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November 2019 discussion


weathafella
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51 minutes ago, SophieG said:

hopefully everyone sees it now. models are a great tool, but you have to look at the "weather" too...things seem to average out over time, sans the big anomalies. Everyone is data driven now, sometimes it really is that simple. 

The PNA goes negative for about 3 days next week. That’s cute you quoted something from 11/10.

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58 minutes ago, SophieG said:

hopefully everyone sees it now. models are a great tool, but you have to look at the "weather" too...things seem to average out over time, sans the big anomalies. Everyone is data driven now, sometimes it really is that simple. 

Ah, the “weather”. Just gotta have that ‘feeling’, that’s all. Toss the data, make forecasting great again. 

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4 minutes ago, dmillz25 said:

Sleeting here in NYC to let you guys know

Seems like a good sign. Depending upon the model you believe they show almost everything falling from the sky:  from the Catskills up to here when it starts in the early morning hours. Things are pretty isothermal under the advancing band it seems and not far from 0C. Still only high clouds here have allowed most rural areas (away from inferno KALB) to fall into the 25-30 range. 

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3 hours ago, powderfreak said:

From a few storms we’ve had to track so far, my biggest concern is the lack of consistency and it seems like if 1 models shift, they all do.  I feel like we used to see more stepwise shifts vs windshield wiper flips back and forth.  

And the more interesting part to me is that all the models seem to be ingesting the same data that is causing some big swings.  Like all the sudden at 18z the models yesterday went apeshit amped up...but it’s not like just the NAM did it or something.  They all did and the Euro was probably the worst of them all shoving 1-2” QPF to Canada.  

So they initialized something that made them go nuts for a couple runs.  Then 12 hours later initialized something that made them go “oh whoops, back to the starting point.”  

Going to be a long winter of models, ha.  I feel like they all just follow each other around, when in the past it would be a bigger spread but those models would be more consistent in their respective camps....if that makes sense.  Like the Euro or GFS or NAM would disagree in a big way and hold that position for several runs.  Now they all flip back and forth with whatever data they initialize with.

That's very true and I agree completely. I remember we used to see models establish in 2-3 camps, they'd persist for several runs, then one caved to the other and we'd have some sort of consensus - most of my discussions would be something along the lines of "the NAM caved to the Euro". Now over the last couple seasons it seems like we get consensus much faster (4-5 days out even) and then lose it several times as the models become much more sensitive to variations in data. I'm sure we'll adapt and become less trusting with time, but it definitely takes some getting used to for forecasting.

My unscientific hunch from a data science perspective is that higher resolution and more frequent panels is making things more sensitive and compounding errors, but I don't have anything to back that up. Has more sampling data been added over the last couple of years? That could explain things as well to an extent, but I don't believe there have been expansions? Take it all with a grain of salt because I don't really know the details of how models work behind the scenes, but interesting to think about for sure.

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16 minutes ago, Logan11 said:

Seems like a good sign. Depending upon the model you believe they show almost everything falling from the sky:  from the Catskills up to here when it starts in the early morning hours. Things are pretty isothermal under the advancing band it seems and not far from 0C. Still only high clouds here have allowed most rural areas (away from inferno KALB) to fall into the 25-30 range. 

Seems like a sign that models were to far NW with there track and are still adjusting SE.

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2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I think further NW is better

I think N Conway NH to Rangely ME are the only real favorable places to be.  It wouldn't surprise me to see no accumulations S of Lakes Region of NH.  This storm will be too far NE before the necessary combination dynamics come together.  850 temps on the mesos don't get there until the heaviest precipitation is cruising out of here. 

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Just now, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I think N Conway NH to Rangely ME are the only real favorable places to be.  It wouldn't surprise me to see no accumulations S of Lakes Region of NH.  This storm will be too far NE before the necessary combination dynamics come together.  850 temps on the mesos don't get there until the heaviest precipitation is cruising out of here. 

While I think the clown maps are mostly a joke, they can be instructive for trends I think. And the fact that the bigger snow totals don't start popping until it's in the CAR CWA tell me we may have mixing issues in the GYX area. 

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5 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

While I think the clown maps are mostly a joke, they can be instructive for trends I think. And the fact that the bigger snow totals don't start popping until it's in the CAR CWA tell me we may have mixing issues in the GYX area. 

Today's trends have not been favorable in track, precipitation, mid-level temps and unrealistic weenie enthusiasm.  Sleet in NYC right now does not equate to better chance of anyone is SNE seeing a flip to snow in the morning. 

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GFS seems to be trying to make it a more compact system. 

Given that the track difference between it and the Euro is not that large, the placement of mid level forcing sure is wildly different. Euro is practically in Canada, GFS hugs just inland from the coast. I'd think a blend of that is closer to reality. 

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Just now, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Today's trends have not been favorable in track, precipitation, mid-level temps and unrealistic weenie enthusiasm.  Sleet in NYC right now does not equate to better chance of anyone is SNE seeing a flip to snow in the morning. 

It does mean a larger area of advisories for trace freezing rain. :(

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6 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I think N Conway NH to Rangely ME are the only real favorable places to be.  It wouldn't surprise me to see no accumulations S of Lakes Region of NH.  This storm will be too far NE before the necessary combination dynamics come together.  850 temps on the mesos don't get there until the heaviest precipitation is cruising out of here. 

North Conway is toast imo 

i want some western longitude on this one .

someone NW of Albany to Stratton/Killington looks best but 2 far for me today. 

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