Occasional Thoughts on Climate Change

[LibertyBell]

On 1/19/2021 at 3:18 AM, LibertyBell said:

I think it might be too late for that.  The oceans have already been absorbing a lot and it's destroying the marine ecosystem.  In addition to that our oceans fuel our storms so warmer oceans mean many more extreme storms, which we're already seeing.  And there's also the coral reef bleaching issues.

We should just shut down the fossil fuel industry, period.

Whatever hit we get because of it, it's nothing compared to the damage the fossil fuel industry is doing.  It needs to be shut down completely.

 

Good to see the Keystone Pipeline shut down so we'll no longer get dirty fuel from the Tar Sands of Alberta

[LibertyBell]

On 1/17/2021 at 1:34 PM, etudiant said:

Imho this is more reassuring.

If the oceans can absorb this massive input of heat without substantial disruption, we are home free. All these effects are logarithmic, the most rapid impacts are early on.

So if the oceans can buffer several decades of warming, we will never have abrupt change, just stuff that has a generational lead time.

ps the "generational lead time" stuff happened in the 80s, it's quite apparent it's happening much more quickly now.

[etudiant]

11 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

ps the "generational lead time" stuff happened in the 80s, it's quite apparent it's happening much more quickly now.

Is there any actual evidence of that?  We do have a materially warmer than usual Arctic, some beyond historical experience.

But it is difficult for me to see why there would be a step change in oceanic buffering when the increase in ocean temperature to date is at the limits of the measurements.

[chubbs]

17 hours ago, etudiant said:

Is there any actual evidence of that?  We do have a materially warmer than usual Arctic, some beyond historical experience.

But it is difficult for me to see why there would be a step change in oceanic buffering when the increase in ocean temperature to date is at the limits of the measurements.

I hope you are kidding about "limits of measurement". The ocean heat trend is very robust. Temperature measurement in water is more meaningful due to high heat capacity and there is much less year-to-year variability. Another record in 2020.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00376-021-0447-x

 

[LibertyBell]

On 1/22/2021 at 1:25 PM, etudiant said:

Is there any actual evidence of that?  We do have a materially warmer than usual Arctic, some beyond historical experience.

But it is difficult for me to see why there would be a step change in oceanic buffering when the increase in ocean temperature to date is at the limits of the measurements.

rapid increase in winter time temps and also rapid increase of high precip events. and not just much lower ice coverage in the Arctic you're also seeing that on the Great Lakes now.

 

 

[sadqave]

Climate change is becoming a serious headache for all of us, and we are not paying attention to it. Sometimes when I think about it my mind blows. I am an Environmental Engineer and I have very close sight on it. It is sucking all of our resources and ecosystems. We should pay sudden attention to it. If you look at this plastic expanding drastically and making everything difficult. Don't get decomposed and making life difficult for marine life also the other thing is global warning, increase in hotness of sun and so on.....

[coach]

Best Tracking Courier Service. HE is showing a Good result. 

[LibertyBell]

David Attenborough showing how lack of biodiversity and deforestation is an even bigger problem than climate change

https://www.pbs.org/show/extinction-facts/

Watched it on PBS last night.

https://www.mindfood.com/article/david-attenboroughs-7-actions-to-save-the-world/

 

[Vice-Regent]

Bigger in relation to what and when? Not liking this language especially at the most critical juncture. This could be subtle greenwashing by PBS.

[LibertyBell]

14 hours ago, Vice-Regent said:

Bigger in relation to what and when? Not liking this language especially at the most critical juncture. This could be subtle greenwashing by PBS.

Big in terms of 25% of life currently on the planet expecting to go extinct by 2100.

The wet market trade and ridiculous usage of animals for religious purposes also needs to come to an end as well as deforestation.

[Vice-Regent]

57 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Big in terms of 25% of life currently on the planet expecting to go extinct by 2100.

The wet market trade and ridiculous usage of animals for religious purposes also needs to come to an end as well as deforestation.

It's all meaningless because it was going to happen anyway from AGW but you have a point regarding the fact that you cannot have these activities without carbon overshoot. Remove either one and the problem is solved.

I know my stance on this issue is unpopular. I have become increasingly more Luddite-esque as the world pushes the futurist narrative but there is only one sure fire way to end over-exploitation of the land-base which is disrupt technology and technological slavery.

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

It's all meaningless but you have a point in the regard of you cannot have these activities without carbon overshoot. Remove either one and the problem is solved.

I know my stance on this issue is unpopular. I have become increasingly more Luddite-esque as the world pushes the futurist narrative but there is only one sure fire way to end over-exploitation of the land-base which is disrupt technology.

It's also mentioned that overconsumption tendencies of modern society need to be curbed so they agree with you.  African nations are doing their part by giving poachers life sentences in jail, the main problem right now is China and Indochina.

 

[Vice-Regent]

6 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

It's also mentioned that overconsumption tendencies of modern society need to be curbed so they agree with you.  African nations are doing their part by giving poachers life sentences in jail, the main problem right now is China and Indochina.

 

Good luck with that. This is starting to look like World War 2 all over again because the core causes of this war were never resolved in detail.

That brings us to another topic of the insane level of censorship and green-washing and the political circus that goes on in 2021 unrivaled in modern times. As civilizations collapse they become increasingly more inefficient and unstable.

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

Good luck with that. This is starting to look like World War 2 all over again because the core causes of this war were never resolved in detail.

we need to embargo the hell out of them until they stop the illegal animal trade and shut down their coal factories.  They are far more dangerous to the planet than Iran is, for example.

Shut down all trade with these nations and isolate them from the rest of the planet.

 

[Vice-Regent]

1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

we need to embargo the hell out of them until they stop the illegal animal trade and shut down their coal factories.  They are far more dangerous to the planet than Iran is, for example.

Shut down all trade with these nations and isolate them from the rest of the planet.

 

It will never happen as they produce the products that the American economy depends on and backtracking on offshoring would move the ecological costs of production back to the states. It is the main reason why they pulled out of all the stops to get Biden into the White House. Trump wanted to create an economy based on national autarky.

[LibertyBell]

3 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

It will never happen as they produce the products that the American economy depends on and backtracking on offshoring would move the ecological costs of production back to the states. It is the main reason why they pulled out of all the stops to get Biden into the White House. Trump wanted to create an economy based on national autarky.

But they are being penalized for the illegal animal trade with this pandemic (which was also mentioned in the documentary as the primary cause for it) and so have started to shut down those animal markets.  Humans expanding into regions they dont belong in was also explained as another reason for both this and the AIDS pandemic.

 

 

[Vice-Regent]

2 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

But they are being penalized for the illegal animal trade with this pandemic (which was also mentioned in the documentary as the primary cause for it) and so have started to shut down those animal markets.

 

In my mind this is a subtle form of climate denial because believe it or not the climate changes will take these creatures out in the long-run. The best thing we can do is stop the bleeding and prevent the things we have control over.

[LibertyBell]

2 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

In my mind this is a subtle form of climate denial because believe it or not the climate changes will take these creatures out in the long-run. The best thing we can do is stop the bleeding and prevent the things we have control over.

Having less humans on the planet would also certainly help.  No one regulates the destruction on the planet better than nature does.  So humans will also be one of the species that will be culled to reduce their negative impacts on the environment.

 

Climate change is also mentioned, it's all part of the same capitalist evil that humanity is addicted to.

 

[TimB]

Not sure where this should go, but does anyone know of any official climate site in the US that had at least 6 months that averaged below normal temperatures in the same calendar year from 2011-2020?

[Vice-Regent]

22 hours ago, TimB84 said:

Not sure where this should go, but does anyone know of any official climate site in the US that had at least 6 months that averaged below normal temperatures in the same calendar year from 2011-2020?

You may be able to find something outside of the US with such a rare occurrence. There will be none in 2020-2030 as far as I am concerned.

[StormchaserChuck!]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:18 PM, TimB84 said:

Not sure where this should go, but does anyone know of any official climate site in the US that had at least 6 months that averaged below normal temperatures in the same calendar year from 2011-2020?

No

[TimB]

Found one. Great Falls, MT had 7 below normal months in 2019 including a February that was 27.5 below normal!

[LibertyBell]

2 hours ago, TimB84 said:

Found one. Great Falls, MT had 7 below normal months in 2019 including a February that was 27.5 below normal!

it's already been documented that region isn't experiencing it like the rest of the CONUS is and there are reasons for it (arctic shots being directed that way instead of further east, something we've seen over the last few decades.)

 

[TimB]

3 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

it's already been documented that region isn't experiencing it like the rest of the CONUS is and there are reasons for it (arctic shots being directed that way instead of further east, something we've seen over the last few decades.)

 

True. We all see the CPC maps that have 90% of the CONUS above normal and just that section normal or below. And they occur for most of the year. So it shouldn’t surprise me, but any area having a monthly temperature anomaly of 27.5 degrees is noteworthy. I wouldn’t imagine any area of the CONUS has been +27.5 for a month.

[Jonger]

We could do a moonshot global project to bury co2 if we really wanted to, but the key is to get enough governments and people to make the push.

Transitioning to carbon neutral is underway in most developed nations already, we could bury it faster than developing countries are producing it....but again, who makes the first move?

[Vice-Regent]

3 hours ago, Jonger said:

We could do a moonshot global project to bury co2 if we really wanted to, but the key is to get enough governments and people to make the push.

Transitioning to carbon neutral is underway in most developed nations already, we could bury it faster than developing countries are producing it....but again, who makes the first move?

We are losing the ability to mass mobilize on an industrial scale in part due to COVID and resource shortages which are soon to be real shortages quantitatively. Economic prosperity is extinguishable.

Just burying enough CO2 to keep CO2 concentrations stable is not enough. We would lose all coastal cities to rapid sea level rise. Put simply ... we waited too long and as a civilization we are losing the ability to provide people with a decent quality of life which negates the whole purpose of a civilization.

[Jonger]

18 hours ago, Vice-Regent said:

We are losing the ability to mass mobilize on an industrial scale in part due to COVID and resource shortages which are soon to be real shortages quantitatively. Economic prosperity is extinguishable.

Just burying enough CO2 to keep CO2 concentrations stable is not enough. We would lose all coastal cities to rapid sea level rise. Put simply ... we waited too long and as a civilization we are losing the ability to provide people with a decent quality of life which negates the whole purpose of a civilization.

There's no precedent for what route an advanced intelligent civilization needs to take to safeguard the planet.

Do you really think there was a blueprint for all of this?

Bury CO2 and let technology advance to carbon neutral. That's your option at this point.

[Vice-Regent]

3 hours ago, Jonger said:

There's no precedent for what route an advanced intelligent civilization needs to take to safeguard the planet.

Do you really think there was a blueprint for all of this?

Bury CO2 and let technology advance to carbon neutral. That's your option at this point.

Too many liabilities for too few people. I am ready to dump my investment in civilization. It's no different you seem pretty capitalist minded.

[Jonger]

2 minutes ago, Vice-Regent said:

Too many liabilities for too few people. I am ready to dump my investment in civilization. It's no different you seem pretty capitalist minded.

I'm realistic. The only solutions people will rally behind are those with as little impact on their lives.

Sucking the CO2 out of the atmosphere in Nevada to pull down the levels in England are palatable for most of us. You seem like you have ulterior motives at control...you'll be watching the world burn with that kind of thinking.

[LibertyBell]

1 hour ago, Jonger said:

I'm realistic. The only solutions people will rally behind are those with as little impact on their lives.

Sucking the CO2 out of the atmosphere in Nevada to pull down the levels in England are palatable for most of us. You seem like you have ulterior motives at control...you'll be watching the world burn with that kind of thinking.

car companies are on board to be fully renewable within 10-15 years and on top of that even China has committed to being carbon neutral by 2060.  And that's the last one to the party.