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November 2019 discussion


weathafella
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47 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I don’t see any signs of pattern breakdown either. The end of the EPS look pretty mice with a +PNA. A +NAO , but some signs of a weak ridge maybe in NE Greenland. The big takeaway to me is that the Pacific still looks good. 

While that’s certainly encouraging, Here’s the problem...we are wasting this very nice pattern in early to mid November, when climo is still rather hostile for most of us.  If it came a few weeks from now, we’d probably be faring much better.  
 

But unfortunately we can only take what’s given us, when it’s given us.
 

But as I said, it is Encouraging nonetheless.  We take. 

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1 minute ago, WinterWolf said:

While that’s certainly encouraging, Here’s the problem...we are wasting this very nice pattern in early to mid November, when climo is still rather hostile for most of us.  If it came a few weeks from now, we’d probably be faring much better.  
 

But unfortunately we can only take what’s given us, when it’s given us.
 

But as I said, it is Encouraging nonetheless.  We take. 

I think you said it. Early to mid November. I think people don’t understand how hard that is. You have a better chance getting snow in late March. So to me, I don’t have the angst. 

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4 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Given that it’s not a stemwinder of a low, we may have to watch nrn ORH county for a push of cold air to the SSW. I’m not saying the NAM is right, but the idea of the cold sagging south into this area is probably something to watch.

NAM has a period of ZR or FZDZ before the snow over the interior....I could def see some icing issues even in a bit of a warmer solution in the midlevels because with the exception of the euro, the sfc low is tracking to the southeast. Euro basically tracks it overhead. 

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I've been tussling with the hypothesis that a +PNA is not enough in and among itself..

I've noticed this tendency over the recent two decades ... getting more coherent with each passing cold season, where without the -EPO, you shut off and flip violently above normal. We've entered a one-or-the-other as a longer termed, multi-seasonal tendency.

We seem to be entering, or are in, a new paradigm, ..most likely associated with the dreaded eye-roller climate change, where it's all or nothing. We have to have the ridge tapping the arctic air mass and delivering en masse/loading, or the expanded HC reasserts its self, and we have a rather extreme continental roll-out of cold replaced with above normals - that behavior, overall, is becoming more common place in cold seasons.  

That said ...we have been blessed at mid latitudes of the continent, in that the Pacific Basin bulge ( and this goes back to primitive climate model predictions from the late 1980s-'90s ) is unrelenting, do to the [ theorized ] SST anomalies that are relatively above normal, regardless of specific PDO state.  That bulge is turning the flow NW in Canada, .. more frequencies of -EPOs to ironically cloak the fact that without said EPO ...you're flipping the other way.  In other words, +PNA's with less arctic tapping are warmer patterns than they were 50 years ago. Sorry folks ..you gotta start modulating this shit into your ideas about your winter outlooks or they're meaningless, particularly when there are papers explaining the HC expansion and the empirically storm track repositioning and changes to the larger scale circulation eddies because of it. 

But I digress... In any case, you can see it on the D10 Euro.  The EPO has [ perhaps only temporarily ] abated, and the entire domain S of ~ the 50th parallel across the continent, goes above normal at 850 mb pretty quickly, despite the western mid latitude +PNA attributing to +PNAP look. 

Later on in the cold season a +PNA alone would be more capable of substantively maintaining a cold source but ... this early, with limited snow pack/cryosphere over Canada, "home grown" cold air masses are a struggle.

By the way .. I'm not sure I buy it the EPO is going away per the Euro's extended, just using that as an example of how mid latitudes have more trouble than decades ago with 'cold in the bank.'   We got to more and more so be in a reloading constancy ...which also unfortunately means a higher compression/N/stram dominant pattern and velocity saturation ...introducing other headaches.

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20 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

NAM has a period of ZR or FZDZ before the snow over the interior....I could def see some icing issues even in a bit of a warmer solution in the midlevels because with the exception of the euro, the sfc low is tracking to the southeast. Euro basically tracks it overhead. 

The NAM is a nice crown on the rocks solution. 1-3” and then the arctic hounds come in. I don’t expect that, but the thought of the very idea of a nice glass of your favorite liquor with white ground and temps plummeting is certainly appealing.  

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33 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I think you said it. Early to mid November. I think people don’t understand how hard that is. You have a better chance getting snow in late March. So to me, I don’t have the angst. 

Oh I get it and agree with you completely.  That’s why I’m a little uncomfortable with such a decent look this early on...cuz it will most likely be wasted on the poor climo for snow, that is SNE in Early/mid November. 

 

But maybe it’ll(This pattern) repeat again for the heart of winter?  
 

And Let’s hope the NAM is possibly on to something here ...lol. 

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5 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

Oh I get it and agree with you completely.  That’s why I’m a little uncomfortable with such a decent look this early on...cuz it will most likely be wasted on the poor climo for snow, that is SNE in Early/mid November. 

 

But maybe it’ll(This pattern) repeat again for the heart of winter?  
 

And Let’s hope the NAM is possibly on to something here ...lol. 

Nam , gfs and icon =)

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3 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

Oh I get it and agree with you completely.  That’s why I’m a little uncomfortable with such a decent look this early on...cuz it will most likely be wasted on the poor climo for snow, that is SNE in Early/mid November. 

 

But maybe it’ll(This pattern) repeat again for the heart of winter?  
 

And Let’s hope the NAM is possibly on to something here ...lol. 

Oh I see what you meant. Well, I’d rather see something favorable in November. If I looked out long range and saw the Death Star setup near AK, I’d be A little concerned. That’s not to say December could have that...still could. However, I don’t see many signs of anything too ominous regarding that. I’m fact, the massive Scandinavia blocking could be a harbinger the getting a -NAO. That’s happened in the past. 

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