rclab Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 5 hours ago, LibertyBell said: But one must wonder what kind of a disaster we are talking about that would shock people into action. Climate change has easily killed many more times as many people as this awful pandemic has. Maybe their ultimate solution is mitigation via telling people to leave coastal areas or they think newly built sea walls will hold up? Maybe they've decided hey we can't stop this as soon as we need to so let's look at other things like putting up walls between the oceans and the cities and let's consider making people relocate by making flood insurance prices so high they can't afford to live there? What do you think about that kind of philosophy, Don? Good morning Liberty. A program called Property Acquisition and Demolition is buying homes in flood prone areas and returning the parcels to wetlands, as the the ocean gradually encroaches. The ‘wall scenario is, in my estimation, a money making sand against the wind effort. I can envision virtual tours in the far future showing where the city took its last stand. My light hope is that the row houses, like mine, will make a good base for reef coral. Perhaps it will not end up that way. The emerging statistics/events weigh heavily on the desire for optimism. As always ….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 5 hours ago, LibertyBell said: One thing I did like about what Elon Musk did, he used the first real space trip by an entirely private crew to raise money for St Jude's Children's Hospital......over 200 million was raised and 50 million personally came from him. Also one of the people on the mission was a pediatric cancer survivor and a Physician's Assistant who works at St Jude's. And that was a real space trip- they were up there for 3 whole days and at around 600 miles up and in orbit! Yes Liberty, I agree. I do hope that Mr. Musks intentions/motives were pure, considering the long term monetary/power rewards of such endeavors. This line from the prophetic ‘Eve Of Destruction’ comes back to me; “You can leave here for 4 days in space but when you come back it’s the same old place”. As always …. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 10 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Chimps are smarter than these people https://www.nature.com/articles/21415 Abstract As an increasing number of field studies of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) have achieved long-term status across Africa, differences in the behavioural repertoires described have become apparent that suggest there is significant cultural variation1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Here we present a systematic synthesis of this information from the seven most long-term studies, which together have accumulated 151 years of chimpanzee observation. This comprehensive analysis reveals patterns of variation that are far more extensive than have previously been documented for any animal species except humans8,9,10,11. We find that 39 different behaviour patterns, including tool usage, grooming and courtship behaviours, are customary or habitual in some communities but are absent in others where ecological explanations have been discounted. Among mammalian and avian species, cultural variation has previously been identified only for single behaviour patterns, such as the local dialects of song-birds12,13. The extensive, multiple variations now documented for chimpanzees are thus without parallel. Moreover, the combined repertoire of these behaviour patterns in each chimpanzee community is itself highly distinctive, a phenomenon characteristic of human cultures14 but previously unrecognised in non-human species. Makes sense in that they are closest evolution of branched ancestors, That behavioral tendencies may be recognizable… Still there’s a huge scale in degree of complexity and sophistication difference there. As far as the sardonic take on that other group of people … heh, I wonder if they subjected chimpanzees two a completely non-challenged life of utter provisional subsistence what kind of behavioral differences would they exhibit that differentiates them from their own immediate progenitor parents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Today, some positive news from Washington: Today, President Biden is launching a coordinated, interagency effort to respond to extreme heat that threatens the lives and livelihoods of Americans, especially workers, children, and seniors. While climate-related disasters like hurricanes, wildfires, and floods produce dramatic images of devastation, extreme heat often takes place out of sight and out of the news. But heat is the nation’s leading weather-related killer. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/09/20/fact-sheet-biden-administration-mobilizes-to-protect-workers-and-communities-from-extreme-heat/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 49 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said: Today, some positive news from Washington: Today, President Biden is launching a coordinated, interagency effort to respond to extreme heat that threatens the lives and livelihoods of Americans, especially workers, children, and seniors. While climate-related disasters like hurricanes, wildfires, and floods produce dramatic images of devastation, extreme heat often takes place out of sight and out of the news. But heat is the nation’s leading weather-related killer. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/09/20/fact-sheet-biden-administration-mobilizes-to-protect-workers-and-communities-from-extreme-heat/ Preaching to the choir perhaps ... but, I have impassioned that message regarding the health and safety aspect of "big heat," as well as my frustration in why it is not recognized in the pantheon of weather threats: Floods, Tornadoes, Blizzards, Hurricanes, and Lightning, for years. There should be, temperature extremes, added to that list. ...and it is empirical too! Heat kills more annually, direct or indirect, than all these combined. Why? It's because what we've floated in conjecture. The average human being responds to what they see, hear ...smell, feel etc. The 'threat' is not perceived as significant unless it "awes" one of these corporeal "proofs". The specter of heat is invisible - ...It can certainly be felt. But the 92 F cumulative morass takes time. And that time seems to lower it's value too much. But, you know, it's shamefully limiting. Because we have the ability to engineer our robots to another planet yet have to rely upon such primitive modal response mechanisms. LOL.. kind of funny almost ... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 21 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said: Makes sense in that they are closest evolution of branched ancestors, That behavioral tendencies may be recognizable… Still there’s a huge scale in degree of complexity and sophistication difference there. As far as the sardonic take on that other group of people … heh, I wonder if they subjected chimpanzees two a completely non-challenged life of utter provisional subsistence what kind of behavioral differences would they exhibit that differentiates them from their own immediate progenitor parents I know that with chimpanzees and elephants who lost their mothers when they were young became violent and exhibited symptoms of PTSD and nightmares. It's really sad and why poachers get lifetime prison sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, donsutherland1 said: Today, some positive news from Washington: Today, President Biden is launching a coordinated, interagency effort to respond to extreme heat that threatens the lives and livelihoods of Americans, especially workers, children, and seniors. While climate-related disasters like hurricanes, wildfires, and floods produce dramatic images of devastation, extreme heat often takes place out of sight and out of the news. But heat is the nation’s leading weather-related killer. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/09/20/fact-sheet-biden-administration-mobilizes-to-protect-workers-and-communities-from-extreme-heat/ Yes but will this response include curbing usage of fossil fuels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 On 9/19/2021 at 11:40 AM, rclab said: Yes Liberty, I agree. I do hope that Mr. Musks intentions/motives were pure, considering the long term monetary/power rewards of such endeavors. This line from the prophetic ‘Eve Of Destruction’ comes back to me; “You can leave here for 4 days in space but when you come back it’s the same old place”. As always …. That reminds me of an excellent old Twilight Zone when the astronaut came back home, but it was to a parallel earth..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 On 9/19/2021 at 11:27 AM, rclab said: Good morning Liberty. A program called Property Acquisition and Demolition is buying homes in flood prone areas and returning the parcels to wetlands, as the the ocean gradually encroaches. The ‘wall scenario is, in my estimation, a money making sand against the wind effort. I can envision virtual tours in the far future showing where the city took its last stand. My light hope is that the row houses, like mine, will make a good base for reef coral. Perhaps it will not end up that way. The emerging statistics/events weigh heavily on the desire for optimism. As always ….. I think the larger cities will be spending a lot of money (trillions) on sea walls. I think Miami, Charleston and even NYC has that in the works. As well as beach replenishment programs to extend the beach outward for better protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 On 9/19/2021 at 11:20 AM, donsutherland1 said: There’s some coverage, but not enough. <I>The Washington Post</i> seems to do the best job in linking extreme events to climate change and climate change to the burning of fossil fuels. That last element—who/what is responsible—is often missing in stories that cite climate change. Hence, the kind of public pressure required to begin to roll back fossil fuel production and hold fossil fuel producers liable for climate damages is lacking. I wish the NY Times was better with this but for some reason they've been lukewarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 45 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: Preaching to the choir perhaps ... but, I have impassioned that message regarding the health and safety aspect of "big heat," as well as my frustration in why it is not recognized in the pantheon of weather threats: Floods, Tornadoes, Blizzards, Hurricanes, and Lightning, for years. There should be, temperature extremes, added to that list. ...and it is empirical too! Heat kills more annually, direct or indirect, than all these combined. Why? It's because what we've floated in conjecture. The average human being responds to what they see, hear ...smell, feel etc. The 'threat' is not perceived as significant unless it "awes" one of these corporeal "proofs". The specter of heat is invisible - ...It can certainly be felt. But the 92 F cumulative morass takes time. And that time seems to lower it's value too much. But, you know, it's shamefully limiting. Because we have the ability to engineer our robots to another planet yet have to rely upon such primitive modal response mechanisms. LOL.. kind of funny almost ... hey on the positive side, John, you now have much more material to write about for sci fi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, LibertyBell said: Yes but will this response include curbing usage of fossil fuels? Not initially. But since the lease sale was announced, the Administration has appealed a court ruling that prevents it from suspending such sales. Perhaps the criticism that followed that announcement played some role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, LibertyBell said: I wish the NY Times was better with this but for some reason they've been lukewarm. I agree. They don’t typically link fossil fuels to climate change. They should do better. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said: I agree. They don’t typically link fossil fuels to climate change. They should do better. Their still useful for puppies. As always… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 NYC just signed an agreement with Canada for power sharing to be 100% renewable energy in NYC govt by 2025 and the mayor and governor both announced urban farms which will lower air pollution and improve the greenery all around the city the city will be 30% greenery by 2030! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 There’s an article floating about the mediasphere re China halting coal in capitulating to CC concerns/international pressure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 3 hours ago, LibertyBell said: NYC just signed an agreement with Canada for power sharing to be 100% renewable energy in NYC govt by 2025 and the mayor and governor both announced urban farms which will lower air pollution and improve the greenery all around the city the city will be 30% greenery by 2030! 36 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said: There’s an article floating about the mediasphere re China halting coal in capitulating to CC concerns/international pressure. Good evening Tip, Liberty. The juxtaposition of your posts have got me to wondering. As always …… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 16 hours ago, LibertyBell said: NYC just signed an agreement with Canada for power sharing to be 100% renewable energy in NYC govt by 2025 and the mayor and governor both announced urban farms which will lower air pollution and improve the greenery all around the city the city will be 30% greenery by 2030! Great ...all they need then would be to clean up the shit stained turpitude down on the streets - 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 13 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said: Great ...all they need then would be to clean up the shit stained turpitude down on the streets - I wouldn't hold my breath on that lol. Well I would hold my breath but not for THAT reason..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 On 9/19/2021 at 3:37 PM, Typhoon Tip said: Makes sense in that they are closest evolution of branched ancestors, That behavioral tendencies may be recognizable… Still there’s a huge scale in degree of complexity and sophistication difference there. As far as the sardonic take on that other group of people … heh, I wonder if they subjected chimpanzees two a completely non-challenged life of utter provisional subsistence what kind of behavioral differences would they exhibit that differentiates them from their own immediate progenitor parents That made me picture a bunch of slow humans nodding in rhythm to the sound of music in their headsets, sitting on park benches aimlessly sipping on their diet cokes and munching on processed fast food as their brain cells slowly die off.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 12:15 PM, Typhoon Tip said: Preaching to the choir perhaps ... but, I have impassioned that message regarding the health and safety aspect of "big heat," as well as my frustration in why it is not recognized in the pantheon of weather threats: Floods, Tornadoes, Blizzards, Hurricanes, and Lightning, for years. There should be, temperature extremes, added to that list. ...and it is empirical too! Heat kills more annually, direct or indirect, than all these combined. Why? It's because what we've floated in conjecture. The average human being responds to what they see, hear ...smell, feel etc. The 'threat' is not perceived as significant unless it "awes" one of these corporeal "proofs". The specter of heat is invisible - ...It can certainly be felt. But the 92 F cumulative morass takes time. And that time seems to lower it's value too much. But, you know, it's shamefully limiting. Because we have the ability to engineer our robots to another planet yet have to rely upon such primitive modal response mechanisms. LOL.. kind of funny almost ... Interview on TWC it looks like the naming of big heat waves might be coming as well as the definition of a "heat season" much like the tropical season. The goal is to draw more attention to anomalous heat and to warn the public because it is a far bigger killer than tropical systems are. Maybe we will have heat chasers just like we have storm chasers. I feel a rush when the old thermo hits 100 degrees! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 11 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Interview on TWC it looks like the naming of big heat waves might be coming as well as the definition of a "heat season" much like the tropical season. The goal is to draw more attention to anomalous heat and to warn the public because it is a far bigger killer than tropical systems are. Maybe we will have heat chasers just like we have storm chasers. I feel a rush when the old thermo hits 100 degrees! Well boo- yah .... for a 100 years over due. But, such is progress - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 15 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Interview on TWC it looks like the naming of big heat waves might be coming as well as the definition of a "heat season" much like the tropical season. The goal is to draw more attention to anomalous heat and to warn the public because it is a far bigger killer than tropical systems are. Maybe we will have heat chasers just like we have storm chasers. I feel a rush when the old thermo hits 100 degrees! Liberty, based on your last sentence, I’m guessing you were exposed to the forky variant. As always ….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, rclab said: Liberty, based on your last sentence, I’m guessing you were exposed to the forky variant. As always ….. I heard something else today.... in NYC all new roofs put in from now going forwards, including any roof renovations, will be required to have solar panels installed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said: Well boo- yah .... for a 100 years over due. But, such is progress - Indeed-- this is the only way to get enough attention to these events, which are hidden killers. I believe over 100 died in Portland alone from this summer's heat! I heard something else today.... in NYC all new roofs put in from now going forwards, including any roof renovations, will be required to have solar panels installed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclab Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, LibertyBell said: I heard something else today.... in NYC all new roofs put in from now going forwards, including any roof renovations, will be required to have solar panels installed! That sounds like the making of a litigation orgasm. As always ….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 https://twitter.com/i/events/1442802973315317761 This pisses me off so much. Instead of killing people in meaningless wars, our military should be bombing these people who are destroying the environment, which affects everyone on the planet. Any and all of these people who are destroying the Amazon should cease to exist. (Same goes for the fossil fuel cartels.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Greta Thunberg blasts world leaders https://twitter.com/i/events/1442953344855597058 She's 10000% right in times of emergency, authoritarianism is actually better than democracy, but it has to be the right (left) kind of authoritarianism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 5 hours ago, LibertyBell said: Greta Thunberg blasts world leaders https://twitter.com/i/events/1442953344855597058 She's 10000% right in times of emergency, authoritarianism is actually better than democracy, but it has to be the right (left) kind of authoritarianism Too much risk... History has too oft and repeatedly demonstrated that humans do not cede control ( ultimately, their sense of power) back to democracy at the other end of those thematic arcs. It may just be 'semantics' but the use of the word 'authoritarianism' is too absolute. Semantics aside, it still is a philosophy designing no necessary room for interpretation or negation - perhaps not during the crisis management, itself, but of most importance delimits the acquiesced societal system a very necessary monitor, checks and balances, ... but most importantly, escape plans. Virtually every "desperate" sovereignty in history, that perceived systemic failure so dire, so unavoidable as to have only one pathway to its salvation: through the voice of the loud 'angel,' discovered the hard way, the angel was dark. This leitmotif is everywhere across history; it's just a fact of humanity. It's what turns the pens and strokes the brushes throughout the spectrum of arts we use in muse whether mocking statesmen follies, or conceit our Nationalist celebrations. You know ( for muse), it's really a lot like the arc of "Senator Sheev Palpatine" from the "Star Wars" saga - it was like predicting the future? Just like those disaster films of the mid 1990s seemed to eerily homage the fall of the Trade Towers - the western world's 'Towers Of Babylon.' We are collectively in tune, though our fears cannot often be so codified. There's still 'something out there.' It's unsettling and potentially wicked. And whether it is coherently definable, whatever that is ... ( you gotta unfortunately think 'vibe' ), it still triggers the imagination, becomes the stuff of dreams to the macabre of canvas, to the thrill of cinema. Being in touch, doesn't always mean being able to touch. But back here on Earth.. if history can provide any guide - and oh no, ... humans never repeat the past - perception, however valid or not, of calamity so extreme enters the dark lord. You know, as a possible ... indirect sort of support for the collective 'sense' aspect, consider the last 10 years and the wave of Populism that's tsunamis'ed around the developed word. That's how the village idiot, with lots of money and a feckless morality rose to be in charge. Not just here... but over in Brittan. These are fear induced acquiescence, because in times of uncertainty and looming specters, that's what humanity does: it shrinks its flower and closes up like a daisy in a spring snow. And inside their petals they are insular, traditional, and safe.. As difficult as it may be to solve this problem, authoritarianism cannot be the answer. There must be another way.. Or, we may perish for either recourse. Doing nothing = death. Authoritarianism = inevitable wars as that escape = death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Typhoon Tip said: Too much risk... History has too oft and repeatedly demonstrated that humans do not cede control ( ultimately, their sense of power) back to democracy at the other end of those thematic arcs. It may just be 'semantics' but the use of the word 'authoritarianism' is too absolute. Semantics aside, it still is a philosophy designing no necessary room for interpretation or negation - perhaps not during the crisis management, itself, but of most importance delimits the acquiesced societal system a very necessary monitor, checks and balances, ... but most importantly, escape plans. Virtually every "desperate" sovereignty in history, that perceived systemic failure so dire, so unavoidable as to have only one pathway to its salvation: through the voice of the loud 'angel,' discovered the hard way, the angel was dark. This leitmotif is everywhere across history; it's just a fact of humanity. It's what turns the pens and strokes the brushes throughout the spectrum of arts we use in muse whether mocking statesmen follies, or conceit our Nationalist celebrations. You know ( for muse), it's really a lot like the arc of "Senator Sheev Palpatine" from the "Star Wars" saga - it was like predicting the future? Just like those disaster films of the mid 1990s seemed to eerily homage the fall of the Trade Towers - the western world's 'Towers Of Babylon.' We are collectively in tune, though our fears cannot often be so codified. There's still 'something out there.' It's unsettling and potentially wicked. And whether it is coherently definable, whatever that is ... ( you gotta unfortunately think 'vibe' ), it still triggers the imagination, becomes the stuff of dreams to the macabre of canvas, to the thrill of cinema. Being in touch, doesn't always mean being able to touch. But back here on Earth.. if history can provide any guide - and oh no, ... humans never repeat the past - perception, however valid or not, of calamity so extreme enters the dark lord. You know, as a possible ... indirect sort of support for the collective 'sense' aspect, consider the last 10 years and the wave of Populism that's tsunamis'ed around the developed word. That's how the village idiot, with lots of money and a feckless morality rose to be in charge. Not just here... but over in Brittan. These are fear induced acquiescence, because in times of uncertainty and looming specters, that's what humanity does: it shrinks its flower and closes up like a daisy in a spring snow. And inside their petals they are insular, traditional, and safe.. As difficult as it may be to solve this problem, authoritarianism cannot be the answer. There must be another way.. Or, we may perish for either recourse. Doing nothing = death. Authoritarianism = inevitable wars as that escape = death. Well, I was actually thinking of technological authoritarianism. Machine intelligence of the highest order.....AGI (Artificial General Intelligence).....as a fellow science fiction aficionado I was curious what you think of a system run by the greatest super intelligence that could ever exist, that cannot be bought by or with money, making relentlessly rational and logical decisions that are for the best for the most number of people as well as for the planet as a whole. We have learned another 22 species have officially been removed from the endangered species list and moved into the extinct category. Perhaps with AGI running the entire planet, much wiser decisions would be made and such finality would not have to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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