Occasional Thoughts on Climate Change

[LibertyBell]

So basically in the Foundationverse, a group of people, unassuming when you look at them, would gain an audience with the heads of fossil fuel companies by mentally "influencing" a few politicians here and there.  Once they had these people in the same room, they would tinker with their brains to make them slowly but surely end their deceitful and damaging businesses and give way to the future.

[LibertyBell]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58508001

 

This makes me pretty damn angry

 

A record number of activists working to protect the environment and land rights were murdered last year, according to a report by a campaign group.

227 people were killed around the world in 2020, the highest number recorded for a second consecutive year, the report from Global Witness said.

Almost a third of the murders were reportedly linked to resource exploitation - logging, mining, large-scale agribusiness, hydroelectric dams and other infrastructure.

The report called the victims "environmental defenders" killed for protecting natural resources that need to be preserved, including forests, water supplies and oceans.

Since the Paris Agreement on climate change was signed in 2015, the organisation says on average four activists have been killed each week.

It said this "shocking figure" was likely to be an underestimate because of growing restrictions on journalists and other civic freedoms.

 

Logging was the industry linked to the most murders with 23 cases - with attacks in Brazil, Nicaragua, Peru and the Philippines.

Indigenous peoples, most often on the frontline of climate change, accounted for a further one third of cases. Colombia had the highest recorded attacks, with 65 people killed last year.

 

A senior campaigner for Global Witness, Chris Madden, called on governments to "get serious about protecting defenders." He said companies must start "putting people and planet before profit' or he warned that "both climate breakdown and the killings" would continue.

"This dataset is another stark reminder that fighting the climate crisis carries an unbearably heavy burden for some, who risk their lives to save the forests, rivers and biospheres that are essential to counteract unsustainable global warming. This must stop''.

 

The organisation called on governments to formally recognise the human right to a safe, healthy and sustainable environment, and ensure commitments made at November's UN climate change conference, COP26, integrate human rights protections.

In response, COP26 president Alok Sharma told the BBC he had "prioritised meeting people on the front line of climate change," to ensure the voices of all are heard."

 

'Shot dead in her living room'

Those murdered included South African Fikile Ntshangase, 65, who was involved in a legal dispute over the extension of an opencast mine operated by Tendele Coal near Somkhele in KwaZulu-Natal province. She was shot dead in her own living room.

 

Her daughter, Malungelo Xhakaza, 31, said her "mother's struggle lives on." She said: "To this day no arrests have been made in the investigation into my mother's murder. There has been no accountability. It seems to me that someone wants this mine expansion and the extraction to go ahead, no matter the cost."

Petmin Limited, which owns the Somkhele mine through its subsidiary Tendele Coal Mining, told Global Witness that it "acknowledges community tensions may have been a factor in Fikile's death." The company said it "strongly condemns any form of violence or intimidation" and has offered full co-operation with the police.

 

The killings also included Óscar Eyraud Adams, who was murdered in Mexico in September 2020. He was working to help the indigenous Kumiai community in Baja California have better access to water.

Global Witness said activists still under threat included communities in Guapinol in Honduras, where dozens of people have been protesting against an iron oxide mining concession that was granted by the central government in a protected area. Campaigners believe the Guapinol river, a vital water source, is threatened. The organisation says "many community members remain incarcerated."

[LibertyBell]

This is interesting

https://twitter.com/i/events/1437209588336578561

 

Oil is no longer king - and that’s fuelling a revamp in some schools

With the energy sector in flux, the University of Calgary isn’t the only institution figuring out how to provide broad and flexible qualifications to better lure energy engineering students. Some schools have already been doing so for years.

[donsutherland1]

Back on August 12, 2011, Joe Bastardi wrote:

Time will provide the answer. Over the next few decades, with the solar cycles and now the oceanic cycles changing towards states that favor cooling, there should be a drop in global temperatures as measured by objective satellite measurement, at least back to the levels they were in the 1970s, when we first started measuring them via an objective source. If temperatures warm despite these natural cycles, you carry the day. We won’t have to wait the full 20-30 year period. I believe we will have our answer before this decade is done.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/12/bastardi-science-and-reality-point-away-not-toward-co2-as-climate-driver/

Note: The underlining here and elsewhere in this commentary is mine.

What happened? The "natural cycles" he counted on did not produce cooling. Instead, the warming continued. 2016 and 2020 were the warmest years on record. The 2010s were the warmest decade on record.

So, did Bastardi concede? He did not. Instead, he shifted the goal posts to a position that is as close as can be to granting limitless time for the "cooling" to occur without his conceding. In other words, his implied promise from 2011 was discarded. Any defense he might have exerted that his position was one of skepticism not matter of belief has now been lost.

In two tweets he posted today (September 13), he wrote:

Has to be Water vapor causing lag in seasons as April/May getting colder due to more winter snows in NAMER. but Sept getting warmer due to warm SST displacement north and greater than average ridging over NAMER SST warming almost all NHEM. Matter of(long) time before snapback

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/status/1437504285743398920?s=20

I am not very popular with some of my "global cooling"friends because I think they want to see it in their lifetime.  Fact is the oceans are very slow to change and the stored heat, from whatever source, is not going to disappear in a couple of decades

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/status/1437504566254313472?s=20

Put simply, 2011's "we will have our answer before this decade is done" gave way to "stored heat, from whatever source, is not going to disappear in a couple of decades."

Bastardi should concede. He was wrong in his bet against science.

He should acknowledge that "whatever source" is the enhanced greenhouse gas forcing produced from fossil fuel emissions. He should abandon the personal belief that has failed him and move to where the science currently is. It's not too late to do so. It's also the most honorable course available, assuming implied promises have meaning.

[GaWx]

1 hour ago, donsutherland1 said:

Back on August 12, 2011, Joe Bastardi wrote:

Time will provide the answer. Over the next few decades, with the solar cycles and now the oceanic cycles changing towards states that favor cooling, there should be a drop in global temperatures as measured by objective satellite measurement, at least back to the levels they were in the 1970s, when we first started measuring them via an objective source. If temperatures warm despite these natural cycles, you carry the day. We won’t have to wait the full 20-30 year period. I believe we will have our answer before this decade is done.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/12/bastardi-science-and-reality-point-away-not-toward-co2-as-climate-driver/

Note: The underlining here and elsewhere in this commentary is mine.

What happened? The "natural cycles" he counted on did not produce cooling. Instead, the warming continued. 2016 and 2020 were the warmest years on record. The 2010s were the warmest decade on record.

So, did Bastardi concede? He did not. Instead, he shifted the goal posts to a position that is as close as can be to granting limitless time for the "cooling" to occur without his conceding. In other words, his implied promise from 2011 was discarded. Any defense he might have exerted that his position was one of skepticism not matter of belief has now been lost.

In two tweets he posted today (September 13), he wrote:

Has to be Water vapor causing lag in seasons as April/May getting colder due to more winter snows in NAMER. but Sept getting warmer due to warm SST displacement north and greater than average ridging over NAMER SST warming almost all NHEM. Matter of(long) time before snapback

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/status/1437504285743398920?s=20

I am not very popular with some of my "global cooling"friends because I think they want to see it in their lifetime.  Fact is the oceans are very slow to change and the stored heat, from whatever source, is not going to disappear in a couple of decades

https://twitter.com/BigJoeBastardi/status/1437504566254313472?s=20

Put simply, 2011's "we will have our answer before this decade is done" gave way to "stored heat, from whatever source, is not going to disappear in a couple of decades."

Bastardi should concede. He was wrong in his bet against science.

He should acknowledge that "whatever source" is the enhanced greenhouse gas forcing produced from fossil fuel emissions. He should abandon the personal belief that has failed him and move to where the science currently is. It's not too late to do so. It's also the most honorable course available, assuming implied promises have meaning.

 Back around 2008 in this forum, I was open minded about the POSSIBILITY that solar cycles were A significant, if not maybe even THE most significant, driver of global climate changes, including GW, based on what I had read and analyzed. As a result, I posted fairly often in the “All Things Solar” thread that a pro met had started.

 Based on the fact that sunspot activity in the 2nd half of the 1900s was the strongest of any 50 year period in ~400+ years, I didn’t want to dismiss the idea that perhaps the strong sun, in addition to AGW, was a big contributor to GW from the 1970s through 2008. By then I became aware that the next couple of solar cycles were forecasted to be quite weak. So, I figured that for the idea that the strong 1950-2000 sun could be a major contributor to GW to be valid, the globe would need to cool back down as a result of the upcoming much quieter solar cycles. Based on an assumption of lag, I decided to give  it ~10 years to see if there’d be a trend change in global temperatures. After having two weak cycles and seeing that as of 2018 GW still hadn’t slowed, I pretty much decided to give up on the possibility that solar was a significant factor.

[donsutherland1]

13 minutes ago, GaWx said:

 Back around 2008 in this forum, I was open minded about the POSSIBILITY that solar cycles were A significant, if not maybe even THE most significant, driver of global climate changes, including GW, based on what I had read and analyzed. As a result, I posted fairly often in the “All Things Solar” thread that a pro met had started.

 Based on the fact that sunspot activity in the 2nd half of the 1900s was the strongest of any 50 year period in ~400+ years, I didn’t want to dismiss the idea that perhaps the strong sun, in addition to AGW, was a big contributor to GW from the 1970s through 2008. By then I became aware that the next couple of solar cycles were forecasted to be quite weak. So, I figured that for the idea that the strong 1950-2000 sun could be a major contributor to GW to be valid, the globe would need to cool back down as a result of the upcoming much quieter solar cycles. Based on an assumption of lag, I decided to give  it ~10 years to see if there’d be a trend change in global temperatures. After having two weak cycles and seeing that as of 2018 GW still hadn’t slowed, I pretty much decided to give up on the possibility that solar was a significant factor.

You described what is honest skepticism. When the data came in, you adjusted accordingly.

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

You described what is honest skepticism. When the data came in, you adjusted accordingly.

But some are still holding onto the idea that we can control climate change by reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the planet.  What do you think of that concept, Don?

 

[donsutherland1]

9 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

But some are still holding onto the idea that we can control climate change by reducing the amount of sunlight reaching the planet.  What do you think of that concept, Don?

 

At present, that’s a concept with too many risks and unknowns to be viable. Thus, right now it’s an indirect way to avoid calling for rapid and sustained decarbonization.

[LibertyBell]

8 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

At present, that’s a concept with too many risks and unknowns to be viable. Thus, right now it’s an indirect way to avoid calling for rapid and sustained decarbonization.

Yes and unfortunately they are looking for any "solution" that avoids that.

Even the industry is promising us new and breakthrough techniques to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.....this only means anything if they stop continuing to put it there.....

 

[etudiant]

57 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Yes and unfortunately they are looking for any "solution" that avoids that.

Even the industry is promising us new and breakthrough techniques to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.....this only means anything if they stop continuing to put it there.....

 

Honestly, this is surreal.

China is building more new coal fired capacity annually than we and Europe currently operate together, while we argue about ways to limit sunlight input.

Does not anyone see a problem here?

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

Yes and unfortunately they are looking for any "solution" that avoids that.

Even the industry is promising us new and breakthrough techniques to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.....this only means anything if they stop continuing to put it there.....

 

Breaking the status quo is very difficult. Those committed to it will fiercely resist necessary changes.

[LibertyBell]

1 hour ago, etudiant said:

Honestly, this is surreal.

China is building more new coal fired capacity annually than we and Europe currently operate together, while we argue about ways to limit sunlight input.

Does not anyone see a problem here?

China is being allowed to get away with way too much, as is India.  I'm not sure why they aren't being called out on it.

[LibertyBell]

50 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

Breaking the status quo is very difficult. Those committed to it will fiercely resist necessary changes.

What I see is the number who deny climate change is fewer now than it was before, but the strategy has shifted now that it's obvious to mitigation and removal rather than transitioning off of them.  I heard Manchin talk about companies switching to renewable on their own and there is no reason for the government to do anything because that will just increase the costs for the consumer and just let the companies make the necessary changes in their own time.

I think in their ideal world the changes wouldn't get made until they were either all retired or dead.

[donsutherland1]

5 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

What I see is the number who deny climate change is fewer now than it was before, but the strategy has shifted now that it's obvious to mitigation and removal rather than transitioning off of them.  I heard Manchin talk about companies switching to renewable on their own and there is no reason for the government to do anything because that will just increase the costs for the consumer and just let the companies make the necessary changes in their own time.

I think in their ideal world the changes wouldn't get made until they were either all retired or dead.

Mancin is using any rationale he can to protect fossil fuels. 

[LibertyBell]

5 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Mancin is using any rationale he can to protect fossil fuels. 

for "jobs" (which are dead end go nowhere low paying jobs anyway) or is it because they give him......supplemental income lol?

 

[LibertyBell]

This is sad and alarming

Polar bears turning to inbreeding and cannibalism as they face extinction

 

https://twitter.com/i/events/1437886948148920328

[Rjay]

4 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Morning thoughts…

Today will be partly sunny and very warm. High temperatures will likely reach the middle and upper 80s in most of the region.  An approaching cold front could trigger some late day or evening showers or thunderstorms. Likely high temperatures around the region include:

New York City (Central Park): 85°

Newark: 89°

Philadelphia: 89°

Normals:

New York City: 30-Year: 76.6°; 15-Year: 77.1°

Newark: 30-Year: 78.1°; 15-Year: 78.9°

Philadelphia: 30-Year: 79.3°; 15-Year: 80.0°

Tomorrow will be mostly cloudy and cooler. Some showers are possible.

All the LibertyBell posts must have thrown you off this morning lol.  

[donsutherland1]

58 minutes ago, Rjay said:

All the LibertyBell posts must have thrown you off this morning lol.  

Oops. It most definitely should not have been in the climate change forum.

[Typhoon Tip]

19 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Breaking the status quo is very difficult. Those committed to it will fiercely resist necessary changes.

I'm a coveted fan of the hook electrodes up to testicles tactic.  It can be a very affecting management tool in that kind of perception based hurdle ... We just have to get people linked up between Climate Change, and Humanity's induction of it, before we supply the charge.   People would be amazed at how quickly resistance evaporates when their nuts are connected to the crisis.  Extending the metaphor further,  existing inside the addling, complacent affects of the Industrial convenience bubble, denies that circuitry and instead soothes said testicles when the opposite is really needed.

Again again again ... if CC came along with more corporeal ( i.e., 'can actually feel it' ) advocates, it would trigger response. The soft ramp up spanning 50 years routine ...egh.   Albeit instantaneous relative to geological time span, I become increasingly convinced ... purely by observation of a Global zeitgeist in the matter, that is still just too far and long outside of the human capacity to link much.

Most resisters believe, perhaps at both unconscious and in the conscious components of their psyche, that it isn't real. Duh. But, why?  I circle back to that post I made in 2019:  'People deny because they can' ... which at a more fundamental level they are not connecting the problem between the environment, and the ways and means of their daily trappings and preoccupying lives have to it.  They are being told, 'You can't do the latter any more, or else [      ]   That's what they see.   They see this,  [     ]

Here's my wild notion:    Intelligence is not evenly distributed - as much so... - among human beings as it is in various other species.  Cats, for example, are closer to one another, than human Joe is to Mary ... and Mary is to Jane ... and Jane is to David ... and on and so on.  In the former, you have a group of cats, one or two may figure out how to open doors by leaping to the handle and doing 'whatever that was in estimate' they saw the human do, but most of them can't make that leap.

In human beings, that gap is the difference between self-soother's walking down the street in heated debates with the ether, versus those solving the fundamental secrets of the God equation.  

More over, ... 50 ... 60 ... 80 ... of all people, probably fall in interquartile density that is ... well, dense.  Too much so to even have prayer in saying anything that offers mystery and intrigue to those moving the variables around in the mathematics of the proverbial formula.  The disparity among humans as the walk and carry on about the Earth is staggering in proportion to even Chimpanzees.   When you subject these greater numbers to a multi-generational, institutional assumption/entitlement to so much... I mean, there is a catastrophic layering problem really. You have to first get people re-educated about what they are being given, then, they may start to connect with the fragility ...and ease, they have no idea there is between them an loin clothed, gang raped, starvation in dystopian pestilence, which would probably be a generation or two in length before the return to lever and donkey power regained any semblance of civility.  But I'm wondering - LOL... SORRY.

I'm being perhaps a little overly hyperbolically dystopian here - yes of course... I mean the numbers and dire aspects of all may in fact be better than this portrayal. But we are so close to the point of no return... we have to also be proportionately daring in our prose, too.

I think of this rigor in society right now ... really a kind of "soft" ideological civil war, between vaccinated and unvaccinated.   More and more, ..the accounts of the latter, where in a room of beeps, pumps and tubes, the ill-fated can only text through intubation, 'get vaccinated'   ... and now they understand!? 

The word "Pandemic" only applies to the part of civility that is not vaccinated - this is incontrovertibly true.  Putting in bluntly, ... if you are dumb, don't understand science, and concomitantly with lacking that ability...tend to be easily beguiled and manipulated by plausibility without sensing the lac of probability in most matters ... ( long sentence but bear with me - ), you're succumbing at a very high rate right now. 

I refer to the Delta shit as "Darwin Variant" .. .because, it IS an exquisite example of a Darwinian example.  It's not really even complicated. It's a direct indictment.  When a solution is offered to a group of people, an opportunity to save themselves ... but they lack the ability to recognize its salvation .. they die.

I mean, if we wanna look at the underpinning philosophy ... our biggest strength against time and the forces of death that really more precisely define the Nature of the Cosmos ... is that we were given the gift of intelligence. That is our tool. Our weapon against the beast...  If people are not smart enough to use it they get removed from contention.  Period. 

Different concepts entirely ..but with root causality in utter limitations of perception and capacity guides why both problems in their respective arenas.

 

[Roger Smith]

Is there any research on connections between the increasing greenhouse gas concentrations and the El Nino or more broadly the SOI ?

Reason I ask is that a lot of the more recent warmings (since 1980) seem to be driven by strong El Nino events, so is there any reason to think that greenhouse gases can influence that cycle? Not trying to say that the recent warming is just a natural product of strong El Nino events because I can see the broader warming signal but it would be interesting to know if anyone has looked into this aspect. 

Also, related question, what are peoples' thoughts on air mass modification? Is the warming entirely due to a shift in air mass frequency or is it a combination of that and air mass modification? My subjective opinion on that is that air masses are being modified at a lower rate than the overall warming, which relies more on the shift in frequency. As we saw in Feb 2015, if cold arctic air can dominate a month, then it turns out almost as cold as record months of the past. But that frequency of arctic air that we "enjoyed" (perhaps the wrong word) up to around the early 1980s has definitely dropped off in recent decades. 

 

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I'm a coveted fan of the hook electrodes up to testicles tactic.  It can be a very affecting management tool in that kind of perception based hurdle ... We just have to get people linked up between Climate Change, and Humanity's induction of it, before we supply the charge.   People would be amazed at how quickly resistance evaporates when their nuts are connected to the crisis.  Extending the metaphor further,  existing inside the addling, complacent affects of the Industrial convenience bubble, denies that circuitry and instead soothes said testicles when the opposite is really needed.

Again again again ... if CC came along with more corporeal ( i.e., 'can actually feel it' ) advocates, it would trigger response. The soft ramp up spanning 50 years routine ...egh.   Albeit instantaneous relative to geological time span, I become increasingly convinced ... purely by observation of a Global zeitgeist in the matter, that is still just too far and long outside of the human capacity to link much.

Most resisters believe, perhaps at both unconscious and in the conscious components of their psyche, that it isn't real. Duh. But, why?  I circle back to that post I made in 2019:  'People deny because they can' ... which at a more fundamental level they are not connecting the problem between the environment, and the ways and means of their daily trappings and preoccupying lives have to it.  They are being told, 'You can't do the latter any more, or else [      ]   That's what they see.   They see this,  [     ]

Here's my wild notion:    Intelligence is not evenly distributed - as much so... - among human beings as it is in various other species.  Cats, for example, are closer to one another, than human Joe is to Mary ... and Mary is to Jane ... and Jane is to David ... and on and so on.  In the former, you have a group of cats, one or two may figure out how to open doors by leaping to the handle and doing 'whatever that was in estimate' they saw the human do, but most of them can't make that leap.

In human beings, that gap is the difference between self-soother's walking down the street in heated debates with the ether, versus those solving the fundamental secrets of the God equation.  

More over, ... 50 ... 60 ... 80 ... of all people, probably fall in interquartile density that is ... well, dense.  Too much so to even have prayer in saying anything that offers mystery and intrigue to those moving the variables around in the mathematics of the proverbial formula.  The disparity among humans as the walk and carry on about the Earth is staggering in proportion to even Chimpanzees.   When you subject these greater numbers to a multi-generational, institutional assumption/entitlement to so much... I mean, there is a catastrophic layering problem really. You have to first get people re-educated about what they are being given, then, they may start to connect with the fragility ...and ease, they have no idea there is between them an loin clothed, gang raped, starvation in dystopian pestilence, which would probably be a generation or two in length before the return to lever and donkey power regained any semblance of civility.  But I'm wondering - LOL... SORRY.

I'm being perhaps a little overly hyperbolically dystopian here - yes of course... I mean the numbers and dire aspects of all may in fact be better than this portrayal. But we are so close to the point of no return... we have to also be proportionately daring in our prose, too.

I think of this rigor in society right now ... really a kind of "soft" ideological civil war, between vaccinated and unvaccinated.   More and more, ..the accounts of the latter, where in a room of beeps, pumps and tubes, the ill-fated can only text through intubation, 'get vaccinated'   ... and now they understand!? 

The word "Pandemic" only applies to the part of civility that is not vaccinated - this is incontrovertibly true.  Putting in bluntly, ... if you are dumb, don't understand science, and concomitantly with lacking that ability...tend to be easily beguiled and manipulated by plausibility without sensing the lac of probability in most matters ... ( long sentence but bear with me - ), you're succumbing at a very high rate right now. 

I refer to the Delta shit as "Darwin Variant" .. .because, it IS an exquisite example of a Darwinian example.  It's not really even complicated. It's a direct indictment.  When a solution is offered to a group of people, an opportunity to save themselves ... but they lack the ability to recognize its salvation .. they die.

I mean, if we wanna look at the underpinning philosophy ... our biggest strength against time and the forces of death that really more precisely define the Nature of the Cosmos ... is that we were given the gift of intelligence. That is our tool. Our weapon against the beast...  If people are not smart enough to use it they get removed from contention.  Period. 

Different concepts entirely ..but with root causality in utter limitations of perception and capacity guides why both problems in their respective arenas.

 

Nonhuman animals typically have different types of intelligence, but you may be right about deviation from normal amomgst humans vs other animals.

There are some seriously intelligent animals though.  Like orangutans, chimps, bonobos and gorillas.  An orangutan was given a saw and learned how to saw wood on his own without outside influence in about 20 minutes.  Outside of the primate world elephants are extremely intelligent and have deep feelings very similar to humans.  As shown by burying their dead and mourning them as well as carefully planning their escape from shackles that cruel humans place them in.  African Grey Parrots can do multiplication and division, understand the concept of zero and understand that when they see their reflection, they are actually seeing themselves.  Dolphins in many ways have just as much of a social life as humans do- across the whole gender spectrum.

Empathy is also profound in the animal kingdom, with animals of different species becoming best of friends and mourning the other when s(he) passes away.  We could learn a lot from them.

 

[LibertyBell]

3 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I'm a coveted fan of the hook electrodes up to testicles tactic.  It can be a very affecting management tool in that kind of perception based hurdle ... We just have to get people linked up between Climate Change, and Humanity's induction of it, before we supply the charge.   People would be amazed at how quickly resistance evaporates when their nuts are connected to the crisis.  Extending the metaphor further,  existing inside the addling, complacent affects of the Industrial convenience bubble, denies that circuitry and instead soothes said testicles when the opposite is really needed.

Again again again ... if CC came along with more corporeal ( i.e., 'can actually feel it' ) advocates, it would trigger response. The soft ramp up spanning 50 years routine ...egh.   Albeit instantaneous relative to geological time span, I become increasingly convinced ... purely by observation of a Global zeitgeist in the matter, that is still just too far and long outside of the human capacity to link much.

Most resisters believe, perhaps at both unconscious and in the conscious components of their psyche, that it isn't real. Duh. But, why?  I circle back to that post I made in 2019:  'People deny because they can' ... which at a more fundamental level they are not connecting the problem between the environment, and the ways and means of their daily trappings and preoccupying lives have to it.  They are being told, 'You can't do the latter any more, or else [      ]   That's what they see.   They see this,  [     ]

Here's my wild notion:    Intelligence is not evenly distributed - as much so... - among human beings as it is in various other species.  Cats, for example, are closer to one another, than human Joe is to Mary ... and Mary is to Jane ... and Jane is to David ... and on and so on.  In the former, you have a group of cats, one or two may figure out how to open doors by leaping to the handle and doing 'whatever that was in estimate' they saw the human do, but most of them can't make that leap.

In human beings, that gap is the difference between self-soother's walking down the street in heated debates with the ether, versus those solving the fundamental secrets of the God equation.  

More over, ... 50 ... 60 ... 80 ... of all people, probably fall in interquartile density that is ... well, dense.  Too much so to even have prayer in saying anything that offers mystery and intrigue to those moving the variables around in the mathematics of the proverbial formula.  The disparity among humans as the walk and carry on about the Earth is staggering in proportion to even Chimpanzees.   When you subject these greater numbers to a multi-generational, institutional assumption/entitlement to so much... I mean, there is a catastrophic layering problem really. You have to first get people re-educated about what they are being given, then, they may start to connect with the fragility ...and ease, they have no idea there is between them an loin clothed, gang raped, starvation in dystopian pestilence, which would probably be a generation or two in length before the return to lever and donkey power regained any semblance of civility.  But I'm wondering - LOL... SORRY.

I'm being perhaps a little overly hyperbolically dystopian here - yes of course... I mean the numbers and dire aspects of all may in fact be better than this portrayal. But we are so close to the point of no return... we have to also be proportionately daring in our prose, too.

I think of this rigor in society right now ... really a kind of "soft" ideological civil war, between vaccinated and unvaccinated.   More and more, ..the accounts of the latter, where in a room of beeps, pumps and tubes, the ill-fated can only text through intubation, 'get vaccinated'   ... and now they understand!? 

The word "Pandemic" only applies to the part of civility that is not vaccinated - this is incontrovertibly true.  Putting in bluntly, ... if you are dumb, don't understand science, and concomitantly with lacking that ability...tend to be easily beguiled and manipulated by plausibility without sensing the lac of probability in most matters ... ( long sentence but bear with me - ), you're succumbing at a very high rate right now. 

I refer to the Delta shit as "Darwin Variant" .. .because, it IS an exquisite example of a Darwinian example.  It's not really even complicated. It's a direct indictment.  When a solution is offered to a group of people, an opportunity to save themselves ... but they lack the ability to recognize its salvation .. they die.

I mean, if we wanna look at the underpinning philosophy ... our biggest strength against time and the forces of death that really more precisely define the Nature of the Cosmos ... is that we were given the gift of intelligence. That is our tool. Our weapon against the beast...  If people are not smart enough to use it they get removed from contention.  Period. 

Different concepts entirely ..but with root causality in utter limitations of perception and capacity guides why both problems in their respective arenas.

 

Did you know that female elephants consume a certain herb when they become pregnant because this herb eases them through  pregnancy and labor and childbirth.  Fascinatingly complex animals out there that humanity in its inherent egotism has taken for granted for far too long and assumed they were somehow "lesser"

I will also add the real "beasts" are the humans who hunt down animals for ivory, causing PTSD in elephant babies who witness their parents' deaths or kill rhinos for their horns, all because of some dumb ideas that so-called "sapiens" have that such a thing as a god-fairy exists and that religion is anything but mythology.

You know as well as I do that if human beings vanished from the planet, the planet would be far better off.  And it's about far more than just climate change.  Human beings' behavior on this planet can be fairly compared to a virus.  Earth is the patient and humanity is the pandemic.

 

[LibertyBell]

6 hours ago, Rjay said:

All the LibertyBell posts must have thrown you off this morning lol.  

Please stand by ;-)

 

[StormchaserChuck!]

Yeah, it's in the wrong formul. a

 

[LibertyBell]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1438247239810535430

 

a funny if slightly disgusting read....if cows can be potty trained, there is some hope for humanity too

[Typhoon Tip]

21 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Did you know that female elephants consume a certain herb when they become pregnant because this herb eases them through  pregnancy and labor and childbirth.  Fascinatingly complex animals out there that humanity in its inherent egotism has taken for granted for far too long and assumed they were somehow "lesser"

I will also add the real "beasts" are the humans who hunt down animals for ivory, causing PTSD in elephant babies who witness their parents' deaths or kill rhinos for their horns, all because of some dumb ideas that so-called "sapiens" have that such a thing as a god-fairy exists and that religion is anything but mythology.

You know as well as I do that if human beings vanished from the planet, the planet would be far better off.  And it's about far more than just climate change.  Human beings' behavior on this planet can be fairly compared to a virus.  Earth is the patient and humanity is the pandemic.

 

I got off my own point/topic in that diatribe...

What I failed to circle back on is the catch-22 aspect

There are a select few that have the brain trust and native power, to engineer the array of technologies upon which the entire arrival of modernity, from civilian constructs to the population crisis, all of it, owes those discoveries.  

But there is a gap, where their 'magic' far exceeds the vast majority ability to either technically understand,  much less appreciated. Having their entire existential frame of reference entirely built inside the comforting, 'dissociative sooth' of the Industrial bubble.  There's a lot of feed backs, but at a rudimentary level ... there really is no where in biology that life on this Planet is observed evolving in a direction when not initiated to do so by stress -enforced adaptation.  Related to that,  convenience does not naturally impel an individual to sensing or knowing needful things, particularly when the convenience spans successive generations - that's all they really need. 

I guess a solid metaphor is, 'How much of the tree is known to the leaf?' 

Overly fertile grounds over produce ...just like we see in invasive species phenomenon - where the incoming population then explodes for having few challenges to inhibit, ... there is no built in conservationism in nature ( that is a human idea).  Enabled only, they use up the resources ...suffer severe deficits, then there is an inevitable population collapse. Sometimes irrecoverably, because there is no longer a loop-cycle; for having been unwittingly squandered, that was destroyed along the way.  Their obtrusive introduction to the ecology was/is too much for the environment to adapt. 

That's basically it .. that's the whole ball of wax - I see the entire arc of humanity, first from lever and pulley basis, to where we are now ... to what all mathematics involved says we are inexorably heading ( should we fail to do what cannot be done, which is stop our selves! ) as a metaphor, if not outright same exact thing as the above ecological model. The insurmountable number of "exhaust" producing species numbers came into being because of the innovation-advantages inherited. We became the intruders as innovation created the over-fertility.  And after so many generations, the "tree" isn't even assumed or entitled - it is just part of the Earth and sky. Much less really known by those who "deny because they can"

We've always, as a species, carried on with business as super complex versions of lesser examples in Nature. The ecological checks and balances will come and get us, too, if just doing so proportionately complex.

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I got off my own point/topic in that diatribe...

What I failed to circle back on is the catch-22 aspect

There are a select few that have the brain trust and native power, to engineer the array of technologies upon which the entire arrival of modernity, from civilian constructs to the population crisis, all of it, owes those discoveries.  

But there is a gap, where their 'magic' far exceeds the vast majority ability to either technically understand,  much less appreciated. Having their entire existential frame of reference entirely built inside the comforting, 'dissociative sooth' of the Industrial bubble.  There's a lot of feed backs, but at a rudimentary level ... there really is no where in biology that life on this Planet is observed evolving in a direction when not initiated to do so by stress -enforced adaptation.  Related to that,  convenience does not naturally impel an individual to sensing or knowing needful things, particularly when the convenience spans successive generations - that's all they really need. 

I guess a solid metaphor is, 'How much of the tree is known to the leaf?' 

Overly fertile grounds over produce ...just like we see in invasive species phenomenon - where the incoming population then explodes for having few challenges to inhibit, ... there is no built in conservationism in nature ( that is a human idea).  Enabled only, they use up the resources ...suffer severe deficits, then there is an inevitable population collapse. Sometimes irrecoverably, because there is no longer a loop-cycle; for having been unwittingly squandered, that was destroyed along the way.  Their obtrusive introduction to the ecology was/is too much for the environment to adapt. 

That's basically it .. that's the whole ball of wax - I see the entire arc of humanity, first from lever and pulley basis, to where we are now ... to what all mathematics involved says we are inexorably heading ( should we fail to do what cannot be done, which is stop our selves! ) as a metaphor, if not outright same exact thing as the above ecological model. The insurmountable number of "exhaust" producing species numbers came into being because of the innovation-advantages inherited. We became the intruders as innovation created the over-fertility.  And after so many generations, the "tree" isn't even assumed or entitled - it is just part of the Earth and sky. Much less really known by those who "deny because they can"

We've always, as a species, carried on with business as super complex versions of lesser examples in Nature. The ecological checks and balances will come and get us, too, if just doing so proportionately complex.

Right, the planet has a Tipping Point  (it abhors dominance by any one species) when the checks and balances eventually get us....we are ever closer to that.  You correctly brought up the population crisis, new technology is a double edged sword, while it feeds the masses, it also enables a larger than safe carrying capacity of humans to exist at one time.  At the current point, with our population of around 8 billion, we are consuming the amount of resources it would take 1.7 earths to sustain.  This is why we have a human caused mass extinction event currently ongoing.  The industrial revolution is the ultimate in two edged swords....we can't live without it, and we might not be able to sustain ourselves with it.

There are some brilliant people looking for and even finding possible solutions, the question is will the rest of humankind's inertia stand in the way of getting us where we need to go?

 

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

I got off my own point/topic in that diatribe...

What I failed to circle back on is the catch-22 aspect

There are a select few that have the brain trust and native power, to engineer the array of technologies upon which the entire arrival of modernity, from civilian constructs to the population crisis, all of it, owes those discoveries.  

But there is a gap, where their 'magic' far exceeds the vast majority ability to either technically understand,  much less appreciated. Having their entire existential frame of reference entirely built inside the comforting, 'dissociative sooth' of the Industrial bubble.  There's a lot of feed backs, but at a rudimentary level ... there really is no where in biology that life on this Planet is observed evolving in a direction when not initiated to do so by stress -enforced adaptation.  Related to that,  convenience does not naturally impel an individual to sensing or knowing needful things, particularly when the convenience spans successive generations - that's all they really need. 

I guess a solid metaphor is, 'How much of the tree is known to the leaf?' 

Overly fertile grounds over produce ...just like we see in invasive species phenomenon - where the incoming population then explodes for having few challenges to inhibit, ... there is no built in conservationism in nature ( that is a human idea).  Enabled only, they use up the resources ...suffer severe deficits, then there is an inevitable population collapse. Sometimes irrecoverably, because there is no longer a loop-cycle; for having been unwittingly squandered, that was destroyed along the way.  Their obtrusive introduction to the ecology was/is too much for the environment to adapt. 

That's basically it .. that's the whole ball of wax - I see the entire arc of humanity, first from lever and pulley basis, to where we are now ... to what all mathematics involved says we are inexorably heading ( should we fail to do what cannot be done, which is stop our selves! ) as a metaphor, if not outright same exact thing as the above ecological model. The insurmountable number of "exhaust" producing species numbers came into being because of the innovation-advantages inherited. We became the intruders as innovation created the over-fertility.  And after so many generations, the "tree" isn't even assumed or entitled - it is just part of the Earth and sky. Much less really known by those who "deny because they can"

We've always, as a species, carried on with business as super complex versions of lesser examples in Nature. The ecological checks and balances will come and get us, too, if just doing so proportionately complex.

Fascinating that you mentioned trees.  In Cosmos, Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson brings up the intelligence and networking capability of trees, how they provide nourishment to injured trees by sharing their roots with them and how parent trees protect their children by shading them so they don't grow too quickly.  Likewise bees are amazingly intelligent, having a complex series of dance moves using which they communicate both astronomy and math (wind direction, angle of the sun, etc.) when communicating new prospective hive locations.

 

[donsutherland1]

A new document concerning oil and gas lease sale 257 is just the latest evidence that the tyranny of the status quo in favor of fossil fuels still prevails in Washington, D.C.. Page 7 declares that the recent IPCC report “does not present sufficient cause” to block the sale of new oil and gas leases.

The IPCC had declared, “It is unequivocal that human influence has warmed the atmosphere, ocean and land. Widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere and biosphere have occurred.” Unfortunately, despite all its bold talk, “unequivocal” evidence is insufficient cause for this Administration to suspend the expansion of the nation’s fossil fuel footprint. Something close to business-as-usual is its energy policy business. 

And, in the best tradition of punting concrete action into the future while seeking credit for that punt, the document suggests, that the report and “additional analysis of climate change may be a significant consideration” in the future. No credit is merited. Instead, the Administration will have steepened the slope for achieving net zero emissions by 2050. 

Given this pathetic embrace of fossil fuel expansion, it is becoming increasingly likely that the United States will come to the COP26 conference without something big and concrete like a clean electricity standard. Instead it may well make promises that are short of concrete policy outcomes. There will be no enforcement mechanisms. And the actual actions will be left to the future. Again.

Other countries will take note. The U.S. Republican Party and pro-fossil fuel Democrats such as Joe Mancin will be emboldened. U.S. policy action will fizzle.

Another opportunity to finally begin to tackle climate change will be squandered. Another generation of political leaders will bequeath the growing mess of climate change to the nation’s youth—youth who made the current Administration’s victory possible in the first place.

Being marginally better than the historically bad Trump Administration is of little consolation. Much more needs to be done over an increasingly short and shortening timeframe.

Will the President intervene to overturn this decision to increase the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions? In other words, will he provide leadership or leadership failure. Well, for an Administration that asked OPEC to increase oil production just after the IPCC released its report, the odds seem against such action.

I hope my worries are misplaced. Whether the U.S. announces concrete, binding policies or merely offers promises at COP26 will be revealing.

 

 

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

A new document concerning oil and gas lease sale 257 is just the latest evidence that the tyranny of the status quo in favor of fossil fuels still prevails in Washington, D.C.. Page 7 declares that the recent IPCC report “does not present sufficient cause” to block the sale of new oil and gas leases.

The IPCC had declared, “It is unequivocal that human influence has warmed the atmosphere, ocean and land. Widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere and biosphere have occurred.” Unfortunately, despite all its bold talk, “unequivocal” evidence is insufficient cause for this Administration to suspend the expansion of the nation’s fossil fuel footprint. Something close to business-as-usual is its energy policy business. 

And, in the best tradition of punting concrete action into the future while seeking credit for that punt, the document suggests, that the report and “additional analysis of climate change may be a significant consideration” in the future. No credit is merited. Instead, the Administration will have steepened the slope for achieving net zero emissions by 2050. 

Given this pathetic embrace of fossil fuel expansion, it is becoming increasingly likely that the United States will come to the COP26 conference without something big and concrete like a clean electricity standard. Instead it may well make promises that are short of concrete policy outcomes. There will be no enforcement mechanisms. And the actual actions will be left to the future. Again.

Other countries will take note. The U.S. Republican Party and pro-fossil fuel Democrats such as Joe Mancin will be emboldened. U.S. policy action will fizzle.

Another opportunity to finally begin to tackle climate change will be squandered. Another generation of political leaders will bequeath the growing mess of climate change to the nation’s youth—youth who made the current Administration’s victory possible in the first place.

Being marginally better than the historically bad Trump Administration is of little consolation. Much more needs to be done over an increasingly short and shortening timeframe.

Will the President intervene to overturn this decision to increase the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions? In other words, will he provide leadership or leadership failure. Well, for an Administration that asked OPEC to increase oil production just after the IPCC released its report, the odds seem against such action.

I hope my worries are misplaced. Whether the U.S. announces concrete, binding policies or merely offers promises at COP26 will be revealing.

 

 

This is why I dont blame activists using whatever means necessary to end the fossil fuel cartels.  No one else has the guts to do it.

 

But one question, who is the moron who wrote this:

 Page 7 declares that the recent IPCC report “does not present sufficient cause” to block the sale of new oil and gas leases

 

Do they not see what's happening on the planet right now?

Also aren't fossil fuel cartel heads being forced to testify before Congress right now because of what Greenpeace uncovered about them using underhanded techniques in lobbying?