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October 2019 General Discussion


Hoosier
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12 minutes ago, IWXwx said:

Thanks for posting that. I just looked at the surface winds on the model. (I was looking at Tropical Tidbits, which doesn't offer the 925 mb map).   It does depict a pocket of stronger surface winds just south/south east of the low, especially as it bottoms out, but the 10 meter map doesn't show those winds mixing as readily to the surface (only 25-30 mph) as it moves into northern IN/IL and pressures begin to rise.

That is sustained though.  Would certainly have a period of stronger gusts in the RGEM scenario... if it's right. 

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Hoosier, you nailed it. The ILX AFD isn't out yet.

IWX-

LOOKING FURTHER AT 
THE GUST POTENTIAL, ENDED UP RAISING GUSTS SAT NIGHT/SUN AM WITH 
STRONG PRESSURE RISE/FALL COUPLET MOVING THROUGH AND MOMENTUM 
TRANSFER INDICATING BETTER WINDS AND LOW LEVEL INVERSION ON 
SOUNDINGS LOOKS A LITTLE WEAKER THAN ORIGINALLY PROGGED. WOULDN'T 
BE SURPRISED TO SEE GUSTS ABOVE 35 MPH AT TIMES, ESPECIALLY AT THE
LAKE, BUT IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE ALONG/EAST OF I-69.

LOT-

ASIDE FROM THE MODERATE TO HEAVY RAIN THREAT FROM THIS STORM, WE 
WILL ALSO HAVE TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE WINDS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS 
DEEPENING AREA OF LOW PRESSURE. THIS IS ESPECIALLY THE CASE OVER 
LAKE MICHIGAN, DUE TO THE ONSHORE COMPONENT. SOME MODEL GUIDANCE 
SUGGESTS THAT THE SURFACE LOW COULD DEEP DOWN INTO THE LOWER 990S
MB SUNDAY EVENING. WINDS ARE LIKELY TO INCREASE OUT OF THE EAST- 
NORTHEAST ON SATURDAY AS THE SURFACE LOW APPROACHES. WITH THE 
POTENTIAL FOR A PERIOD OF EASTERLY WINDS UP AROUND 30 KT LATER IN
THE DAY, WE COULD HAVE WAVES ON THE LAKE INCREASE TO IN EXCESS OF
6' FOR A PERIOD, WHICH COULD INCREASE THE THREAT FOR SOME MINOR 
LAKE SHORE FLOODING OVER THE IL SHORES.

IND-

IN ADDITION TO THE RAIN, WINDS WILL GUST TO 30-40 MPH WITH GOOD 
PRESSURE GRADIENT FORCES AND STRONG WINDS ALOFT IN PLAY AS THE 
SYSTEM PASSES THROUGH. IF WINDS ALOFT MIX DOWN BETTER THAN 
ANTICIPATED, ISOLATED WIND GUSTS IN EXCESS OF 45 MPH ARE POSSIBLE 
AND A WIND ADVISORY MAY BE NEEDED IN A FUTURE FORECAST PACKAGE TO 
ACCOUNT FOR THE POSSIBILITY. 
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1 hour ago, IWXwx said:

Hoosier, you nailed it. The ILX AFD isn't out yet.

IWX-


LOOKING FURTHER AT 
THE GUST POTENTIAL, ENDED UP RAISING GUSTS SAT NIGHT/SUN AM WITH 
STRONG PRESSURE RISE/FALL COUPLET MOVING THROUGH AND MOMENTUM 
TRANSFER INDICATING BETTER WINDS AND LOW LEVEL INVERSION ON 
SOUNDINGS LOOKS A LITTLE WEAKER THAN ORIGINALLY PROGGED. WOULDN'T 
BE SURPRISED TO SEE GUSTS ABOVE 35 MPH AT TIMES, ESPECIALLY AT THE
LAKE, BUT IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE ALONG/EAST OF I-69.

LOT-


ASIDE FROM THE MODERATE TO HEAVY RAIN THREAT FROM THIS STORM, WE 
WILL ALSO HAVE TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE WINDS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS 
DEEPENING AREA OF LOW PRESSURE. THIS IS ESPECIALLY THE CASE OVER 
LAKE MICHIGAN, DUE TO THE ONSHORE COMPONENT. SOME MODEL GUIDANCE 
SUGGESTS THAT THE SURFACE LOW COULD DEEP DOWN INTO THE LOWER 990S
MB SUNDAY EVENING. WINDS ARE LIKELY TO INCREASE OUT OF THE EAST- 
NORTHEAST ON SATURDAY AS THE SURFACE LOW APPROACHES. WITH THE 
POTENTIAL FOR A PERIOD OF EASTERLY WINDS UP AROUND 30 KT LATER IN
THE DAY, WE COULD HAVE WAVES ON THE LAKE INCREASE TO IN EXCESS OF
6' FOR A PERIOD, WHICH COULD INCREASE THE THREAT FOR SOME MINOR 
LAKE SHORE FLOODING OVER THE IL SHORES.

IND-


IN ADDITION TO THE RAIN, WINDS WILL GUST TO 30-40 MPH WITH GOOD 
PRESSURE GRADIENT FORCES AND STRONG WINDS ALOFT IN PLAY AS THE 
SYSTEM PASSES THROUGH. IF WINDS ALOFT MIX DOWN BETTER THAN 
ANTICIPATED, ISOLATED WIND GUSTS IN EXCESS OF 45 MPH ARE POSSIBLE 
AND A WIND ADVISORY MAY BE NEEDED IN A FUTURE FORECAST PACKAGE TO 
ACCOUNT FOR THE POSSIBILITY. 

Well we'll see.  Winds could still be underplayed if the deeper models verify, but it's a wait and see game.

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19 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

The 18z HWRF goes crazy.  Gets down to at least 981 mb (with tight gradient) but run is still coming in.  Big wind problems if that verifies.  

 

13 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

It is good with tropical systems but will add the disclaimer that I'm not sure how it performs with transitioned systems.

hwrf_mslp_wind_17L_13.thumb.png.9a791d79cbc313ac05850e0ceca1f54a.png

hwrf_mslp_uv850_17L_13.thumb.png.ed7d344d6b91e9a6ad114d81ff5a3845.png

 

 

:weenie::weenie::weenie:

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Based on my research of tropical remnants in LAF that I did years ago, I can't recall an instance of something that deep in the area, so yeah, it makes it easy to bet against.  Even Ike only got down to about 988 mb while in Indiana... of course that had been a hurricane before that and I am not comparing this setup to Ike.

We don't get regular practice with this kind of thing in the Midwest... a tropical system being ingested by a negatively tilting trough and the whole thing hauling a**, but intuitively speaking, something toward the deeper outcomes (excluding HWRF) makes sense to me. 

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By the way, I just checked the forecast PW value during the rainstorm, for Detroit. That is a value 1.45."  This would be at about the general maximum for this time of year for the DTX sounding location (see SPC sounding climatology.) The average for this time of year would be 0.57."

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46 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

This whole system reminds me of a warm version of Dec 15, 1987. Track seems similar, peaking out about the same region. IF only twas winter..sigh

Let's hope we don't burn up all the good systems now. This pattern would be absolutely spectacular in a month or later from now.

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Can't rule out a low end/conditional severe/tornado threat later this afternoon and evening out ahead of the surface low.  SPC doesn't have it outlooked and I don't blame them but a tongue of modest instability does swing through in the midst of strong shear profiles.  Lapse rates aloft are garbage so any instability is going to have to be more advective driven.  Guidance does break out showers/storms in the dry slot. 

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Lowest pressure I can find is 998.5 in Tupelo, MS.  If you check out radar, you can actually see the remnant circulation down there now just northwest of Tupelo.

Possible that pressure is lower in between observation locations, but a number of models had it down to 993-995 at 1 pm central which may not verify. 

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Might have a bit of a meh outcome around here with heaviest band of rain west and strongest winds south.  Updated LOT afd mentioned the possibility of a period of 50+ mph winds in the southern cwa but no wind advisory yet.
We were very open to issuing a wind advisory for southern CWA but ILX, IND and IWX still preferred to hold off. Given the run to run consistency of the HRRR for a corridor of 40-50+kt gusts tonight, I was surprised the neighbors didn't want to issue an advisory. Could very well have high wind warning type impacts if the HRRR comes to fruition. 18z RAP has a large area of 50+ kt winds at 925 mb spreading across central IL and IN. Forecast soundings suggest that there will be sufficient mixing to tap into the high winds aloft, with cold advection and very strong pressure rises immediately following the surface low.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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I took this picture of the neighbor's sycamore tree because I thought that was Indiana's state tree. Come to find out that the tulip tree is the state tree not the sycamore. The sycamore is on the state seal though. Regardless, here is how muted the colors are here...

 

7V2A7854.thumb.JPG.c7947b38748639e13addaa908ca0d114.JPG

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3 hours ago, bowtie` said:

I took this picture of the neighbor's sycamore tree because I thought that was Indiana's state tree. Come to find out that the tulip tree is the state tree not the sycamore. The sycamore is on the state seal though. Regardless, here is how muted the colors are here...

 

7V2A7854.thumb.JPG.c7947b38748639e13addaa908ca0d114.JPG

I've got a huge sugar maple in my yard and that thing is just fabulous every fall with flaming red and bright fire orange (I also tap it for syrup).  This is the first year in the 7 years I've been here that its not stood out.  Still nice but definitely not up to it's normal grandeur.  I've noticed also  that the oaks and sycamores around here aren't performing at all.  Even the redbuds and tulips are going straight to brown.   There are patches of maples, especially up around the Wabash river valley that are putting on a show.  But for the most part  this fall isnt up to Bob Ross's standards :arrowhead:

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