Occasional Thoughts on Climate Change

[Typhoon Tip]

On 10/20/2021 at 10:42 AM, LibertyBell said:

its very easy for the fossil fuel cartels to brainwash people in these low information states, some decisions need to be hard wired into the system and beyond the minds of voters and politicians, remember what I said about benevolent dictatorships.

 

Mm   "institutionalized" is the condensed word for that.  

It can't really be one-off triggered ( boy that'd be nice... ) But we've often heard the phrase "institutional racism" ?  

As we all know ..blah blah institutional racism is the systemic operation [society] from a basis of racial constraints. Uh ... in more life- relevant terms, methods in the ways and means and behaviors on the streets to offices and all walks, are built-in rules based upon assumptions handed down through cultural lineage over generations - that's what it means to you and me.

At individual levels ( I think ) the fact that people operate within those inherited social constructs are "unconsciously biased" in their maneuvers and decisions and thoughts, while in collection, turn the gears of communities and country. That's the nuts and bolts of the "institutional racism" motif - even though the individual persons may in fact not harbor any overtly obvious hatred or distrust based upon diversity. It's really "institutional acceptance and tradition" that is the better euphemism and is paramount. 

People really only know what they were raised to know (bear with me - there relevancy to this...) In the moment? There are douce-bag humans that should drop dead - agreed.  But the majority, I don't think so.  They'd be happy to have a diversity to dinner.  Sit next to them in church.  Play on sports teams with them.  Share the international space station.  Collaborate on projects. Just be friends and lovers.  That's not racism. However, by convention further above they are unwittingly complicit. They turn the gears of society using the levers handed down to them, so they are oblivious conventional racists. 

Something of a similar phenomenon seems to be happening with this anti CC.  A counter-culture developed out of an anathema about Climate Change - sort of "racist against the very science of climate change its self," based upon inherited culture motif-assumptions. 

Add in that there is a factor of mentally untenability, just by shear magnificence of the specter - people just really are not very well prepared to process the enormity of what climate change means --> apocalypse ... before even approaching the anthropomorphic causality.  They can't do it.

That takes time .. That can be certainly sped up - usually where there is more at stake, forces pragmatic changes ... adoption of ways and means.  A lot of that comes back to that talking point of "...Climate change does not appeal to the corporeal senses" the same way as picking up a hot handle to an iron skillet.  That stimulus teaches, 'don't do that'     ...      immediately.  And that lesson sticks.  That is a cultural force that does not change in the individual for life - usually... lol.   CC does not have any such advocate.  If "threat" does not (most importantly) adversely appeal to one of the natural, corporeal "USB ports that connect the human brain, and downloads reality"  ( sight, sound, smell, tough and taste ), whatever the message is, is only considered.

So where we've managed since the 1990s when the uh-oh era began:  We completely f'ed up the climate warnings because of the "shimmering example" in diplomatic flair and acumen of the scientific ambit - we came at the above human condition with blazing excoriations in doom when - wait just a second! - according to existential awareness, this has saved relatives from cancer. Extended life in general. So vastly improved quality of life in as little as great great grandparent-ago that we'd almost seem like aliens to our own ancestors. 

Add that to the list of cogs in the catch-22 gears machining our doom ( I suspect... but some days my mood changes - haha).  When the virtuosity and import of knowledge is held back by a stupidity dam of communicative improficiencies ... what's the f'ing use of knowing all the answers?  Sorry, but a lot of a CC denial is on us; it was a defensive narrative formulated for being unconsciously threatened by the 'artless rhetoric' of the earlier messengers.  

Humans are emotional... That aspect is primitive [perhaps], but was always there first - the advent of higher order, emotion compensating reasoning and the ability to shed motifs in lieu of the pith of what is actually being conveyed, fails pretty quickly venturing outside of science ambit - where... the 90+% of society actually still juggles all these psychic response pathways.

So CC denial may not exactly be institutional denial, no - but there is something similar to it, where is functioning on a platform of plausible deniability/ Probably because denial-solution needs a few cities to sink like Atlantis, along with a pretty significant uncontrolled population correction to crack it's foundation of lies.

 

[LibertyBell]

6 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Mm   "institutionalized" is the condensed word for that.  

It can't really be one-off triggered ( boy that'd be nice... ) But we've often heard the phrase "institutional racism" ?  

As we all know ..blah blah institutional racism is the systemic operation [society] from a basis of racial constraints. Uh ... in more life- relevant terms, methods in the ways and means and behaviors on the streets to offices and all walks, are built-in rules based upon assumptions handed down through cultural lineage over generations - that's what it means to you and me.

At individual levels ( I think ) the fact that people operate within those inherited social constructs are "unconsciously biased" in their maneuvers and decisions and thoughts, while in collection, turn the gears of communities and country. That's the nuts and bolts of the "institutional racism" motif - even though the individual persons may in fact not harbor any overtly obvious hatred or distrust based upon diversity. It's really "institutional acceptance and tradition" that is the better euphemism and is paramount. 

People really only know what they were raised to know (bear with me - there relevancy to this...) In the moment? There are douce-bag humans that should drop dead - agreed.  But the majority, I don't think so.  They'd be happy to have a diversity to dinner.  Sit next to them in church.  Play on sports teams with them.  Share the international space station.  Collaborate on projects. Just be friends and lovers.  That's not racism. However, by convention further above they are unwittingly complicit. They turn the gears of society using the levers handed down to them, so they are oblivious conventional racists. 

Something of a similar phenomenon seems to be happening with this anti CC.  A counter-culture developed out of an anathema about Climate Change - sort of "racist against the very science of climate change its self," based upon inherited culture motif-assumptions. 

Add in that there is a factor of mentally untenability, just by shear magnificence of the specter - people just really are not very well prepared to process the enormity of what climate change means --> apocalypse ... before even approaching the anthropomorphic causality.  They can't do it.

That takes time .. That can be certainly sped up - usually where there is more at stake, forces pragmatic changes ... adoption of ways and means.  A lot of that comes back to that talking point of "...Climate change does not appeal to the corporeal senses" the same way as picking up a hot handle to an iron skillet.  That stimulus teaches, 'don't do that'     ...      immediately.  And that lesson sticks.  That is a cultural force that does not change in the individual for life - usually... lol.   CC does not have any such advocate.  If "threat" does not (most importantly) adversely appeal to one of the natural, corporeal "USB ports that connect the human brain, and downloads reality"  ( sight, sound, smell, tough and taste ), whatever the message is, is only considered.

So where we've managed since the 1990s when the uh-oh era began:  We completely f'ed up the climate warnings because of the "shimmering example" in diplomatic flair and acumen of the scientific ambit - we came at the above human condition with blazing excoriations in doom when - wait just a second! - according to existential awareness, this has saved relatives from cancer. Extended life in general. So vastly improved quality of life in as little as great great grandparent-ago that we'd almost seem like aliens to our own ancestors. 

Add that to the list of cogs in the catch-22 gears machining our doom ( I suspect... but some days my mood changes - haha).  When the virtuosity and import of knowledge is held back by a stupidity dam of communicative improficiencies ... what's the f'ing use of knowing all the answers?  Sorry, but a lot of a CC denial is on us; it was a defensive narrative formulated for being unconsciously threatened by the 'artless rhetoric' of the earlier messengers.  

Humans are emotional... That aspect is primitive [perhaps], but was always there first - the advent of higher order, emotion compensating reasoning and the ability to shed motifs in lieu of the pith of what is actually being conveyed, fails pretty quickly venturing outside of science ambit - where... the 90+% of society actually still juggles all these psychic response pathways.

 

it's the limbic system, specifically the hypothalamus, the most primitive part of our brains where greed, fear, anger, all of that comes from.

The interesting aspect of what you mentioned is that the civil rights movement and the environment movement are allies and grew up together, after all minorities are the ones who suffered and continue to suffer the most from pollution caused by fossil fuels. The most toxic output usually ends up being dumped in the urban areas.

 

[LibertyBell]

mass extinction event will hurt humanity in their wallets

https://twitter.com/i/events/1451310011519418420

[LibertyBell]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/19/politics/climate-change-manchin-what-matters/index.html

 

It wouldn't be the first time he's committed violence on legislation to address climate change.

Back in 2010, when he won as a Democrat in a red state in a very red year, Manchin did it by running an ad in which he literally fired a bullet into climate change legislation. That legislation, the last major attempt to enact climate change legislation, did fail.

 

 

Eleven years later, the effects of the climate crisis are all the more apparent and frightening but Manchin is still out to get climate change legislation he thinks will hurt his state. It could also hurt him. His family's wealth is directly tied to coal.

•  
•  

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/19/politics/climate-change-manchin-what-matters/index.html

 

Years later, he's a man specifically made for this moment. The Democrat representing a red state, he's got complete power over legislation. The chairman of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee only amplifies his importance on energy and climate issues.

The current proposal he killed would have paid utilities for moving more quickly away from fossil fuels. Manchin opposes moving more quickly away from fossil fuels since he says the US is already moving away from fossil fuels. He's right. But it's not happening fast enough.

Time is running out. Experts are convinced the window is closing for the US and other countries to address climate change, which is already wreaking havoc on the weather and supercharging natural disasters, before the effects are catastrophic.

RELATED: Coal-fired power is on the rise in America for the first time since 2014

One new study published in Nature suggests that to in order to avoid catastrophic consequences, most of the world's remaining fossil fuels should remain in the ground.

I've been trying to see this from Manchin's perspective. He's like a politician from another time -- when there were Democrats representing red states.

He's sticking up for the energy source of another time -- when coal was king.

He doesn't see the need for the government to hasten the demise of coal since coal's demise is here.

"The transition's already happening," Manchin told CNN, although he would not comment on a story about coal and West Virginia. "So I'm not going to sit back and let anyone accelerate whatever the market's changes are doing."

West Virginians are feeling the effects of climate change and the energy markets.

• Read this excellent story from CNN's Ella Nilsen about the energy bills of West Virginians. They could save money by retiring more coal plants.
• Read the New York Times' recent report on floods and other disasters in West Virginia.

[LibertyBell]

How to find how clean your electricity is, by zip code

 

https://www.epa.gov/egrid/power-profiler#/

[rclab]

On 10/21/2021 at 5:42 PM, LibertyBell said:

it's the limbic system, specifically the hypothalamus, the most primitive part of our brains where greed, fear, anger, all of that comes from.

The interesting aspect of what you mentioned is that the civil rights movement and the environment movement are allies and grew up together, after all minorities are the ones who suffered and continue to suffer the most from pollution caused by fossil fuels. The most toxic output usually ends up being dumped in the urban areas.

 

Good evening Liberty. Well qualified as an urban area only the hardiest (read weeds) flora can survive in my postage stamps native/original soil. I have built up a plant box and pots to grow vegetables with store bought soil. I’d send in a soil sample but I’d rather keep my postage stamp off the toxic site map. As always ……

[LibertyBell]

Urban rewilding!

 

Urban 'Rewilding' Aids Biodiversity, Climate Resilience - Bloomberg

[rclab]

7 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Urban rewilding!

 

Urban 'Rewilding' Aids Biodiversity, Climate Resilience - Bloomberg

Good morning Liberty and thank you. There may be hope for my UHI after all. As always ……

[skierinvermont]

The compromise Biden has announced, which he claims he has support for although Manchin and Sinema have not committed publicly, invests $550 Billion in EVs and renewable electricity. This would be monumental if it passed. Contact your representatives. 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/28/us/biden-spending-bill-deal

[donsutherland1]

22 hours ago, skierinvermont said:

The compromise Biden has announced, which he claims he has support for although Manchin and Sinema have not committed publicly, invests $550 Billion in EVs and renewable electricity. This would be monumental if it passed. Contact your representatives. 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/28/us/biden-spending-bill-deal

By itself, it won’t meet the 2030 goal, much less the net zero emissions by 2050 goal, but it is an important downpayment on that effort. It is also a big advance from the status quo or business-as-usual. I hope it will be adopted, and I have already contacted my Senators and Representative. 

[Bhs1975]

The net zero should have been done decades ago so the sooner the better as we are already getting our ass kicked by AGW.

[Typhoon Tip]

12 hours ago, Bhs1975 said:

The net zero should have been done decades ago so the sooner the better as we are already getting our ass kicked by AGW.

It's like    ....

               this boundary     "|"      represents the too late line in time and history below.

               To the left of that line is "in time," to the right is too late.

               Now say             "*"      is the demarcation time in history when humanity actually demos any quantized compensatory practices - minimally.

               "sooner rather than later" presently,   is unfortunately the difference between this,

                                                                                                            |         *         

                versus this,

                                                                                                            |                                    *

                but is still too late and cannot mean this,

                                                                                                            *         |

( I'm not yelling at you here - I'm just musing from your launch point LOL )

Yeah, it's happening but too late in either case by the 'pictorial arithmetic' above.

Further take:

This cannot end-well. 

Now … it may end 'better', but not without acceptance and execution of two phenomenon: 

- broad sweeping attitude and life-style redress - not sure that can happen without self-dissolving dysfunction if not wars; It is difficult if not impossible for this Gen-Xer to believe otherwise. For having been raised and suffered along side of an ambrosia in humanity-self-impose vicissitudes, a world heated by distracting pettiness ( with a smattering of worth-while problems, as well),  can ever make that transition in a white-gloved way. 

- population correction.   How much, or how this latter transpires, are irrelevant. It is an advent in human history that is going to happen, whether we control this crash -landing, or not.  Or.. adios muchachos. 

The population aspect is a big one - perhaps the bigger of the two.  Because, prospecting life style hardships, and/or reticence to adaptation when forced to change ways and means ...perhaps can be graced by technologies.  Kind of cushioning that ...if (say..) electric cars were to become that much more efficient, and solarvoltaics raise its median solar irradiance --> electrical power efficiency from 26% to 60 or 70 ( say ...), and be readily manufacture-able without big oil lobbying it's infeasibility. Perhaps there is an efficiency break point where if that is achieved ... we can run the grid without any coal or oil.  Supplementing with ongoing or event advances in wind and hydro ...really, these latter techs ...? There's so much there.  I mean Jesus, put hydro plants at tidal gates for f-sake.   That is free power until the gravitation Newtonian model of the solar system ends ... It's all right there - we have the engineering intelligence as a species to take us to, and pass entry into the realm of K-1 pedigree - I realize there is an interpretation that K 1 organizes control at stellar scales, but I believe the K-1 is actually planetary. 

We just have to at last see through the illusion that there are of no other means. That's happening ...slowly.  Maybe too slowly.  The sociopath manipulation over an intellectually incapable western population, one that was erstwhile too pacified to challenge ( not helping), big oil has divisively stymied matters over the last 40 years.  Unrealistic:  choose not to make more than one baby per couple.  In 100 years, that would half-under the human population. 3.5 billion with future tech and measure... maybe-maybe-not enough.  

As an aside, consider the biomass distribution of planet Earth.  The human species atones to ~ 1/10,000th of the total Terran biomass.   It is difficult to census the taxa comparatively, but let's approximate using a 'conceptual short-cut' - we'll use elephants.   Prior to recent human intervention practices, ...~ 100 years ago, there were ~ 10,000,000 elephants.  Compared to ~ present day population of humanity at 7.5 billion, 100 years ago the viable gene pool of elephants was 0.13% of our total population.  SO ...using that a better than 50% accurate ( albeit still) sloppy metric, that sorta implies pretty strongly that if you could remove 100 - 0.13 = 98.87% of human beings, and you'd still have order of magnitude more people than genetic science argues is really necessary to maintain a healthy mating diversity. 

Isn't that lovely.

Now...the toxicity of that exhausting bio mass, the greater "human organism" ...can certainly be ameliorated. Technology as "indistinguishable from magic" could evolve; the total detriment to the Terran environmental "Gaia" ( if you will ...) would allow a bigger population to exist without taking more than its share.   Natural orders and dynamics would tend to respond, etc.  

But this is not realistic due to the human limitation of tending to only passively respond, at the individual level, when it comes to perception of threats, if/when they are merely instructed and imposed. Rather, the impending sense of danger has to appeal to one of their natural corporeal senses; those being, sight sound tast touch and smell.  

So it emerges ever more clear, the larger aspect of the climate change crisis is actually a sociological one. In fact, one could muse it's like "herd immunity" - we just need to get some 60 .. 70 or 80 percent of population's momentum going down a salvation pathway toward a cure, thus defaults the whole wagon in that direction.  Sociologically, the salvation has to include acceptance of those above, unavoidable circumstances though; mandated ( or die, pick) toward that inexorable future...

There are those of us that have been describing this for the last 25 years.  And so now climate change is starting to appeal to these senses. Specters of wild fires and freak storms and unbearable heatwaves …really more so just in the last 10 years, this is the bloody show that births destruction ... Switch on senses = more responses. So it were, it only demonstrates what we knew to be true.   Watching the world wake up to the "realness" now, is happening too late, and is frustrating.  

And so Integrating those years of 'hesitation' into group social-dynamic modes --> modalities over time, doesn't speed up responses. Obviously, ...the opposite happens.  It slows down further....at a time in human history, when slowing down is just a death knell. 

That ..or something like that as a pan-systemic limitation to the "slow moving climate apocalypse," is integral in the total momentum problem.  I mean there are other factors. It's not just passivity.  

[rclab]

6 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

It's like    ....

               this boundary     "|"      represents the too late line in time and history below.

               To the left of that line is "in time," to the right is too late.

               Now say             "*"      is the demarcation time in history when humanity actually demos any quantized compensatory practices - minimally.

               "sooner rather than later" presently,   is unfortunately the difference between this,

                                                                                                            |         *         

                versus this,

                                                                                                            |                                    *

                but is still too late and cannot mean this,

                                                                                                            *         |

( I'm not yelling at you here - I'm just musing from your launch point LOL )

Yeah, it's happening but too late in either case by the 'pictorial arithmetic' above.

Further take:

This cannot end-well.  It might end 'better', but not without acceptance and execution of two phenomenon: 

- broad sweeping attitude and life-style redress - not sure that can happen without self-dissolving dysfunction if not wars; It is difficult if not impossible for this Gen-Xer, raised and suffered along with the ambrosia of humanity's vicissitudes over decades, to believe in world so easily heated/preoccupied by distracting pettiness ( with a smattering of worth-while problems, as well),  can ever make that transition in a white-gloved way. 

- population correction.   How much or what/how this latter transpires, is irrelevant. It is an advent in human history is going to happen, whether we control this crash -landing, or not.  Or.. adios muchachos. 

The population aspect is a big one - perhaps the bigger of the two.  Because, prospecting life style hardships, and/or reticence to adaptation to forced changing of ways and means ...perhaps can be graced by technologies.  Kind of cushioning that ...if (say..) electric cars were to become that much more efficient, and solarvoltaics raise its median solar irradiance --> electrical power efficiency from 26% to 60 or 70 ( say ...), and be readily manufacture-able without big oil lobbying it's infeasibility. Perhaps there is an efficiency break point where if that is achieved ... we can run the grid without any coal or oil.  Supplementing with ongoing or event advances in wind and hydro ...really, these latter techs ...? There's so much there.  I mean Jesus, put hydro plants at tidal gates for f-sake.   That is free power until the gravitation Newtonian model of the solar system ends ... It's all right there - we have the engineering intelligence as a species to take us to, and pass entry into the realm of K-1 pedigree - I realize there is an interpretation that K 1 organizes control at stellar scales, but I believe the K-1 is actually planetary. 

We just have to at last see through the illusion that there are of no other means. That's happening ...slowly.  Maybe too slowly.  The sociopath manipulation over an intellectually incapable western population, one that was erstwhile too pacified to challenge ( not helping), big oil has divisively stymied matters over the last 40 years.  Unrealistic:  choose not to make more than one baby per couple.  In 100 years, that would half-under the human population. 3.5 billion with future tech and measure... maybe-maybe-not enough.  

As an aside, consider the biomass distribution of planet Earth.  The human species atones to ~ 1/10,000th of the total Terran biomass.   It is difficult to census the taxa comparatively, but let's approximate using a 'conceptual short-cut' - we'll use elephants.   Prior to recent human intervention practices, ...~ 100 years ago, there were ~ 10,000,000 elephants.  Compared to ~ present day population of humanity at 7.5 billion, 100 years ago the viable gene pool of elephants was 0.13% of our total population.  SO ...using that a better than 50% accurate ( albeit still) sloppy metric, that sorta implies pretty strongly that if you could remove 100 - 0.13 = 98.87% of human beings, and you'd still have order of magnitude more people than genetic science argues is really necessary to maintain a healthy mating diversity. 

Isn't that lovely.

Now...the toxicity of that exhausting bio mass, the greater "human organism" ...can certainly be ameliorated. Technology as "indistinguishable from magic" could evolve; the total detriment to the Terran environmental "Gaia" ( if you will ...) would allow a bigger population to exist without taking more than its share.   Natural orders and dynamics would tend to respond, etc.  

But this is not realistic due to the human limitation of tending to only passively respond, at the individual level, when it comes to perception of threats, if/when they are merely instructed and imposed. Rather, the impending sense of danger has to appeal to one of their natural corporeal senses; those being, sight sound tast touch and smell.  

So it emerges ever more clear, the larger aspect of the climate change crisis is actually a sociological one. In fact, one could muse it's like "herd immunity" - we just need to get some 60 .. 70 or 80 percent of population's momentum going down a salvation pathway toward a cure, thus defaults the whole wagon in that direction.  Sociologically, the salvation has to include acceptance of those above, unavoidable circumstances though; mandated ( or die, pick) toward that inexorable future...

There are those of us that have been describing this for the last 25 years.   It is starting to appeal to these senses, really more so just in the last 5 to 10 years ...we are seeing immediately, more responses, so ...it's more demonstrating what we knew to be true.   Watching the world wake up to the "realness" of this at in a sense of peril, happening too late is frustrating.  

And so Integrating those years of 'hesitation' into group social-dynamic modes --> modalities over time, doesn't speed up responses. Obviously, ...the opposite happens.  It slows down further....at a time in human history, when slowing down is just a death knell. 

That ..or something like that as a pan-systemic limitation to the "slow moving climate apocalypse," is integral in the total momentum problem.  I mean there are other factors. It's not just passivity.  

Good evening Tip. I’ve read and by necessity, in part, reread. How far we’ve come from the need to procreate. Outgrowing our usefulness? Does the self fulfilled prophecy begin in Silent Spring and end in Soylent Green. In that case I may as well walk down the path we have cleared, arm and arm, with Sol Roth. As always ….

[Typhoon Tip]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:08 PM, rclab said:

Good evening Tip. I’ve read and by necessity, in part, reread. How far we’ve come from the need to procreate. Outgrowing our usefulness? Does the self fulfilled prophecy begin in Silent Spring and end in Soylent Green. In that case I may as well walk down the path we have cleared, arm and arm, with Sol Roth. As always ….

"We have outgrown our usefulness," is a capture -all, perhaps.  

Then perhaps a more discrete drill-down, ... maybe 'outgrown our ability to compensate for the 'drag effect' '.  For/when considering climate change/denial to response-arc's 'momentum crisis' more specifically, that might be more succinct.

You know? - that metaphor, where if humanity's climate-change acceptance to redress capacity is like a fully loaded oil-tanker, needing 1.2 miles to turn around ( lest sail off the edge of the world, LOL ), while we only have half that distance before crucial thresholds are breached...etc..  

Ironically, I just encountered the following URL ..>  article this very morning!  weird how that happens sometimes.

  https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab.  

It directly relates to the mechanics of the "too slow" factor - how/why there is a momentum crisis. It all really starts there, in humanity's dirt.  It grows like a poisonous thorny vine and strangles the forests... eventually.  But implicitly, it is understood as a point, even though the article is explicitly not having anything to do with how fVcking moron-weight slows CC response -

Again again again ... also a cog in the catch-22 machinery as it relates that Fermian explanation idea  ... not just climate-change response slowness.  It's also instrumental in pandemic spread proficiency, ...or why anything that's ever absurd is believed, and also can be ferreted out in the vicissitudes culminating in any tragic losses - usually, outside of 'bolt of lightning events'.  It's really just an irresistible buffet of connection points, leading one to wonder ... how in the fVck saving this planet can really be tenable, when "bandit" or pure stupidity applies to the majority of a planet-fVcking 7.5 billion intents and purposes?!

It can't ...  Logically, it just seems foregone that at a minimum measure, that 7.5 billion has to go down ... way down!   And the same limiting factors, then failing group-integrals, means that drop will happen [ most likely ] by way of ...                                                                        'rage against the dying of oil-lit lights'       - use the imagination                  

There are deeper reflections on the article's/Cipolla's posits for a different discussion - but in principle is apropos/factoring ( hugely really ..) in the CC crisis' complete manifold.

Btw, sorry you're having to "re-read" - I can assure you ... it is not my intention to actually cause pain in a reader's head.

 

[rclab]

22 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

"We have outgrown our usefulness," is a capture -all, perhaps.  

Then perhaps a more discrete drill-down, ... maybe 'outgrown our ability to compensate for the 'drag effect' '.  For/when considering climate change/denial to response-arc's 'momentum crisis' more specifically, that might be more succinct.

You know? - that metaphor, where if humanity's climate-change acceptance to redress capacity is like a fully loaded oil-tanker, needing 1.2 miles to turn around ( lest sail off the edge of the world, LOL ), while we only have half that distance before crucial thresholds are breached...etc..  

Ironically, I just encountered the following URL ..>  article this very morning!  weird how that happens sometimes.

  https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab.  

It directly relates to the mechanics of the "too slow" factor - how/why there is a momentum crisis. It all really starts there, in humanity's dirt.  It grows like a poisonous thorny vine and strangles the forests... eventually.  But implicitly, it is understood as a point, even though the article is explicitly not having anything to do with how fVcking moron-weight slows CC response -

Again again again ... also a cog in the catch-22 machinery as it relates that Fermian explanation idea  ... not just climate-change response slowness.  It's also instrumental in pandemic spread proficiency, ...or why anything that's ever absurd is believed, and also can be ferreted out in the vicissitudes culminating in any tragic losses - usually, outside of 'bolt of lightning events'.  It's really just an irresistible buffet of connection points, leading one to wonder ... how in the fVck saving this planet can really be tenable, when "bandit" or pure stupidity applies to the majority of a planet-fVcking 7.5 billion intents and purposes?!

It can't ...  Logically, it just seems foregone that at a minimum measure, that 7.5 billion has to go down ... way down!   And the same limiting factors, then failing group-integrals, means that drop will happen [ most likely ] by way of ...                                                                        'rage against the dying of oil-lit lights'       - use the imagination                  

There are deeper reflections on the article's/Cipolla's posits for a different discussion - but in principle is apropos/factoring ( hugely really ..) in the CC crisis' complete manifold.

Btw, sorry you're having to "re-read" - I can assure you ... it is not my intention to actually cause pain in a reader's head.

 

Thank you for your response. I re-read for the need to understand, my fear is missing a meaning or assuming a wrong one, I read the article in the link when I reached it. Are the graph sections pure or do/can we inhabit different section of the graph as an evolution of or a reaction to our life experience? Is it ignorance or stupidity that is truly bliss. Sol Roth left to the sound of light classical music and a vision of nature that no longer existed or was even remembered, I wonder …. will we be able to make that decision before it is inevitably made for us?  As always …

[LibertyBell]

On 10/28/2021 at 10:27 AM, skierinvermont said:

The compromise Biden has announced, which he claims he has support for although Manchin and Sinema have not committed publicly, invests $550 Billion in EVs and renewable electricity. This would be monumental if it passed. Contact your representatives. 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/28/us/biden-spending-bill-deal

Manchin aint going to support this.  Did you see what you said today?

I dont know about Manchin but I am 99.99% sure Sinema is going to be primaried no one likes her, not even the people who voted for her.

[LibertyBell]

On 10/31/2021 at 10:37 AM, Typhoon Tip said:

"We have outgrown our usefulness," is a capture -all, perhaps.  

Then perhaps a more discrete drill-down, ... maybe 'outgrown our ability to compensate for the 'drag effect' '.  For/when considering climate change/denial to response-arc's 'momentum crisis' more specifically, that might be more succinct.

You know? - that metaphor, where if humanity's climate-change acceptance to redress capacity is like a fully loaded oil-tanker, needing 1.2 miles to turn around ( lest sail off the edge of the world, LOL ), while we only have half that distance before crucial thresholds are breached...etc..  

Ironically, I just encountered the following URL ..>  article this very morning!  weird how that happens sometimes.

  https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab.  

It directly relates to the mechanics of the "too slow" factor - how/why there is a momentum crisis. It all really starts there, in humanity's dirt.  It grows like a poisonous thorny vine and strangles the forests... eventually.  But implicitly, it is understood as a point, even though the article is explicitly not having anything to do with how fVcking moron-weight slows CC response -

Again again again ... also a cog in the catch-22 machinery as it relates that Fermian explanation idea  ... not just climate-change response slowness.  It's also instrumental in pandemic spread proficiency, ...or why anything that's ever absurd is believed, and also can be ferreted out in the vicissitudes culminating in any tragic losses - usually, outside of 'bolt of lightning events'.  It's really just an irresistible buffet of connection points, leading one to wonder ... how in the fVck saving this planet can really be tenable, when "bandit" or pure stupidity applies to the majority of a planet-fVcking 7.5 billion intents and purposes?!

It can't ...  Logically, it just seems foregone that at a minimum measure, that 7.5 billion has to go down ... way down!   And the same limiting factors, then failing group-integrals, means that drop will happen [ most likely ] by way of ...                                                                        'rage against the dying of oil-lit lights'       - use the imagination                  

There are deeper reflections on the article's/Cipolla's posits for a different discussion - but in principle is apropos/factoring ( hugely really ..) in the CC crisis' complete manifold.

Btw, sorry you're having to "re-read" - I can assure you ... it is not my intention to actually cause pain in a reader's head.

 

The planet would be FAR better off if humanity ceased to exist.

That's another way of putting it and I agree

 

[LibertyBell]

By the way, John, that's the best article I've read in a long time

[LibertyBell]

On 10/29/2021 at 9:03 AM, Bhs1975 said:

The net zero should have been done decades ago so the sooner the better as we are already getting our ass kicked by AGW.

and net zero aint even that great, it just means we will be keeping the same amount of CO2 we have right now, still dumping fossil fuels into the atmosphere but offsetting that.

 

[LibertyBell]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:59 AM, donsutherland1 said:

By itself, it won’t meet the 2030 goal, much less the net zero emissions by 2050 goal, but it is an important downpayment on that effort. It is also a big advance from the status quo or business-as-usual. I hope it will be adopted, and I have already contacted my Senators and Representative. 

Guess what, Don.  Democracy is the worst form of government to fix problems like this.  There needs to be a way for a president to muzzle Congress and get vital things like this done and for them to have no way to oppose it.

The type of government we have is not designed for crises like these.

[donsutherland1]

22 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Guess what, Don.  Democracy is the worst form of government to fix problems like this.  There needs to be a way for a president to muzzle Congress and get vital things like this done and for them to have no way to oppose it.

The type of government we have is not designed for crises like these.

The U.S. Government is highly dysfunctional. One Party has gone off the illiberal and anti-science deep end. A handful of opportunists in the Democratic Party act in bad faith, even if it helps undermine the national interest and brings political paralysis (and Republican gains).

Joe Mancin’s word cannot be relied on. He will only support the bipartisan infrastructure bill, but not the reconciliation bill, unless he has no other choice. He strings along the President and his Party when, in fact, he has no intention of supporting the reconciliation bill. Its climate provisions, not its cost, is likely behind his intransigence. 

[LibertyBell]

Just now, donsutherland1 said:

The U.S. Government is highly dysfunctional. One Party has gone off the illiberal and anti-science deep end. A handful of opportunists in the Democratic Party act in bad faith, even if it helps undermine the national interest and brings political paralysis (and Republican gains).

Joe Mancin’s word cannot be relied on. He will only support the bipartisan infrastructure bill, but not the reconciliation bill, unless he has no other choice. He strings along the President and his Party when, in fact, he has no intention of supporting the reconciliation bill. Its climate provisions, not its cost, is likely behind his intransigence. 

looks like the younger generation hates both major political parties

 

a study was done showing that only 22% support either party with most choosing to be Independent.

Young People Are Over Democrats — and Republicans, New Data Show: What That Means for 2022
New data suggests young voters are growing more frustrated with elected leaders. Some may be on the verge of ditching both political parties altogether.

 

 

[LibertyBell]

3 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

The U.S. Government is highly dysfunctional. One Party has gone off the illiberal and anti-science deep end. A handful of opportunists in the Democratic Party act in bad faith, even if it helps undermine the national interest and brings political paralysis (and Republican gains).

Joe Mancin’s word cannot be relied on. He will only support the bipartisan infrastructure bill, but not the reconciliation bill, unless he has no other choice. He strings along the President and his Party when, in fact, he has no intention of supporting the reconciliation bill. Its climate provisions, not its cost, is likely behind his intransigence. 

I think the drug price problem and the fossil fuel problem run parallel.  In a system like ours, there really isn't anything to stop the corporate agenda from taking over.  If we banned all corporate lobbying and did not allow politicians to take money from these cartels and put a number of other safeguards in place (including the horrible SC decision that allows corporations to be treated as people- that needs to be fixed) we could have a better functioning govt and society.

I'm sure you've also heard how the SC is hearing a case that could prevent the EPA from regulating coal mines?  the SC is horrible, makes me lean towards ending these lifetime appointments

[LibertyBell]

6 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

The U.S. Government is highly dysfunctional. One Party has gone off the illiberal and anti-science deep end. A handful of opportunists in the Democratic Party act in bad faith, even if it helps undermine the national interest and brings political paralysis (and Republican gains).

Joe Mancin’s word cannot be relied on. He will only support the bipartisan infrastructure bill, but not the reconciliation bill, unless he has no other choice. He strings along the President and his Party when, in fact, he has no intention of supporting the reconciliation bill. Its climate provisions, not its cost, is likely behind his intransigence. 

Manchin takes six figures from the coal cartels, therefore he wants no climate change legislation.....Sinema takes six figures from PhRMA so she doesn't want to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices.

Money talks

[LibertyBell]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1455188361090637827

Young People Are Over Democrats — and Republicans, New Data Show: What That Means for 2022
New data suggests young voters are growing more frustrated with elected leaders. Some may be on the verge of ditching both political parties altogether.

[LibertyBell]

awesome....so nothing will be passed.

He wants greater "clarity" after meeting with Biden and associates for an entire week?

 

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

https://twitter.com/i/events/1455188361090637827

Young People Are Over Democrats — and Republicans, New Data Show: What That Means for 2022
New data suggests young voters are growing more frustrated with elected leaders. Some may be on the verge of ditching both political parties altogether.

Their frustration is reasonable. Politicians ignore their interests and treat their interests as being expendable. 

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Their frustration is reasonable. Politicians ignore their interests and treat their interests as being expendable. 

Looks like Manchin was using delay tactics and when he realized they wouldn't work anymore he decided to be honest, he was never going to vote for this, even though they cut the price in half, right down to what he wanted.

You know how they say "we don't negotiate with terrorists".....we need a version of that phrase for the likes of Manchin and Sinema.

This is yet another reason why democracy isn't the ideal form of govt to address crises like this.....an authoritarian regime that was pro environment could actually get things done no matter what these relics of the past have to say.

[rclab]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

Looks like Manchin was using delay tactics and when he realized they wouldn't work anymore he decided to be honest, he was never going to vote for this, even though they cut the price in half, right down to what he wanted.

You know how they say "we don't negotiate with terrorists".....we need a version of that phrase for the likes of Manchin and Sinema.

This is yet another reason why democracy isn't the ideal form of govt to address crises like this.....an authoritarian regime that was pro environment could actually get things done no matter what these relics of the past have to say.

Good evening Liberty. I understand your thinking/frustration. The intelligent caring benign despot may only exist in fantasy. Was the Chinese leader at the global summit? His attendance may have been in the worlds best interest but certainly not his. I dislike politicians and political parties in general. To add a bit to Dons fine statement … in our politically run world the greater need continues to be expendable. As always …

[LibertyBell]

11 minutes ago, rclab said:

Good evening Liberty. I understand your thinking/frustration. The intelligent caring benign despot may only exist in fantasy. Was the Chinese leader at the global summit? His attendance may have been in the worlds best interest but certainly not his. I dislike politicians and political parties in general. To add a bit to Dons find statement … in our politically run world the greater need continues to be expendable. As always …

no because China is the worst polluter of them all, they are opening up new coal mines.

the entire G20 meeting in Rome was a big mess, they couldn't even decide on a timetable on when to shut down coal mines.