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September Weather Discussion 2019


dryslot
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9 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

I don't "want" 80 in October....I just said I'd take it over 49F highs and scraping frost off my windshield every morning. Luckily we're not getting a lot of 80F in October...maybe 1 day?

Ideally, give me a high of 67-68F with lows in the upper 40s...that's nice crisp fall weather and it's easy to be outside in that.

 

 

I'll take colder weather as soon as it manifests some snow chances. So by Halloween and beyond it's fine to have real cold shots....though for more real snow, T-day is the cutoff. The Halloween-T-day period is usually the "first flakes" novelty and maybe a light accumulating event on car windshields and mulch.

I got a garage.

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48 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Native American summer

Late October is the perfect time for non-normal wx. Either warm so you get those 65-70F days or cold so you can have a snow chance/first flakes. 

Normal at the end of October is garbage. Like 50-52F highs and near freezing lows. No thanks. 

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14 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Just noticed the GFS is only mixing up to H9 on Saturday despite sun and decent SW flow. I know we have some WAA coming in over the top, but my hunch is we mix higher than what it's trying to spit out. I'd bump those MOS numbers at least 5F which would push BDL to 85+.

90 locked 

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22 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Just noticed the GFS is only mixing up to H9 on Saturday despite sun and decent SW flow. I know we have some WAA coming in over the top, but my hunch is we mix higher than what it's trying to spit out. I'd bump those MOS numbers at least 5F which would push BDL to 85+.

Yeah I start getting concerned sometimes this time of year with mixing. 80.2 here today. Maybe 85 here Saturday I think. 

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32 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Late October is the perfect time for non-normal wx. Either warm so you get those 65-70F days or cold so you can have a snow chance/first flakes. 

Normal at the end of October is garbage. Like 50-52F highs and near freezing lows. No thanks. 

Last fall was about as ideal as it gets, IMO.  September torch and the first half of October was a torch through 10/12... including days of +19, +22, and +17 departures.

But then the switch was flipped as 16 of the last 19 days of last October were below normal (to much below normal) with several days of snow in the air (and even accumulations down here in the valley).  That continued with record mountain snows in November (deepest Mansfield depth ever recorded in November) and steady snow cover beginning November 12th in the valley.

But to your point, going torch until mid-October is great for outdoor recreation, but then rip the band aid off and go straight to snow temps the second half of October.  We went from highs around 80F on October 10th, to highs in the 30s on the 18th.  One week is all it took to go from summer to snow last year.

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As an aside, I forgot how much of an absolute furnace October 2017 was.

MVL was +6.8 that month... only 5 days below normal with the lowest being -5.  Every other day was an absolute torch, with 10 days of double digit positive departures, maxing at a day of +23.

Those numbers are incredible and it's crazy that I didn't even remember it being that hot.  But if it isn't going to snow, those endless 60s and 70s don't look that bad.

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38 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Last fall was about as ideal as it gets, IMO.  September torch and the first half of October was a torch through 10/12... including days of +19, +22, and +17 departures.

But then the switch was flipped as 16 of the last 19 days of last October were below normal (to much below normal) with several days of snow in the air (and even accumulations down here in the valley).  That continued with record mountain snows in November (deepest Mansfield depth ever recorded in November) and steady snow cover beginning November 12th in the valley.

But to your point, going torch until mid-October is great for outdoor recreation, but then rip the band aid off and go straight to snow temps the second half of October.  We went from highs around 80F on October 10th, to highs in the 30s on the 18th.  One week is all it took to go from summer to snow last year.

Agreed. Only caveat is I had my best powder days up north early in the season and it set the bar so high. November was insanely good by any New England standards. Everything after that was hit or miss for me. 

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5 hours ago, weatherwiz said:

Well you're in VT...

Again it's all relative to where people live. For so many years the whole back-and-forth argument between folks that live farther south and folks that live further north with regards to "torch" and "warmth" is just ridiculous...and in fact the word "torch" is stupid to begin with. 

Indeed your points are well taken wiz, as we know up here in the mountains of NNE we’re potentially multiple climate zones away from the valleys of SNE.  Even relative to our normals though, one day of reaching 70 F in September seems… unremarkable.

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8 hours ago, J.Spin said:

Indeed your points are well taken wiz, as we know up here in the mountains of NNE we’re potentially multiple climate zones away from the valleys of SNE.  Even relative to our normals though, one day of reaching 70 F in September seems… unremarkable.

I miss the mountains of VT :(

A friend of mine and his family have this cabin right outside of Westminster West...I didn't get to go this summer but the view from his cabin is breathtaking. 

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Major props goes out to the NWS (well anyone who forecasts) forecasters out west (like CO, WY, MT, ID) when it comes to forecasting snow totals...like HTF do they do it? Especially with regards to the sharp elevation changes and just knowing terrain and its influences. 

It can't be easy to derive a map like this. It would be awesome to learn how to forecast snowfall across these places. 

WeatherStory1.png?47972890cef2513a8f2d7913a4c814cc

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29 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

Major props goes out to the NWS (well anyone who forecasts) forecasters out west (like CO, WY, MT, ID) when it comes to forecasting snow totals...like HTF do they do it? Especially with regards to the sharp elevation changes and just knowing terrain and its influences. 

It can't be easy to derive a map like this. It would be awesome to learn how to forecast snowfall across these places. 

WeatherStory1.png?47972890cef2513a8f2d7913a4c814cc

Mostly automated the same way point and click is. NWS can obviously tweak specific grid points, but a computer does most of the work.

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Just now, snowman21 said:

Mostly automated the same way point and click is. NWS can obviously tweak specific grid points, but a computer does most of the work.

I've always been extremely curious about how this works. Perhaps @OceanStWx has gone into great depth about this before, but when it comes to these snow map, if they are all computer generated with human tweaks, how exactly are they derived? Is it a blend of numerous forecast models, an in-house model, one particular model? And what algorithms are used in them...or are they just derived from the model snowfall algorithms (like 10:1 ratio or Kucheria). But then with the human tweaking...across this region that can't be particularly easy, especially if you have little experience/knowledge of the terrain and geographical influences. 

 

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