March Banter 2019

[wxdude64]

11 hours ago, mdhokie said:

I just booked a trip to Breckenridge, CO. 310"+ for the season and they just got 18" last night. It's a 70 min drive from Denver. 

Only thing you're missing is a beach.

IF you can get there...son lives there and has sent some AWESOME (and scary) videos of avalanches past three days. I don't think Arapahoe even opened yesterday due to the threat. Monday evening he sent me a text saying only way in and out of Summit County for about 12 hours was thru Kremmling on 9 north. South to Fairplay was closed due to all the jackknifed 18 wheelers on Hoosier pass trying to detour 70 because it was closed at Officer's gulch west of Frisco and at Bakerfield east of tunnel from avalanches. Hope you have an awesome time, LOTS of terrain out there to ski/board on. 

EDIT- I missed that last line...actually there IS a beach on Lake Dillon on the Dillon side and at Frisco too, they just may be a tad chilly though lol!

[AfewUniversesBelowNormal]

Nice Spring day.

[das]

On 3/7/2019 at 7:30 AM, vastateofmind said:

Assuming you still want to remain in U.S., maybe western NY? Vermont? @das has shared some great pics from VT this winter.

@PhineasC  Tug Hill plateau in upstate NY and then coastal Maine are awesome but getting to an airport is tough.  BTV (Burlington) airport is just big enough that most carriers go there and there regular, daily direct flights to places like DC, NYC and Boston. The Champlain Vally gets the lowest totals in all of VT (typically 65-90" per year) but where you are in the valley really matters too.  The eastern side of the Valley, where there are considerable and plentiful classic Vermont towns edge up towards 85-90" and where I live during the weekends (Charlotte, Shelburn, Vergennes area) is like 80+" (I'm over 60" already this year with most of March to go and realistic chances in the first 2 weeks of April as well).  

30 minutes (not miles) due east gets you easily into the 150"+ zone.  Very cute places like Underhill or Stevensville.  30 minutes NNE gets you into the 100"+ areas as well.  Not all of this is elevation dependent either as froude backing in WNW flow events after a storm departs to the east is what typically bumps up those easter valley totals.  Light, fluffy snow similar to upslope snows.

It's deep winter pretty much the whole time.  You can count on 2-3 winter thaws each year with a deluge of rain sometimes accompanying but the patterns are an exact inverse of DMV.  Instead of mostly warm with incursions of cold, it's mostly cold with incursions of warm.  Having come from 26 years in the DC metro area, it feels like it snows all the time.  Look at my signature for frequencies and amounts.  Once you get the first significant snow of the year in November or December, snow piles stay 100% of the winter, 50% partial coverage is for 20% of the winter and 100% snowcover of varying depths is like 70% of winter.  All the ponds and lakes freeze enough to skate/ice fish from December through late March (or later) and even all the Lake Champlain bays and inlets freeze with the lake itself freezing over around once per decade.  

The cold is nice.  There are plenty of bluebird days but patterns don't last long up here, even when there is stable blocking as we are far enough west to get the northern stream impulses assaulting the block from the west.  Benchmark storms typically are too far east unless they are severely blocked then they back up into the Maine coast and we get decent wraparound snows.  The best track for east coast storms for us are coastal huggers and inland runners with a neutral or slightly positively tilted trough.  Negative tilts are a killer (we're actually quite far east of DMV even though we are quite far west of the coast) unless its a negative tilt for storms way east of the benchmark.   It's hard to pin down a "normal day" since things change so quickly up here.  There is a pretty even distribution of 17F/5F (hi/lo) days, 30F/15F days.  It's cloudier a bit more up here but when it is sunny, it's usually cold so there is not a lot of drip, drip, dripping.  0.5" - 2" snow happens all the time to pretty things up and reinforce the snow lost to sublimation.  

One last thing: The area is impervious to cold and snow.  During the cold and even during most snows, the city and towns just move along as if nothing is happening.  Snow removal is a absolute art.  Commerce continues.  Outdoor activities actually tick up from an already high level.  And, people get pretty excited. Everyone up here looks forward to the first snows and, even though they are nonplussed and unimpeded when the snows come, they are all happy when it does snow and pretty disappointed when it melts.

I'll add a couple of pics just for fun:

This is my front yard this morning.  It's looked basically like this all winter.  The snow on the walkway along the front of the house is from one of the many 1/2" toppers that move through.  Highs were in the teens and lows were in the low single digits the last few days (it's 5F right now at 10am) but it will jump to 30F today and we'll be in the 30's with lows in the teens and low 20's for the next few days before we get "cold" again.  That means tomorrows system that moves through will be snow showers in the morning till noon, white rain or a rain/snow mix in the afternoon and snow showers in the evening.  That is a typical "warm" storm for us.

This is my wife when we did a quick hike out to (and past) the offshore lighthouse on Lake Champlain last weekend after I picked her up from work.  We're probably over a half mile out on the lake at this point.  If you zoom in on the lighthouse, you can see others that are doing the same thing.  If you zoom in on the far right, you can see there are many other people out on the ice because, that's just what people do around here.  Along with snowshoeing, cross country skiing, snowmobiling, etc...

Edited to add:  Here's the normalized for the last 30 years snowfall map for VT.  It's pretty low rez as most microclimates are not represented but gives you a good idea.

 

[NorthArlington101]

The new weatherbell model site is... interesting. Feels like what weathermodels wanted to do. Probably going to use the old version until I'm forced to adapt but its not bad.

[wxdude64]

Hey das,

Used to travel that route all the time headed north on 22A before wife passed. She LOVED northern VT. We spent many weeks in the Stowe/Waterbury/Morristown area up to Jay/Troy and back thru Burke/Lyndon and St Johnsbury areas. I still have my Shaw's and Price Chopper' fobs on one of the key chains lol. We were looking at getting a second house until her sudden passing back in 2012. Son almost went to Lyndon State (NVT), made two visits to campus. BTW, those of you interested in Met they have a pretty good program and are a small school.

[EastCoast NPZ]

das just made me cry.

[backedgeapproaching]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:01 PM, PhineasC said:

What's the best place in the US to move with the following criteria:

1) Serious snowfall and snowcover

2) Extended stretches of cold

3) Access to at least a regional airport within 45 mins.

4) Somewhat built-up, at least a small city nearby.

From a few years back, New England focused though, but some good info.

Come to VT, we will pay you to live here 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/10/vermont-will-pay-you-10000-to-move-there-and-work-remotely---.html

 

[jonjon]

I'll put up another vote for Vermont.  I have my eyes set on a place up there someday, I try to get up there once a year (Waterbury).  I was inspired by their beer and my brewery is essentially a Vermont South version of what they put out. Their sense of craft, whether beer, cheese, maple syrup, etc., is truly inspiring to me.  Beautiful mountains, long snowy winters with few thaws, and summers that aren't too hot are definitely draws for me, too.

[snownut]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:01 PM, PhineasC said:

What's the best place in the US to move with the following criteria:

1) Serious snowfall and snowcover

2) Extended stretches of cold

3) Access to at least a regional airport within 45 mins.

4) Somewhat built-up, at least a small city nearby.

No doubt I am biased because I love where I moved but I think you would love the western states. (Unless you like hot humid summers with lots of insects when you are outdoors) then west is best.  

Year round access to snow here.  Serious snow cover from October into June.  Summits average more than 600" of snow per year.  Great regional airport just 16 miles north of me.  Rapidly growing mid sized city with endless events and activities.  Crazy diverse climate zones over a short distance.  If you like storms then summers here can be boring as you can go weeks and weeks and not even see a cloud.  Negative the fire season can mess with air quality.  August is typically the peak month for fire risks.  

I live pretty much in the center of the circle on the map.  Almost 100% of the annual precip on the summits falls a snow. 

 

 

 

[das]

15 minutes ago, jonjon said:

I'll put up another vote for Vermont.  I have my eyes set on a place up there someday, I try to get up there once a year (Waterbury).  I was inspired by their beer and my brewery is essentially a Vermont South version of what they put out. Their sense of craft, whether beer, cheese, maple syrup, etc., is truly inspiring to me.  Beautiful mountains, long snowy winters with few thaws, and summers that aren't too hot are definitely draws for me, too.

Completely agree.  The craft brewing up here is DIVINE.  If your brewery is anywhere as good as your B&B was, I'll definitely have to make a trip out to check it out!

[psuhoffman]

14 minutes ago, das said:

Completely agree.  The craft brewing up here is DIVINE.  If your brewery is anywhere as good as your B&B was, I'll definitely have to make a trip out to check it out!

Would you say Montpelier is the best “larger town” for big snows and not being in a shadow effect up there?  

[jonjon]

4 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Would you say Montpelier is the best “larger town” for big snows and not being in a shadow effect up there?  

Seems like anything east of the Green Mountains does well.  See current snow cover up there here https://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/interactive/html/map.html?ql=station&zoom=5&loc=44.621+N%2C+73.238+W&var=ssm_depth&dy=2019&dm=3&dd=8&dh=17&snap=1&o9=1&o12=1&o13=1&lbl=m&mode=pan&extents=us&min_x=-73.858333333336&min_y=43.566666666662&max_x=-71.983333333336&max_y=44.624999999996&coord_x=-72.920833333336&coord_y=44.095833333329&zbox_n=&zbox_s=&zbox_e=&zbox_w=&metric=0&bgvar=dem&shdvar=shading&width=800&height=450&nw=800&nh=450&h_o=0&font=0&js=1&uc=0

Its like there is some CAD that protects areas east of the mountains from the brief thaws they do get.

[snownut]

Come visit and get hooked.  We had never even heard of this place until an August vacation in 2012.  First time I had ever played in the snow on my August birthday. LOL

https://www.visitbend.com/

And we have serious craft brew world here.  https://www.visitbend.com/bend-ale-trail/

I have clients that retired here from Vermont, another from PA, and a buddy that retired here from VA.

(I would agree that VT & NH are very beautiful. Better fall colors there for sure. I learned to ski in VT)

Here we have way bigger mountains, way more snow, better year-round weather, amazing food and lots of lakes to play and explore, much lower real estate taxes than Vermont.  

On 3/6/2019 at 9:01 PM, PhineasC said:

What's the best place in the US to move with the following criteria:

1) Serious snowfall and snowcover

2) Extended stretches of cold

3) Access to at least a regional airport within 45 mins.

4) Somewhat built-up, at least a small city nearby.

 

[psuhoffman]

North Conway NH also seems to do pretty good...

[psuhoffman]

Only talking about among "bigger towns" as one thing my wife requests when we move is that we at least live somewhere that isn't totally completely off the grid.  Preferably somewhere we don't have to drive an hour to go shopping and stuff like that.  Obviously there are tiny little towns at high elevations that do better but those two seem the best of the bigger towns up there.  

[AfewUniversesBelowNormal]

March 8th. 0 STW's 

 

[das]

40 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Would you say Montpelier is the best “larger town” for big snows and not being in a shadow effect up there?  

Yes.  At 7,500 people, it's the smallest state capital but in the top 10 or so in population here in Vermont.  Other larger "cities" are in the shadows to the east and west.  Looking at population stats can be misleading here in Vermont.  My little town, Charlotte, has 3,500 people but the "downtown" is 5 or 6 buildings, 2 of which are businesses and a relatively large agricultural area.  Vergennes, 15 miles south, has less people but is a thriving town with 50-75+ businesses, restaurants, churches, etc... arranged in a classic Vermont layout with a central town square.  So, it is much more "town/city" like.  Montpillier is the exact same way.  The town center is pretty large and picturesque. But there are more people in the outlying areas.  Imagine, if you will, maybe Frederick MD.  But, take away 1/2 of the businesses and replace them with a State Capital building, a federal building, some court houses and a bunch of state government buildings.  That look more New England style (brick, stone, columns, etc...) than ugly Bauhaus structures.   And craft breweries and outdoors/ski shops every 3rd storefront...  And, cool people that are more about you as a person than what you do or who you know or what you have.

[87storms]

i'm done with winter after this event as far as cold temps are concerned, but i'm open to one more snowstorm (only way i'll tolerate more cold).

[MillvilleWx]

4 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

North Conway NH also seems to do pretty good...

I love the White Mountain area. Absolutely beautiful landscape and very friendly people. They get a fair amount of snow in the valley, and the notches like Crawford and Pinkham can get blasted on a good setup synoptic or upslope. I def want to go back and visit. 

[WxUSAF]

3 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

North Conway NH also seems to do pretty good...

We have friends just across the ME border from there. They’ve been blasted the last few years even by their standards.

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, MillvilleWx said:

I love the White Mountain area. Absolutely beautiful landscape and very friendly people. They get a fair amount of snow in the valley, and the notches like Crawford and Pinkham can get blasted on a good setup synoptic or upslope. I def want to go back and visit. 

 

1 hour ago, WxUSAF said:

We have friends just across the ME border from there. They’ve been blasted the last few years even by their standards.

My wife is good with either Colorado or New England someday and somewhere that gets a lot of snow but she had requested not somewhere we have to drive an hour or more to do anything. So it can’t be totally secluded. A place like North Conway might be the best mix.  Good snow.  Enough to do there and close to great skiing. I love Wildcat.  I like resorts where it’s about the skiing like Arapahoe and Wildcat.  

[CAPE]

6 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

North Conway NH also seems to do pretty good...

Very good actually. A buddy of mine who is a bit of a nomad and big into skiing, has been "living" near there the past 2 winters. He is basically between there and Mt Washington. That area does very well, even in very flawed events when places not too far S are mixing or raining. He also really enjoys the culture in that area.

[Dan76]

2 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

 

My wife is good with either Colorado or New England someday and somewhere that gets a lot of snow but she had requested not somewhere we have to drive an hour or more to do anything. So it can’t be totally secluded. A place like North Conway might be the best mix.  Good snow.  Enough to do there and close to great skiing. I love Wildcat.  I like resorts where it’s about the skiing like Arapahoe and Wildcat.  

Summit county CO easy drive to 5 mountains and pretty good shopping in silverthorne (Though a little high in alt )

[mattie g]

Headed to Oklahoma City on Monday and looks like a severe threat in the middle of the week. Don’t know a thing about severe, so I wonder how much of a threat it really is. 

[aldie 22]

5 minutes ago, mattie g said:

Headed to Oklahoma City on Monday and looks like a severe threat in the middle of the week. Don’t know a thing about severe, so I wonder how much of a threat it really is. 

Stay away from trailer parks

[nj2va]

6th straight win by the Caps. Whoop!

[psuhoffman]

1 hour ago, Dan76 said:

Summit county CO easy drive to 5 mountains and pretty good shopping in silverthorne (Though a little high in alt )

The area has become very expensive 

[BristowWx]

8 minutes ago, nj2va said:

6th straight win by the Caps. Whoop!

Now I  understand why you avatar says Capitals.  I thought it was a venture capital firm.  i looked online and that’s a DC hockey team.  You are a fan so congrats on the win.  Didn’t realize DC had a hockey team.  

[BristowWx]

6 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

I guess if I had to pick a dream spot i could move to for best snow chances that was still on the East coast I'd pick Redfield, NY in the Tug hill plateau.  Probably have to wait till retirement because my electrical license only reciprocates to neighboring states so that's that lol. 

Worcester, Ma might be my 2nd choice .

I’d pick coastal Maine. Went to Kennebunkport last summer.  Needed a sweatshirt in July.  Amazing scenery.  Great snow climo and lobster. Bit pricey however.  

[Harv_poor]

On 3/7/2019 at 12:01 AM, PhineasC said:

What's the best place in the US to move with the following criteria:

1) Serious snowfall and snowcover

2) Extended stretches of cold

3) Access to at least a regional airport within 45 mins.

4) Somewhat built-up, at least a small city nearby.

How about the foothills of Salt Lake City? Definitely has (3) and (4) and (1) and (2) are only limited by how far up foothills you want to live. Alta and Snowbird with there 500+ average inches of snow are less then an hour away. Its been a long time  since I lived there but there seemed to be snow most of the time from November to April.