when your well has e-coli because of your neighbors doggie doo? The environment impacts from that should be examined. 

[Bostonseminole]

3 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Because I use a cellphone? Who exactly is the extremist here?

flip phone?

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

What happens when your well has e-coli because of your neighbors doggie doo? The environment impacts from that should be examined. 

250 foot deep well,  dougie do picked up 2 times a day. Try again. What happens when your diapers end up in Boston Harbor