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September Weather Discussion 2019


dryslot
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24 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

A day here and you act like it's been 90 for days and days nobody said 90 is COC no one. But interesting that as that soared to 90 DPs dropped to the 50s. Then as the front approached the DPs climbed again. Go outside its absolutely gorgeous out here. Drying out with a nice breeze. 

Dews are dropping like his post count did over the last 10 days.

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1 hour ago, weatherwiz said:

You know what I'm curious about...if the loading pattern for the AO is defined by 1000mb SLP why are 500 height anomaly/height fields used to characterize the sign/strength of the AO?

anyways...looking at the projected SLP anomalies/500mb height anomalies...I'm not entirely sure the structure of the +AO would just equate to big warmth up to our latitudes. I'm assuming this projected index is being driven by the anomalously low SLP anomalies around Greenland and extending into eastern Canada...southward displaced SLP anomalies try extending to our latitudes, but it is a big fight with the southern ridge.  You also have a -PNA signal which is going to try and pump up the heights...it's almost like the AO  signal is so strong/displaced that it actually prevents warmth from sustaining into October...somewhat of a similar fashion to where extremely -NAO's which are south displaced yields above-average heights poking into NNE 

You're top question is a loaded one... Empirical Orthogonal Functions ( principle component analysis in statistics ) post using diagonal cross-sectional analsysis are used to create a polynomial expression:  Example  (X+1)(X+1)   ... or,    (x+1)2     such that Y =   x2 + 2x + 1   

Now that y'all have a popcycle headache my work is complete...muah haha.   Environmental problem solving does not end up  with such easily determinable roots, however..  Solving for X requires other techniques ...usually Quadratic/"completion of the square"... blah blah

I mean I'm paraphrasing through this.. .You should look up EOF derivatives and learn about them... It's how all Teleconnectors are daily derived.   

What's paramount is what CDC vs CPC do in their particular methods differently, though still are both EOF reliant. 

CDC uses the lower level wind flux anomalies at their grid points.  The CPC uses the mid level ( H500 ) geopotential heights at there's. 

When you ask the question: "You know what I'm curious about...if the loading pattern for the AO is defined by 1000mb SLP why are 500 height anomaly/height fields used to characterize the sign/strength of the AO?" there really isn't much difference.   

You didn't ask for the difference between CDC and CPC ...but I thought I'd take you through that so you'd understand that the mid level geopotential deviations (CPC) drive the surface wind anomalies - those two are inextricably linked via mass-conservation kinematics.  So, saying the loading the pattern of the AO ( typically the 1000 mb wind flux anomalies ) is actually also an inference of the -AO (blocking at high latitudes) causing the lower level fluxes to take place.  So yeah ... 500 mb height anomalies at CPC are used/available to the public ( not even sure if the CDC calculates the AO actually ..huh interesting ) but if the AO is negative, cold loading into and below the 60th parallel is increasing. 

As an aside, it's why the EPO and NAO are important ... because those indices may say something about where a -AO is setting up conveyors.  You sort of hit at this a bit in our longer second paragraph and I like that approach. It's not enough to just assume (-)(+) AO will lead to x-y-z...  

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

A day here and you act like it's been 90 for days and days nobody said 90 is COC no one. But interesting that as that soared to 90 DPs dropped to the 50s. Then as the front approached the DPs climbed again. Go outside its absolutely gorgeous out here. Drying out with a nice breeze. 

It's a near to record-setting inferno and we all are enjoying it

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1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

Liar. If it were cold with a deformation dandy you'd be feverishly pressing that button. It's a big decision between fresh eggs or fresh snow. 

No lie on those monthlies. If you want to give me deformation delight I'll take some, but give me the warmer temps.

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1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

Liar. If it were cold with a deformation dandy you'd be feverishly pressing that button. It's a big decision between fresh eggs or fresh snow. 

 

5 minutes ago, dendrite said:

No lie on those monthlies. If you want to give me deformation delight I'll take some, but give me the warmer temps.

Although...

image.png

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5 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Oh c'mon. Like we do not know what you'll press.  :weenie: 

I've changed man. I like the novelty of record breaking cold, but I've gotten too much into plants and my birds. But whatever the weather is, it is....not going to spin it like wxhype. I choose the more tolerable weather, but if snowy and cold happens I'll find a way to enjoy that too. I'm a weather lover too. It's just that weather is lower on my priority list whereas it used to be the only thing on my list.

Anyway, back to the torch looking pattern.

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8 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Oh c'mon. Like we do not know what you'll press.  :weenie: 

Lol, yeah he's not fooling anyone. 120 means you almost certainly got something pretty huge....or if you didn't, it means you have an epic pack from a ton of rapid-fire moderately heavy events like '07-'08.

 

Maybe if the button said 80 or 90" instead of 120", we'd believe him.

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Just now, ORH_wxman said:

Lol, yeah he's not fooling anyone. 120 means you almost certainly got something pretty huge....or if you didn't, it means you have an epic pack from a ton of rapid-fire moderately heavy events like '07-'08.

 

Maybe if the button said 80 or 90" instead of 120", we'd believe him.

90" is the new climo. I need something slightly above average like 120" to make me waver.

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8 minutes ago, dendrite said:

I've changed man. I like the novelty of record breaking cold, but I've gotten too much into plants and my birds. But whatever the weather is, it is....not going to spin it like wxhype. I choose the more tolerable weather, but if snowy and cold happens I'll find a way to enjoy that too. I'm a weather lover too. It's just that weather is lower on my priority list whereas it used to be the only thing on my list.

Anyway, back to the torch looking pattern.

Welcome to home ownership adulthood 

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49 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

You're top question is a loaded one... Empirical Orthogonal Functions ( principle component analysis in statistics ) post using diagonal cross-sectional analsysis are used to create a polynomial expression:  Example  (X+1)(X+1)   ... or,    (x+1)2     such that Y =   x2 + 2x + 1   

Now that y'all have a popcycle headache my work is complete...muah haha.   Environmental problem solving does not end up  with such easily determinable roots, however..  Solving for X requires other techniques ...usually Quadratic/"completion of the square"... blah blah

I mean I'm paraphrasing through this.. .You should look up EOF derivatives and learn about them... It's how all Teleconnectors are daily derived.   

What's paramount is what CDC vs CPC do in their particular methods differently, though still are both EOF reliant. 

CDC uses the lower level wind flux anomalies at their grid points.  The CPC uses the mid level ( H500 ) geopotential heights at there's. 

When you ask the question: "You know what I'm curious about...if the loading pattern for the AO is defined by 1000mb SLP why are 500 height anomaly/height fields used to characterize the sign/strength of the AO?" there really isn't much difference.   

You didn't ask for the difference between CDC and CPC ...but I thought I'd take you through that so you'd understand that the mid level geopotential deviations (CPC) drive the surface wind anomalies - those two are inextricably linked via mass-conservation kinematics.  So, saying the loading the pattern of the AO ( typically the 1000 mb wind flux anomalies ) is actually also an inference of the -AO (blocking at high latitudes) causing the lower level fluxes to take place.  So yeah ... 500 mb height anomalies at CPC are used/available to the public ( not even sure if the CDC calculates the AO actually ..huh interesting ) but if the AO is negative, cold loading into and below the 60th parallel is increasing. 

As an aside, it's why the EPO and NAO are important ... because those indices may say something about where a -AO is setting up conveyors.  You sort of hit at this a bit in our longer second paragraph and I like that approach. It's not enough to just assume (-)(+) AO will lead to x-y-z...  

 

 

 

 

 

This made a ton of sense. I totally forgot that the CDC and CPC use slight variations in some of the methodologies.

I have done some reading up on EOF's but I wish I was way better at math then I am (I still have zero clue how I made it through all the Calc) so I could completely understand even use them. I've always, always wanted to create bi-weekly values...I know at the end of the day the structure and placement of the anomalies are most critical, however, there is value I think in an indexed value. With this I think having a bi-weekly value can maybe provide some more light then an index averaged over a month. I think it will capture better those transitional periods and using the index as a number-visual you can go back and analyze those periods and perhaps be a boost in the research department. 

they do offer daily values and you would think just take the daily values and total up 14 days and divide by 14...but that won't work. I've taken monthly daily values, totaled up, and divided by the days in the month and the value does not equal the monthly reading. 

Anyways I'm not sure if EOF methodology would help in this department or if some sort of standardization needs to be done.  

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58 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Jerry’s swells should be modest but prolonged

His wife approves at 70 years old plus. Jerry is the man. Lunch on the deck, big breezes,  think its destructive sunshine from here on out. Tomorrow adds to the top tenr list. SNE approved cept for the knuckleheads who either want HHH or 50s.

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