Heavy heavy lawn thread 2019

[dendrite]

1 hour ago, tamarack said:

Not PC  
In the plant nursery business, trees like striped maple are called "snakebark maple."  And slippery elm is relatively uncommon in the Northeast, such that I've never bothered to learn how it's different from American elm.

If people want PC look elsewhere.

This is all I found pic wise for slippery vs american. The american definitely look more rounded versus the pointed slippery. I don't have a very good knack of differentiating trees via buds yet. I guess there's some differences in the seeds so I'll see what I find next spring. I found all of these trees along an almost permanent stream which osrt of confirms slippery elm based on the descriptions in this link as well.

http://uptreeid.com/Species/elms.htm

 

[Lava Rock]

I'm planning to overseed this weekend.  To be sure I have the steps right....
1) mow today a low setting (bagging not mulching)
2) seed/starter
3) do I need to rake for overseeding?  Can' really see what's taking place with existing grass.
4) water
5) for overseeding, how long do you wait before you mow again?
 
Thanks for confirming/redirecting any of the steps above.
 
 

I'll be doing what your doing soon...

[Lava Rock]

What do you have for topsoil back there? That looks as bad as I’ve ever seen in pics from you.

Topsoil seems decent. Maybe 3-4". I checked for grubs and see none. It's just odd. Other houses around here on the hills have decent green lawn and theirs are exposed as much as ours. Maybe all the granite underneath has some effect, IDK. It's just ridiculous and an eye sore

[dendrite]

10 hours ago, tamarack said:

Not PC  
In the plant nursery business, trees like striped maple are called "snakebark maple."  And slippery elm is relatively uncommon in the Northeast, such that I've never bothered to learn how it's different from American elm.

Can you make out pin oak vs black oak via these pics?

 

[Baroclinic Zone]

I lean pin oak

[tamarack]

24 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

I lean pin oak

Agree.  The sinuses are too deep for black oak, and though the full tree pic doesn't show pin oak's frequent horizontal (or lower) branch character, that facet is usually seen in open-grown street trees.  In the forest the tree grows much like other oaks, though it's prone to epicormic branches (none seen in the pic) unless it's in dense woods.

[SJonesWX]

On 8/31/2019 at 8:25 AM, moneypitmike said:

I'm planning to overseed this weekend.  To be sure I have the steps right....

1) mow today a low setting (bagging not mulching)

2) seed/starter

3) do I need to rake for overseeding?  Can' really see what's taking place with existing grass.

4) water

5) for overseeding, how long do you wait before you mow again?

 

Thanks for confirming/redirecting any of the steps above.

 

 

You need to get the seed to contact the soil. Just spreading it on top of the grass will be a waste of time and money. Aerate, or dethatch at a minimum.

[Lava Rock]

Was reading our last soil report from 2016 and our pH of soil is 5.7, which is slightly low. It's recommended to apply 30lbs lime per 1000sqrt. But, the real problem is low organic matter. From the report:
"Your soil pH is only slightly low. The real problem is very low organic mater content, which greatly limits nutrient and water holding capacity. This is a common problem with purchased soil – perhaps also with the new soil you are bringing in. Almost any sandy soil needs some organic matter mixed in before seeding. Tilling in 1 – 2 inches compost and/or peat moss are common materials to use, either in your existing soil or soil brought in."

Sounds like a huge project to till-in a bunch of compost or peat moss. I was going to buy a bunch of lime but that doesn't seem to be the problem.

[Baroclinic Zone]

10 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Was reading our last soil report from 2016 and our pH of soil is 5.7, which is slightly low. It's recommended to apply 30lbs lime per 1000sqrt. But, the real problem is low organic matter. From the report:
"Your soil pH is only slightly low. The real problem is very low organic mater content, which greatly limits nutrient and water holding capacity. This is a common problem with purchased soil – perhaps also with the new soil you are bringing in. Almost any sandy soil needs some organic matter mixed in before seeding. Tilling in 1 – 2 inches compost and/or peat moss are common materials to use, either in your existing soil or soil brought in."

Sounds like a huge project to till-in a bunch of compost or peat moss. I was going to buy a bunch of lime but that doesn't seem to be the problem.

If you do a core aeration of the soil then top dress with compost, that should get the nutrients down into the ground. 

[dendrite]

Yeah...sounds like your grass, and even your weeds, are running out of “food”. You’d probably need to frequently fertilize it throughout the warm season to feed it without the addition of compost. It’s amazing what organic material can do to nutritionally starving plants. My plants that have been growing in composting wood chips for 2 years are growing amazing as the nutrients slowly feed in along with the beneficial fungi. I had a bunch of struggling potted plants that lit up after top dressing with that material and watering some fresh chicken manure into them. My front yard looks a little like yours. The zoysia out there is trying, but the soil out there is about as organic as a twinkie. 

[Lava Rock]

If you do a core aeration of the soil then top dress with compost, that should get the nutrients down into the ground. 

Just remembered we did this a few years ago and it did nothing. Although don't recall if the landscaper aerated first. He dropped some compost and sees and that was it

[Lava Rock]

Yeah...sounds like your grass, and even your weeds, are running out of “food”. You’d probably need to frequently fertilize it throughout the warm season to feed it without the addition of compost. It’s amazing what organic material can do to nutritionally starving plants. My plants that have been growing in composting wood chips for 2 years are growing amazing as the nutrients slowly feed in along with the beneficial fungi. I had a bunch of struggling potted plants that lit up after top dressing with that material and watering some fresh chicken manure into them. My front yard looks a little like yours. The zoysia out there is trying, but the soil out there is about as organic as a twinkie. 

But should u fertilize dead and/or dormant grass? I dropped one round in April and one in June. I have two more bags, bit stopped cause the lawn looked terrible and figured it would do nothing or stress it more 

FYI, here's the last soil report

 

 

[dendrite]

Okay...update on that plant I can’t figure out. Apparently one of the large trees out front is actually the parent tree to the others. It has berries that look like buckthorn, but I really don’t think that’s what it is. None of the smaller trees of it have berries. The large tree does have them higher up. All of the glossy buckthorn I have grows insane and puts out berries in the first year or two when they’re only a few feet high. The leaves look different too. I thought hackberry, but the leaves aren’t really a match. Does buckthorn grow as tall as the large tree in the picture is?

Unknown tree a bit to the right of the large clump red oak.

Bark of said tree in foregrund

If you look closely you’ll see some of the branches from the tree with berries hanging off of them

Comparison of leaves from a known glossy buckthorn and a branch from a smaller tree of the same species. Pics of common buckthorn look different from the leaves on the right as well.

[dendrite]

2 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

16 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Yeah...sounds like your grass, and even your weeds, are running out of “food”. You’d probably need to frequently fertilize it throughout the warm season to feed it without the addition of compost. It’s amazing what organic material can do to nutritionally starving plants. My plants that have been growing in composting wood chips for 2 years are growing amazing as the nutrients slowly feed in along with the beneficial fungi. I had a bunch of struggling potted plants that lit up after top dressing with that material and watering some fresh chicken manure into them. My front yard looks a little like yours. The zoysia out there is trying, but the soil out there is about as organic as a twinkie. 

But should u fertilize dead and/or dormant grass? I dropped one round in April and one in June. I have two more bags, bit stopped cause the lawn looked terrible and figured it would do nothing or stress it more

No. I would probably do what Bob recommended. You could probably just broadcast it in after aerating. Weeeee

 

[dendrite]

Nice before and after vid here.

 

[dendrite]

I’m leaning black cherry.

https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/prunus-serotina/

[#NoPoles]

12 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Choke cherry tree? Prunus virginiana?

I think it is a cherry, the bark looks like individual blocks, the leaves are narrow and toothed and are a dark waxy green. The fruit looks like a wild cherry. Im most used to seeing black cherry in SNE, and prunus fasciculata out west...

[Baroclinic Zone]

47 minutes ago, dendrite said:

No. I would probably do what Bob recommended. You could probably just broadcast it in after aerating. Weeeee

 

Yeah, he needs to improve his soil composition.  It may take a few years of doing this to really turn it around.  Focus on that and the grass will respond. 

[dendrite]

8 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

It could be a cherry. Damn it looks so familiar. The lenticels should help in identification

Check my edited post with link. Bark is a match too. Btw I still owe you shipping costs...haven’t forgotten.

[#NoPoles]

Just now, dendrite said:

Check my edited post with link. Bark is a match too. Btw I still owe you shipping costs...haven’t forgotten.

I also edited my post, lol. And i told you not to worry about shipping costs

do you have a plan yet for your hickories?

[dendrite]

4 minutes ago, #NoPoles said:

I also edited my post, lol. And i told you not to worry about shipping costs

do you have a plan yet for your hickories?

I’m going to try growing some directly by seed in the backyard. I tried some small potted plants that were grown in large tree pots, but even those didn’t transplant well. I feel like anything with a huge taproot needs to be directly planted. The extra ones I’ll probably try planting out in the woods and see how many can grow with out getting dug up by rodents.

[#NoPoles]

4 minutes ago, dendrite said:

I’m going to try growing some directly by seed in the backyard. I tried some small potted plants that were grown in large tree pots, but even those didn’t transplant well. I feel like anything with a huge taproot needs to be directly planted. The extra ones I’ll probably try planting out in the woods and see how many can grow with out getting dug up by rodents.

Last month, an entirely new round of hickory nuts started dropping. This new crop is getting annihilated by the squirrels. I never knew Hickories would produce two rounds of fruit. The ones I collected earlier and sent you, there was almost no squirrel interest. I guess the squirrels know the seasons will change soon and they are eating everything they can get their paws on.

[moneypitmike]

22 hours ago, SJonesWX said:

You need to get the seed to contact the soil. Just spreading it on top of the grass will be a waste of time and money. Aerate, or dethatch at a minimum.

Thanks.  Done.  Hoping for the best.

[tamarack]

12 hours ago, dendrite said:

I’m leaning black cherry.

https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/prunus-serotina/

The leaves in your pic (right side) look a bit wider than cherry leaves around here, but the bark is cherry - no other tree in the area has that blocky black skin.  If you can reach a twig, a scrape of the bark offers that "bitter almond" aroma diagnostic for the genus, which includes chokecherry (more a bush than tree) and pincherry, also called fire cherry as it's often on of the first trees after fire or clearcut.  It grows about as large as striped maple though it cannot tolerate shade.

[amarshall]

Hasn't rained on the south shore in weeks. Put down loam and seed on a hill Friday. Think I've gotten 2" of rain in the past 10 min. All gone. Complete waste of money

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Lava Rock]

As I'm pulling some of our dead and dormant grass away with my hand I see a lot of little pieces of what look like sawdust

[dendrite]

It's amazing how you were able to kill all of the crabgrass too. lol

I still like the compost idea Bob had. Keep upping the fertility.

[Lava Rock]

9 minutes ago, dendrite said:

It's amazing how you were able to kill all of the crabgrass too. lol

I still like the compost idea Bob had. Keep upping the fertility.

lol, that's not crabgrass, just "regular" grass. We essentially have three different areas of grass around the property that over the years either represent the "original" lawn when we built the house, new lawn/hydroseed (backyard) which is 2yrs old and last year's topsoil/hydroseed (front yard). I'm going to do a soil analysis on all three and see how the organic matter compares, among other things. I kind of know what to expect on the original lawn as we've had it tested before, but I want to see how the two more recent lawn projects compare. My guess is they will all look similar and have low levels of matter and nitrate.

As an experiment, I am going to overseed a small area with compost in the next couple weeks and see how that does. Didn't I say I wasn't going to spend more time and money on this stupid lawn????

[wxeyeNH]

3 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

lol, that's not crabgrass, just "regular" grass. We essentially have three different areas of grass around the property that over the years either represent the "original" lawn when we built the house, new lawn/hydroseed (backyard) which is 2yrs old and last year's topsoil/hydroseed (front yard). I'm going to do a soil analysis on all three and see how the organic matter compares, among other things. I kind of know what to expect on the original lawn as we've had it tested before, but I want to see how the two more recent lawn projects compare. My guess is they will all look similar and have low levels of matter and nitrate.

As an experiment, I am going to overseed a small area with compost in the next couple weeks and see how that does. Didn't I say I wasn't going to spend more time and money on this stupid lawn????

Hi Lava,

I only skim this thread from time to time.  Just my opinion but if you are going to overseed you should do it ASAP.  Everything slows way down,  wasn't it last fall they hydroseeded too late?  If I were going to plant grass I would have done it a week or two ago.  Longer night and less sun angle starts cooling the soil.   Yesterday was the first day I mowed down to 3.5".  Normally I mow at 4" all summer.  Nights in the 40's will be common soon

Good luck

[Lava Rock]

2 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

Hi Lava,

I only skim this thread from time to time.  Just my opinion but if you are going to overseed you should do it ASAP.  Everything slows way down,  wasn't it last fall they hydroseeded too late?  If I were going to plant grass I would have done it a week or two ago.  Longer night and less sun angle starts cooling the soil.   Yesterday was the first day I mowed down to 3.5".  Normally I mow at 4" all summer.  Nights in the 40's will be common soon

Good luck

yeah, they seeded last Oct. I thought about doing it in the next 2 wks or so. Maybe we'll get an indian summer.