dendrite Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, weatherwiz said: Steve raises a valid point though. In terms of LA the air quality there is mainly due to the emissions of motor vehicles and the build-up of those chemicals in the air. Salt Lake City I believe is due to strong inversions that develop over that area. For us...more times than not our air quality is due to ozone build up at the sfc which results in airmasses where there is little mixing and there is some sort of inversion aloft and below the inversion you have a hot and moist airmass. Thinking about it chemically H20 and O3 reacting...not pleasant. It's always worse with low mixing. You need sun to "break apart" NO2 to cause the chain reaction to form O3. Dews just happen to occur with our hottest airmasses, weakest mixing, and longest daylight hours. My AQ is a little rusty, but I believe water vapor breaks down in the stratosphere which can lead to depletion of ozone in the strat. I don't remember the exact chemical reactions though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said: Right. They get them all the time in LA or Salt Lake and dews are in the 20’s. It’s got nothing to do with humidity . It’s smoke and smog One thing for sure you are dead wrong that the air quality alert is for smoke, learn somethings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, dendrite said: It's always worse with low mixing. You need sun to "break apart" NO2 to cause the chain reaction to form O3. Dews just happen to occur with our hottest airmasses, weakest mixing, and longest daylight hours. My AQ is a little rusty, but I believe water vapor breaks down in the stratosphere which can lead to depletion of ozone in the strat. I don't remember the exact chemical reactions though. From Mwn Well, the reason why the increase in water vapor (humidity) is so important because most of the haze we see, especially on the east coast, is because of the chemical reactions that occur in the air between pollutants like Sulphur Dioxide (SO2), which originates from the burning of fossil fuels, other industrial processes, volcanic eruptions, and dah dum… wildfires. SO2 bonds with the oxygen (O) and hydrogen (H) in the water vapor and air to create various sulphur oxides (SOx) and can even precipitate as Sulphuric Acid (H2S04), if in liquid form. If less water is present, then as a solid in the form of ammonium salts, which if mixed with water can create Sulphuric Acid. Either way, they both act to scatter the light because the molecules are big compared to air and in different light spectrum, can appear differently. Sometimes, the bonds are created by oxidation reactions in which the sun helps the process along, a process called photo-oxidation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, dendrite said: It's always worse with low mixing. You need sun to "break apart" NO2 to cause the chain reaction to form O3. Dews just happen to occur with our hottest airmasses, weakest mixing, and longest daylight hours. My AQ is a little rusty, but I believe water vapor breaks down in the stratosphere which can lead to depletion of ozone in the strat. I don't remember the exact chemical reactions though. I see what you're saying. I'm trying to remember too but I think water vapor in the stratosphere can lead to depletion of ozone in the stratosphere. In Remote Sensing and Atmospheric Physics we talked a bit about this...if I remember correctly there is some type of reaction that occurs between something and it takes something like years (maybe even decades) for it to break down or something. Have to check my notes later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said: Only the lowlands or elevated valleys have those temps. Most of interior SNE are in the 60’s. My low today was 69.2. Well, I certainly qualify as elevated Valley. I was 11° cooler than you this morning! My wife shut the fans off when she got up because the house was down to 65°. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said: Well, I certainly qualify as elevated Valley. I was 11° cooler than you this morning! My wife shut the fans off when she got up because the house was down to 65°. Union and Stafford Ct all had lows in the 50s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said: From Mwn Well, the reason why the increase in water vapor (humidity) is so important because most of the haze we see, especially on the east coast, is because of the chemical reactions that occur in the air between pollutants like Sulphur Dioxide (SO2), which originates from the burning of fossil fuels, other industrial processes, volcanic eruptions, and dah dum… wildfires. SO2 bonds with the oxygen (O) and hydrogen (H) in the water vapor and air to create various sulphur oxides (SOx) and can even precipitate as Sulphuric Acid (H2S04), if in liquid form. If less water is present, then as a solid in the form of ammonium salts, which if mixed with water can create Sulphuric Acid. Either way, they both act to scatter the light because the molecules are big compared to air and in different light spectrum, can appear differently. Sometimes, the bonds are created by oxidation reactions in which the sun helps the process along, a process called photo-oxidation. I thought we were talking ozone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 And yeah, sulphuric haze which requires sulfates (pollution) to form...not directly the fault of dews. I doubt dinosaurs were struggling with ozone on Pangaea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said: But yeah, Jan 10 is too early. And I agree... I was just noticing last night some entrails of day-light at 9: pm and thinking it's nice that the days are long. If anyone is saying otherwise, they are wishing the summer time away to get to their preferred time of year and are not being realistic.. It's nice to have a bit of light remaining when I take the pup out for my 9 PM obs. Was especially welcomed last night, as coyotes had been singing quite near the house earlier, close enough that I could hear their paws on the leaves - probably within 20 yards though not visible due to screening undergrowth. Niot concerned about them attacking me, though I took my ironwood walking stick, but out dog is smaller than an adult coyote and there were at least two in that chorus. They were back within about 100 yards again this morning, parents and pups, as that species usually doesn't run in extended family packs like wolves. Anyway, I don't think it can actually be 105/75 here, do to the fact that by the time the atmosphere is arriving this far E it's heavily burdened with polyaromatic aerosols from continental exhausting ... Plus, being closer to sea-level, we have to heat the total column of the atmosphere...these factors mean that it takes more solar energy to get a parcel to that state than it does out near Chicago... even less so in western Kansas... In simple terms... there's an intuitive limit to the 'highest' ( I think ) . Probably correct, but August 2, 1975 must've been close with Logan registering 102/83, their highest minimum on record, by 2°. Seems like it would take a pretty tall dew to hold overnight temps that warm next to the bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said: One thing for sure you are dead wrong that the air quality alert is for smoke, learn somethings LA and SLC laugh at you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Ginx snewx said: Union and Stafford Ct all had lows in the 50s He's on a hill top and thinks everyone lives on a hill top. Everyone below him was in the upper 50s and 99.9% of the population lives below him. There are some people like this station in Union that are over 1,000' had lows in the upper 50s: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KCTUNION5 Even the hill top AirNow station at 990' here in Stafford was in the low 60s but again, he insists that because he was in the upper 60s that everyone else was and temps in the 50s were the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, Damage In Tolland said: LA and SLC laugh at you Glad we dont live there. You would be educated about AQI if you could take the time to read. The alert is for Ozone not smoke, the laughs on you. Congrats to all those who get cracks on their gaskets on their gas powered toys. Damage! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, dendrite said: And yeah, sulphuric haze which requires sulfates (pollution) to form...not directly the fault of dews. I doubt dinosaurs were struggling with ozone on Pangaea. Urban corridors are the worst in heat waves with higher humidity, gross smelling and definitely a health risk. I will take mixed 90/55 for days rather than stagnant 90/68 near a city, some differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, tamarack said: It's nice to have a bit of light remaining when I take the pup out for my 9 PM obs. Was especially welcomed last night, as coyotes had been singing quite near the house earlier, close enough that I could hear their paws on the leaves - probably within 20 yards though not visible due to screening undergrowth. Niot concerned about them attacking me, though I took my ironwood walking stick, but out dog is smaller than an adult coyote and there were at least two in that chorus. They were back within about 100 yards again this morning, parents and pups, as that species usually doesn't run in extended family packs like wolves. Anyway, I don't think it can actually be 105/75 here, do to the fact that by the time the atmosphere is arriving this far E it's heavily burdened with polyaromatic aerosols from continental exhausting ... Plus, being closer to sea-level, we have to heat the total column of the atmosphere...these factors mean that it takes more solar energy to get a parcel to that state than it does out near Chicago... even less so in western Kansas... In simple terms... there's an intuitive limit to the 'highest' ( I think ) . Probably correct, but August 2, 1975 must've been close with Logan registering 102/83, their highest minimum on record, by 2°. Seems like it would take a pretty tall dew to hold overnight temps that warm next to the bay. I was speaking to the DP with my lower number in that 105/75 facsimile .. As in, the sun has to work to heat that much water for that context - That's pretty interesting that you get Coyote howls there... Not to be silly, but are there Wolves... I really don't know. Off the top of my head I'm inclined to think not... Between the St L. seaway and human presence ...both may act as a block ( former ) and deterrent ( latter ) and maybe that removed them over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, Ginx snewx said: Urban corridors are the worst in heat waves with higher humidity, gross smelling and definitely a health risk. I will take mixed 90/55 for days rather than stagnant 90/68 near a city, some differ. What about backyards that are high in dog fecal content? Do they smell? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 minute ago, CoastalWx said: What about backyards that are high in dog fecal content? Do they smell? Lol ... wtf dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said: Yea that happens too, but generally if you hit a horde walking if you get in the sun they disperse. We had a tremendous problem in our outside exhibits last year, brutal and no way to diminish them. Our pest control guy gave up lol Must be some cultural differences from deerflies in Maine. Sun with mid-80s or above generally drive the blackflies into the shade (June of 1996 was a horrible exception. At Deboullie Twp about 25 miles SW from Ft. Kent, I was getting pounded by blackflies while 500' from shore on Deboullie Pond while it was sunny low 90s. Two firsts there, getting bit that far out on the water, and at 90+.) Deerflies only buzz faster in the heat. I've had dozens to hundreds circling me and bouncing off my head on the summer's hottest days in the north woods. They were accompanied by as many or more "sweat lickers", similar size insects that are pesty but harmless. With buzzbombs all around, one cannot tell which ones have knives in their teeth. Another thing I've found is that deerflies home in on motion. I can be two steps from our porch and one has already found me, but if I stand still, they soon go away (mosquitos/blackflies do not, unfortunately.) Reminds me of the "Jurassic Park" version of T-Rex, and deerfly bites feel like their respective dental equipment might be similar, scaled for their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, CoastalWx said: What about backyards that are high in dog fecal content? Do they smell? You have in the last 3 days mentioned dog shit. Are you obsessed? Obviously you have no clue about dog care. Does it smell as bad as the shitty diapers or do you clean up and empty them constantly? Yea my yard is cleaned twice a day and bagged and trashed in a sealed garbage can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, tamarack said: Must be some cultural differences from deerflies in Maine. Sun with mid-80s or above generally drive the blackflies into the shade (June of 1996 was a horrible exception. At Deboullie Twp about 25 miles SW from Ft. Kent, I was getting pounded by blackflies while 500' from shore on Deboullie Pond while it was sunny low 90s. Two firsts there, getting bit that far out on the water, and at 90+.) Deerflies only buzz faster in the heat. I've had dozens to hundreds circling me and bouncing off my head on the summer's hottest days in the north woods. They were accompanied by as many or more "sweat lickers", similar size insects that are pesty but harmless. With buzzbombs all around, one cannot tell which ones have knives in their teeth. Another thing I've found is that deerflies home in on motion. I can be two steps from our porch and one has already found me, but if I stand still, they soon go away (mosquitos/blackflies do not, unfortunately.) Reminds me of the "Jurassic Park" version of T-Rex, and deerfly bites feel like their respective dental equipment might be similar, scaled for their size. The small bastards seem to enjoy wet shaded areas. The monster horse flies leave a mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, dendrite said: +5.6F at MHT and PWM. Holy shit. That’s incredible. The 3 ASOS east of the Green Mtn Spine in this area are +0.9 (MPV), +0.2 (1V4) and +0.3 (MVL).... so all between 0 and +1. You can tell that MVL and 1V4 have slightly lower departures as they radiate a bit better. But I can’t believe SE of the mountains has been such a torch, that’s a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said: Last time we had air quality alert with low dews? Current dews there are near 60, which in July probably doesn't fit either low or high. About the lowest dews as I can remember for an ozone alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn0waddict Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Slightly OT but which one of you weather weenies hacked the 3k NAM and decided to turn Barry into an 866 mb super hurricane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 Yeah ... I gotta 'magine... jamming my head up a pigs ass ...wow! you talk 'bout stenchy torridity... Heh. Ya know.. I was in NYC back in ... 1997 or 1998, August, first time, ... unsuccessfully attempting to woo probably the most painful forlorn crush, ever - but that's 'sides the point. I was unimpressed. Walking along side of her as she showed me the common cultural heritage points, ...round 1 or 2 pm on a random weekday afternoon, I was struck by the smells. "City of the thousand lights," did not motivate me to description, not nearly as successfully as the odors that literally ... punch your f'n nose, and do so, with 0 discernible differential just ambling along, bumping shoulders with strangers that come with their own interesting suggestions. You're literally charmed to almost endearing tears by that which flowers could only envy, and before you can even turn to your object of adoration to inform her, you could swear you've just been forcibly fed a f'n fetid fecal stuffed rat carcass - kind of kills the ambition to tell her. Then, its the bouquet of roses... Then the savory aroma of cooking meat suddenly meets a dogs ass that is violently morphed within another step into violets that are conning you into thinking you're not really tasting vomit... Whack whack whack... zero adjustment, merely ambling down of some ... street with a numeral name astride and or upon some Time To Take Shit Square... I remember I turned to her and said, "More like the city of thousand smells." F'n place is steeped in conceit and arrogantly overrated in a lot of ways... Just as much as the legends of Broadway, the cultural cooker and stories very much do carry their own substantive cultural gravitas. Or maybe in my own bias I'm just saddened eternally that she got away ... And now when I think back, I'd rather not stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said: You have in the last 3 days mentioned dog shit. Are you obsessed? Obviously you have no clue about dog care. Does it smell as bad as the shitty diapers or do you clean up and empty them constantly? Yea my yard is cleaned twice a day and bagged and trashed in a sealed garbage can. Just a concerned friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, tamarack said: Current dews there are near 60, which in July probably doesn't fit either low or high. About the lowest dews as I can remember for an ozone alert. Mid 60s and near 70 in AQI areas https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=OKX&product=RWR&format=CI&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, weathafella said: We’re rocketing today despite the haze. BOS 86 at 10am. Good smoke today after yesterday afternoon’s haze. Hazy conditions will continue through much of the day as smoke from the Canadian wildfires remains over the region. Some of the near surface progs from the HRRR are showing smoke reaching the ground in the afternoon so those who are vulnerable to air quality may need to be on alert this afternoon into the evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, CoastalWx said: Just a concerned friend. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, powderfreak said: Good smoke today after yesterday afternoon’s haze. Hazy conditions will continue through much of the day as smoke from the Canadian wildfires remains over the region. Some of the near surface progs from the HRRR are showing smoke reaching the ground in the afternoon so those who are vulnerable to air quality may need to be on alert this afternoon into the evening Yup. AEBGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, powderfreak said: Good smoke today after yesterday afternoon’s haze. Hazy conditions will continue through much of the day as smoke from the Canadian wildfires remains over the region. Some of the near surface progs from the HRRR are showing smoke reaching the ground in the afternoon so those who are vulnerable to air quality may need to be on alert this afternoon into the evening Smoke um if ya got um, like a good firepit smell? or would you rather smell ozone in NYC area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said: Smoke um if ya got um, like a good firepit smell? or would you rather smell ozone in NYC area? It was crazy yesterday afternoon on my hike. The view from 3,600ft was just like an orange haze in the late afternoon sun. Could only see a couple peaks north and south on the Spine before becoming obscure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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