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Mid October 2019 Bombogensis Coastal


Ginx snewx
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I think you always have to question the Nam's output though in these types of systems where it try's to handle or mishandle's the convection and always seems to struggle to where to locate the slp as it has spurious spokes of voticties rotating around where it thinks the slp should be located, Right now, I would favor something a little more tracking to the east and not as amped as the Nam portrays.

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6 minutes ago, DotRat_Wx said:

I don't buy any of this right now. Sell. Let's see that development before the NAM lures the entire board and region into thinking there is a mini hurricane on the way. 

This could end up being a glorified squall line of 40 mph winds, a few downed limbs and wires. Not enough evidence of a larger event yet. 

Gfs is pretty close

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36 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

I dunno, maybe I’m oversimplifying this, but to me the whole problem gets reduced to this: either we see nascent signs of a tropical disturbance develop off the SE coast today, or we don’t. If it’s the latter, the less amped 0z/6z euro-esque solution is the most likely outcome.

I think it really is that simple. This jet structure does not favor significant low pressure development off the SE coast. 

1485313613_ScreenShot2019-10-15at12_20_11PM.thumb.png.aa35a8b8d0513ec9f6cb4ac899cd2461.png

Agree w/ Scott that the RGEM makes the most sense synoptically.

 

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GFS brushes the Cape and islands with a 50-60 kt 925 jet. By the time this really gets going it's legit already east of SNE. The Cape will likely see some decent wind gusts, but this is also going to be short duration wind episode...unless you want to count having the strong WNW/NW gusts Thursday as well. 

The rainfall rates will be the most impressive aspect of this event really...thankfully this is the fast mover it is, but the rain rates under the strongest lift are going to be pretty ridiculous. Someone could pop an inch in like 20-minutes lol

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56 minutes ago, jbenedet said:

I dunno, maybe I’m oversimplifying this, but to me the whole problem gets reduced to this: either we see nascent signs of a tropical disturbance develop off the SE coast today, or we don’t. If it’s the latter, the less amped 0z/6z euro-esque solution is the most likely outcome.

I tend to agree here re outside <-- inward influencing ..yeah. 

On a more globular philosophical level, whether we are infusing TC's or phantom convectively driven faux vorticity packets ... the end result is the same:  the modeled depiction of the system gets a boost in either case.   Obviously the convective feedback is the less likely of the two, and as to the other ... if we don't see some sort of TC detonation and pretty darn soon than ( I feel ) it is more likely the Euro'esque runs will succeed. 

 

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Perhaps this is incorrect, but this is what it appears with regards to the "dual lows" at the surface. 

The wave which comes inland looks like the main wave which develops along the cold front. The secondary low looks to be the one which forms from the modeled SE convection. This low then completely blows up due to 1) phasing with the vigorous s/w energy with the trough and looks like enhancement from the jet max surrounding the base of the upper trough. This outcome then completely covers the solution with puke.

It looks like the LLJ with the frontal wave is nothing out of the ordinary...but with what happens b/c of that other low and the significant strengthening which occurs you get a response in the LLJ to go wild...forgetting even the wind potential this then increase theta-e advection, moisture transport, and PWAT values into the region...add extra lift and extra moisture and the response is bonkers QPF. 

Naturally, as a low develops and strengthens along the front, you'll get a LLJ increase, however, the big question here is what is the driving point behind the strengthening of the frontal wave? Going to rule out dynamics here based on the structure of the ULJ and MLJ...so the next explanation would be a tightening thermal gradient...but is it possible this is being enhanced b/c of that secondary low? 

 

image.png.784344c0a3fdcf0c27fc039ee6e51dbe.png

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Paul, Correct me if i'm wrong, But I think your missing the primary low over western NY that transfers to the secondary over SNE and then has that blob of convection off to the SE over the atlantic specifically on the NAM as the model can't resolve where it wants to develop the secondary SLP until it consolidates it further downstream into one slp.

image.png.c40e9f52eac684592c10107e548e224f.png

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10 minutes ago, dryslot said:

Paul, Correct me if i'm wrong, But I think your missing the primary low over western NY that transfers to the secondary over SNE and then has that blob of convection off to the SE over the atlantic specifically on the NAM as the model can't resolve where it wants to develop the secondary SLP until it consolidates it further downstream into one slp.

image.png.c40e9f52eac684592c10107e548e224f.png

What I was doing was trying to follow the main pieces of vort energy along with SLP maps. From doing this that's how I derived what I mentioned above. You do have that main primary low over NYS which then seems to weaken ("transfer energy" to the coast)...which may be a product of occlusion. 

Speaking of transferring of energy to the coast I forgot what class it was but we discussed this briefly one day and the professor showed us some paper or something...anyways basically discussed how the concept of energy transfer (from low to the next across the east coast) is not actually correct. 

But if you sort of track that sfc low (which I highlighted as frontal wave or whatever) it seems to develop (defining this when a closed contour appears) right along the cold front. Obviously this is nothing new with fronts and I'm sure this gets enhanced by the anomalous upper-trough, but I think the entire system gets injected with steroids with what it does with this s/w energy that rides up the coast...seems like that stuff goes crazy when it interacts with the negative tilt and the jet streak rounds the base of the trough. 

This is too complex lol 

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