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March 3-4, 2019 Snow Discussion and Obs


WxUSAF
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1 minute ago, BristowWx said:

GFS looks a warmer/heights higher as the Saturday low is further east. not a lot but it wont take a lot for me to be out so I am hyper focused on this.  Just a tick.  might be noise but I see it compared to 6z

r/s line is literally over my house. Not a huge shift tho so im ok for now. need the euro to come south tho for me to feel a little better

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7 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

GFS took a tiny step back.  It's one run.  Like I said, nobody should be panicking or definitive until at least 12z tomorrow.  With so many players on the field, there is no point in zeroing in on one solution.  I'm going to wait until the coastal gets out of the way

All true, but no weenie is going to be happy when the two models that showed snow no longer do so.  

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6 minutes ago, Deer Whisperer said:

r/s line is literally over my house. Not a huge shift tho so im ok for now. need the euro to come south tho for me to feel a little better

we have no wiggle room at all at our location.  I am just watching thickness and 546.  we need Saturday storm to hug coast and get stronger and to the right location.  not much to ask.  no reason to sweat it now.  it is what it will be

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12z GFS is 6mb stronger as the low exits the cost just south of the VA/NC line.  Would think this is a pos trend (if it continues) for areas that are right on that line.  I could see how a uniform 3-6" falls regardless of location.  MBY will most likely be all snow but areas SE of me have a chance at a real changeover and thump being closer to the better dynamics of a strengthening low.  

eta: FV3 with a 994 now

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18 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

GFS took a tiny step back, but still a hit.  It's one run.  Like I said, nobody should be panicking or definitive until at least 12z tomorrow.  With so many players on the field, there is no point in zeroing in on one solution.  I'm going to wait until the coastal gets out of the way

I was rooting for more south trend today... as the typical adjustment the final 36 hours or so with these waves is north.  I know no one wants to hear that, myself included, but we all know it in the back of our minds...so I think more than just a small adjustment on one or two runs right now...what probably has people frustrated is knowing we don't have enough wiggle room for the inevitable slight adjustment north that will come at game time.  

ETA:  every once in a while something can buck that trend though...both storms in March 2014 trended south at the last minute so it does happen sometimes...but its not often enough to feel comfy going into the final stretch on the southern border of snow.  

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5 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

GFS took a tiny step back, but still a hit.  It's one run.  Like I said, nobody should be panicking or definitive until at least 12z tomorrow.  With so many players on the field, there is no point in zeroing in on one solution.  I'm going to wait until the coastal gets out of the way

Yeah, it's hard to say...one run and all that.  Agree that once tonight's coastal is actually out of the way and "known" better, perhaps we'll get a better lock on exactly what the Sunday/Monday event will do.  For whatever it's worth, I went back and forth on the 24-h precip ending 18Z Monday, looking back through 00Z last night.  Today's 12Z cycle has a noticeable increase in QPF over our region, both in terms of amount and coverage, if you flip back over the past 2-3 cycles (though that big max stripe in the southeast around AL/GA decreases).  The low is also stronger and a bit more tucked on the NC coast (it was a bit farther south and off the NC coast at 00Z, and off the Delmarva at 06Z.  These may be just back and forth oscillations, but those are the most "notable" things I saw at least at the surface.  Hard to say if there's much change at 500, other than maybe some more lifting/ridging of the flow to the northeast in the 12Z cycle compared to the past couple runs.

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6 minutes ago, Always in Zugzwang said:

Yeah, it's hard to say...one run and all that.  Agree that once tonight's coastal is actually out of the way and "known" better, perhaps we'll get a better lock on exactly what the Sunday/Monday event will do.  For whatever it's worth, I went back and forth on the 24-h precip ending 18Z Monday, looking back through 00Z last night.  Today's 12Z cycle has a noticeable increase in QPF over our region, both in terms of amount and coverage, if you flip back over the past 2-3 cycles (though that big max stripe in the southeast around AL/GA decreases).  The low is also stronger and a bit more tucked on the NC coast (it was a bit farther south and off the NC coast at 00Z, and off the Delmarva at 06Z.  These may be just back and forth oscillations, but those are the most "notable" things I saw at least at the surface.  Hard to say if there's much change at 500, other than maybe some more lifting/ridging of the flow to the northeast in the 12Z cycle compared to the past couple runs.

Yeah, I think the Euro will remain warm west for now and of course people will jump.  I noticed the heavier QPF as well so far on the 12z.  We're so close, so this won't take much to get us where we want it.  I'm holding until 12z tomm.

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10 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

I was rooting for more south trend today... as the typical adjustment the final 36 hours or so with these waves is north.  I know no one wants to hear that, myself included, but we all know it in the back of our minds...so I think more than just a small adjustment on one or two runs right now...what probably has people frustrated is knowing we don't have enough wiggle room for the inevitable slight adjustment north that will come at game time.  

ETA:  every once in a while something can buck that trend though...both storms in March 2014 trended south at the last minute so it does happen sometimes...but its not often enough to feel comfy going into the final stretch on the southern border of snow.  

why do you need to see that today with that coastal tonight to still come through?

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11 minutes ago, Always in Zugzwang said:

Yeah, it's hard to say...one run and all that.  Agree that once tonight's coastal is actually out of the way and "known" better, perhaps we'll get a better lock on exactly what the Sunday/Monday event will do.  For whatever it's worth, I went back and forth on the 24-h precip ending 18Z Monday, looking back through 00Z last night.  Today's 12Z cycle has a noticeable increase in QPF over our region, both in terms of amount and coverage, if you flip back over the past 2-3 cycles (though that big max stripe in the southeast around AL/GA decreases).  The low is also stronger and a bit more tucked on the NC coast (it was a bit farther south and off the NC coast at 00Z, and off the Delmarva at 06Z.  These may be just back and forth oscillations, but those are the most "notable" things I saw at least at the surface.  Hard to say if there's much change at 500, other than maybe some more lifting/ridging of the flow to the northeast in the 12Z cycle compared to the past couple runs.

It hinges on the coastal tonight/tomorrow in the NE.  GFS/ICON were leading the way in having that thing bomb out and as a result it wouldn't leave enough room for this storm to amplify as much leading to a flatter/snowier solution for us.  Euro has been the weakest (relative term) with the coastal tonight so it has shown a further North and stronger wave Sunday.  I know everything isn't 1:1 but that to me seems to be what's causing the deviances in strength and track.

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16 minutes ago, leesburg 04 said:

why do you need to see that today with that coastal tonight to still come through?

I don't... I am not saying this is done for, tonight storm could impact this and perhaps models aren't yet seeing it fully.  But by now they should be able to calculate the impacts of the coastal since its being modeled better.   This could still come south more tonight and then we have wiggle room.  Or maybe it never adjusts north at the last minute...sometimes they dont.  There are NO hard rules in this game.  

I was simply saying I would rather see another south shift right now on guidance.  That is all.  Don't want to make more of it than that.  

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

I don't... I am not saying this is done for, tonight storm could impact this and perhaps models aren't yet seeing it fully.  But by now they should be able to calculate the impacts of the coastal since its being modeled better.   This could still come south more tonight and then we have wiggle room.  Or maybe it never adjusts north at the last minute...sometimes they dont.  There are NO hard rules in this game.  

I was simply saying I would rather see another south shift right now on guidance.  That is all.  Don't want to make more of it than that.  

Understood...did sound like you were hoping to see it move south today though...I'm thinking you're in a good spot for tonight and Monday...I might have to visit my friend up there to join in the fun.

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Just now, leesburg 04 said:

Understood...did sound like you were hoping to see it move south today though...I'm thinking you're in a good spot for tonight and Monday...I might have to visit my friend up there to join in the fun.

 About time my climo kicks in, its been completely useless so far this year lol.  

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20 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

 About time my climo kicks in, its been completely useless so far this year lol.  

You have just been unlucky this year. The majority of the favored areas in the DC corridor are at or above climo. The FV3 is such a weenie run that it would most likely get you close to climo within the next week :)

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2 minutes ago, AfewUniversesBelowNormal said:

I can't believe there are precip type issues with -NAO. <- I wrote that earlier. 

Now the 12z GFS is cold. 

(Where's the activity?)

Um, this happens a lot.  Including March 2001 and half the events in KU.   I95  mixed during the Blizzard of 96,  the PDII and Feb 10 2010.

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5 minutes ago, stormtracker said:

As expected, Euro not budging.  Rain for all

ETA: brief period of snow at the start for the usual N and W folks

actually its pretty close to where the GFS/FV3 are with the fall line

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UKMET, GFS CMC all agree on the low position at 72hrs, about 120 miles south of  eastern Long Island.    FV3 is about 50 miles north, but the Euro is over SE mass.   Euro is definitely an outlier,   but can still be right with some small adjustments.

 

GFS and the ICON have the R/S line further southeast than other models. They maybe considered outlier too.

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