A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Riverhead (which is more like central LI) got 25.0 inches. Wow, quite the difference between there and Montauk.... although Montauk is in its own climate zone, surrounded by water on three sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think so...maybe more. You are in a hell hole for snow (relatively speaking). Do you think there's a part of the Island that averages less than 20 inches of snow a year? Mine is around 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Everyone on the Island got more than 20" save for way out on the South Fork. And us out in western LI with our piddly little 14 inches which probably werent accurate lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Do you think there's a part of the Island that averages less than 20 inches of snow a year? Mine is around 22. Your location is probably just about the min. Maybe an inch or 2 less on FI, but not on the main island. I'm not even sure you average that little. Are you going by the previous 30 years at JFK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I can't argue with that. I may have given too much weight to the past decade. OKX is in a decent spot, but I think they are an inch or two off the mark for the main snow belt. East of there I have no doubt that averages fall off. Ed, do you have doubts sometimes about the OKX snowfall totals? They always seem at or very near the top for almost every storm. I know an NWS met measures it himself, so maybe the other measurements in the area are too low? Or do you think OKX might be a bit high sometimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 And us out in western LI with our piddly little 14 inches which probably werent accurate lol. 20" at Rosedale, 22" at Long Beach. If JFK was accurate, it was a fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A bit off topic, but your post about the hardness of the snow pack reminded me of a hike I did in mid-April of my last semester of college up the slope of Mount Marcy, the highest peak in the Adirondacks (and in all of NY State). The top 4" or so of the snow pack was hard and icy, but about once every minute or so, my feet would penetrate that layer and spontaneously sink into the 1 to 1.5 foot snow pack. It was one of the most challenging hikes I ever did, made even more so by the 15 degree temperatures and 0 degree wind chills where we camped that night in the foothills of Mount Marcy. Thanks for posting some exceptional links. I am very pleased to see records being kept at Northport and Mt. Sinai as well as the older Centerport station. Last winter Mt Sinai recorded in the neighborhood of 68" of snow; this substantiated the claims of people in my part of Suffolk that it had been an exceptionally snowy winter in our region...and did a nice job of supporting the Upton snowfall total. I went out to measure the depth of snow about 10 minutes ago; to my absolute amazement....my feet did not sink one inch through the snow...the pack has become so hardened...like walking on water...frozen water, that is. The metallic yardstick had its problems penetrating the icy sheath; but when the base was reached, the depth came to 11 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your location is probably just about the min. Maybe an inch or 2 less on FI, but not on the main island. I'm not even sure you average that little. Are you going by the previous 30 years at JFK? Yeah, theyre 21.7 I believe. The funny thing is, NYC's urbanization has actually put them close to that number also-- I believe they average 22.3 So the avg snowfall difference is now about half an inch between NYC and JFK if you go by 30 year means (which is all you can do since thats about how far the climate record at JFK goes.) I have grave doubts of the snowfall measuring at JFK though, especially the 37" this year. But they were pretty good in the 90s, so I take their 30 year mean to be reasonably accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ed, do you have doubts sometimes about the OKX snowfall totals? They always seem at or very near the top for almost every storm. I know an NWS met measures it himself, so maybe the other measurements in the area are too low? Or do you think OKX might be a bit high sometimes? A couple of times recently I wondered, but the fact is they have been on a legitimate roll. I often wonder why I seem to be near the bottom of the list...then along comes a storm when I am not. Its just dumb luck sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A bit off topic, but your post about the hardness of the snow pack reminded me of a hike I did in mid-April of my last semester of college up the slope of Mount Marcy, the highest peak in the Adirondacks (and in all of NY State). The top 4" or so of the snow pack was hard and icy, but about once every minute or so, my feet would penetrate that layer and spontaneously sink into the 1 to 1.5 foot snow pack. It was one of the most challenging hikes I ever did, made even more so by the 15 degree temperatures and 0 degree wind chills where we camped that night in the foothills of Mount Marcy. Wow, great stuff! I hiked Giant Mountain in the Adirondacks in April 2008; there was still about two feet of snowpack, and it was a very tricky hike with several exposed sections and lots of ice...I think the summit is around 4700'. I've done Marcy before but only in the summer...it's gorgeous up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 20" at Rosedale, 22" at Long Beach. If JFK was accurate, it was a fluke. I'd go with JM's measurement of 22" at Long Beach (just kidding JM, I know you werent around back then lol.) The funny thing is LGA also measured 14" Maybe 1977-78 and 2010-11 will have measurement inaccuracies in common, as it seems like the airports do poorly in windy snowstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, great stuff! I hiked Giant Mountain in the Adirondacks in April 2008; there was still about two feet of snowpack, and it was a very tricky hike with several exposed sections and lots of ice...I think the summit is around 4700'. I've done Marcy before but only in the summer...it's gorgeous up there. Wow, how steep is it? I've always wanted to hike up there. I have a mental image of a very sheer cliff and a mountain that goes straight up and you holding onto it with dear life, trying not to look below haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A bit off topic, but your post about the hardness of the snow pack reminded me of a hike I did in mid-April of my last semester of college up the slope of Mount Marcy, the highest peak in the Adirondacks (and in all of NY State). The top 4" or so of the snow pack was hard and icy, but about once every minute or so, my feet would penetrate that layer and spontaneously sink into the 1 to 1.5 foot snow pack. It was one of the most challenging hikes I ever did, made even more so by the 15 degree temperatures and 0 degree wind chills where we camped that night in the foothills of Mount Marcy. Snowshoes! No postholing! http://www.flickr.com/photos/druclimb/5292056065/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 A couple of times recently I wondered, but the fact is they have been on a legitimate roll. I often wonder why I seem to be near the bottom of the list...then along comes a storm when I am not. Its just dumb luck sometimes. Yeah the 00s might have been the best decade ever on Long Island for snowfall..... you beat ORH twice I believe (including last winter).... its sort of like taking a little of new england climatology and mid atlantic climatology and combining it. If Southern New England has a good winter and the Mid Atlantic doesnt, that part of Long Island usually does OK because they share in some of SNE's snows; if its the reverse, then they still do OK most of the time, because they catch some of the snow from storms that exit to the south that NE doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, how steep is it? I've always wanted to hike up there. I have a mental image of a very sheer cliff and a mountain that goes straight up and you holding onto it with dear life, trying not to look below haha. Giant Mountain is pretty steep; I think the trail starts at around 1800' so you have a vertical ascent near 3000' in only a few miles. It's a fairly benign hike from a technical perspective in summer, but with snow/ice it can be treacherous. Yeah the 00s might have been the best decade ever on Long Island for snowfall..... you beat ORH twice I believe (including last winter).... its sort of like taking a little of new england climatology and mid atlantic climatology and combining it. If Southern New England has a good winter and the Mid Atlantic doesnt, that part of Long Island usually does OK because they share in some of SNE's snows; if its the reverse, then they still do OK most of the time, because they catch some of the snow from storms that exit to the south that NE doesnt. LI just got killed in 04-05 and all of NYC metro did great in 02-03. I beat most of New England last winter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hey I see uofmiami in here-- how much snow do you think you average in Muttontown? I know youre like the coldest spot in Nassau County and you told me you had snowcover there for most of the 2008-09 winter, so Im pretty sure you have over 6" on the ground right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Northrport site is part of APRSWXNET: http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/station_total.cgi?stn=D1086 Mount Sinai has an APRSWXNET station within 0.5 mile of the co-op station, but the elevation and lat/lon are slightly different. Thanks, I really appreciate this! Are they part of MADIS or APRXNET? I see stations like that on wunderground but when I punched in the call letters for these stations on wunderground (Northport and Mt. Sinai) it came back empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 My parents live in East Hills and I could probably persuade them to measure snow depth occasionally However, they live in the lower elevation part of East Hills (elevation about 180 ft). I wish I could find a station near East Hills or Muttontown, because I know a member from there who tells me they have great durability of snowcover out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The Riverhead Research Farm co-op site is actually 1 mi from LI Sound in Baiting Hollow, about 4 mi NNW of Riverhead. It is the black dot with a yellow ring on this map. Riverhead (which is more like central LI) got 25.0 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The urbanization in NYC hasn't gotten much worse in the past 30 years, Alex. NYC Central Park is still a few inches snowier than JFK due to their location further north. I believe 40 year averages are better in our current climate regime, because that includes a decent balance of snowy years and non snowy years. The 40 year average (1970-71 to 2009-2010) for NYC Central Park is 24.3". I haven't calculated the 40 year avg. for JFK, but it's probably about 22" Yeah, theyre 21.7 I believe. The funny thing is, NYC's urbanization has actually put them close to that number also-- I believe they average 22.3 So the avg snowfall difference is now about half an inch between NYC and JFK if you go by 30 year means (which is all you can do since thats about how far the climate record at JFK goes.) I have grave doubts of the snowfall measuring at JFK though, especially the 37" this year. But they were pretty good in the 90s, so I take their 30 year mean to be reasonably accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Do they provide yearly snowfall totals for that location, JConsor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't know about Giant Mtn., but regarding Mt. Marcy - there's no sheer cliffs, just a gradually climbing trail. It's about 5000 ft at the summit. Definitely best done once the snow pack has melted And on one of the trails near Mt. Marcy, you get to enjoy stunning views like this of Lake Colden: ( ) Wow, how steep is it? I've always wanted to hike up there. I have a mental image of a very sheer cliff and a mountain that goes straight up and you holding onto it with dear life, trying not to look below haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The urbanization in NYC hasn't gotten much worse in the past 30 years, Alex. NYC Central Park is still a few inches snowier than JFK due to their location further north. I believe 40 year averages are better in our current climate regime, because that includes a decent balance of snowy years and non snowy years. The 40 year average (1970-71 to 2009-2010) for NYC Central Park is 24.3". I haven't calculated the 40 year avg. for JFK, but it's probably about 22" I was trying to compare the entire climate history of NYC vs the most recent 30 year average. Do you, by any chance have the thirty or forty year normals ending in 1970? I know the 1970s and 1980s were aberrant because they were so below the norm, so Im wondering what the snowfall average was before the 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The 40 year avg. from 1930-31 to 1969-70 for NYC Central Park is 27.6". http://www.erh.noaa.gov/okx/climate/records/monthseasonsnowfall.html I was trying to compare the entire climate history of NYC vs the most recent 30 year average. Do you, by any chance have the thirty or forty year normals ending in 1970? I know the 1970s and 1980s were aberrant because they were so below the norm, so Im wondering what the snowfall average was before the 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Central Park had 10" on the ground this morning...It is the 16th day in a row with at least 10" on the ground...This ties the record set in 1947-48... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulen Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Clinbed Marcy in 1982 alot of acid rain back then but it was beautiful i hope the ecosystem is in better shape avalance lake is awesome but it was dead at the time. I would like to believe the area is in better shape now i haven't been up there since see ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Soon I will post Snow Depth Days from the co-op sites on Long Island, as well as Upton. However, while doing some quality-checking, I came across some glaring inconsistencies between snowfall and snow depth for the Dec 26-27 event. Unfortunately, even for co-op sites and other semi-official sites like Upton, these types of errors are not uncommon. Keep in mind the snow ended around 14z on Dec 27 in eastern and central Suffolk County, and only around 0.5 to 2" fell after 12z Dec 27. Radar loop: http://radblast-sf.w...=640&height=480 Here are the numbers for Dec 26-27 - it's easy to see what doesn't belong There is ample evidence from surrounding reports that the snowfall for Upton is too high, and the snow depth for Mount Sinai too low. Upton's snowfall for the event should be about 15", and Mount Sinai's depth at 0z Dec 28 should have been about 13". The Dec 26-27 event was all snow at Upton, and temps only reached the mid 20s during the event. So there is no reason much melting of falling snow would have occurred - only some compaction because the snow was fairly dry and winds were quite strong. Even with the strong winds, it seems to be stretching the limits of possibility that the snow on the ground could have compacted 4-5" while snow was still falling. Centerport: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 15.0" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 28: 12" Islip Airport: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 14.2" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 13" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 28: 12" Upton Snowfall Dec 26-27:: 18.8" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 13" Mount Sinai: Snowfall: 14.4" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 9" ---- Also, the snowfall total for Crab Meadow for the Dec 26-27 event seems quite low . Crab Meadow is 0.5 miles from LI Sound, between Centerport and Smithtown, and within 2 miles of East Northport. All of the stations below (except for Smithtown) are part of the NWS COCORAHS network. Smithtown data is from NorthShoreWx. Northport 2 NNE (Crab Meadow): Snowfall Dec 26-27: 9.1" Smithtown, NY Snowfall Dec 26-27: 12" East Northport, NY: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 15" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Upton, Long Island (Brookhaven Nat'l Laboratory) had 9" on the ground as of this morning. Amazingly, they have not lost snow cover since Monday. They now have 47 straight days of at least 1" snow cover. The record streak for at least 1" snow cover at Upton is 55 days - from Dec 26, 1947 to Feb 18, 1948. http://www.bnl.gov/w...st/extreme.html Looks to be difficult but not impossible for them to at least tie the record. 3 more days of snow cover seems assured, but Sun/Mon and late next week will likely see big losses with warm temps and SW flow. Central Park had 10" on the ground this morning...It is the 16th day in a row with at least 10" on the ground...This ties the record set in 1947-48... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Very nice. Is "Rick" your alias or are those someone else's photos? I don't know about Giant Mtn., but regarding Mt. Marcy - there's no sheer cliffs, just a gradually climbing trail. It's about 5000 ft at the summit. Definitely best done once the snow pack has melted And on one of the trails near Mt. Marcy, you get to enjoy stunning views like this of Lake Colden: (http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Someone else's photos - I haven't been back to the Adirondacks since 2002. Hoping to return this summer Very nice. Is "Rick" your alias or are those someone else's photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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