A-L-E-X Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 This makes my point perfectly. All storms have some imperfections. Either too progressive, too warm, too suppressed, or some dry slotting. No storm can be utterly perfect enough to yield 3" quantitative, all snow, at decent, i.e. greater than 12:1 ratios. JBG, some of it is a matter of luck. Had NYC been where Cape May is, they would have gotten close to 3 feet of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I agree, and if 3/1888 has occurred a month earlier who knows how much more would have fallen, and over a larger area. I wonder if April 1982 featured those kinds of negative departures; I believe Newark had a low of 19, which was there only ever recorded temp in the teens in April. The whole week following that Blizzard was amazingly cold. The April temps in NYC were not as far below normal as 3/1888, but mostly because April records/departures tend to be about 10F closer to the averages than in March, as March is closer than in Jan/Feb. I have no doubt that 4/7/1982 is the coldest NYC day compared to normal in their records. (And that came after the snow; the 24-hr period from, say, 7A on 4/6 thru 7A on 4/7 probably had temps something like 27/21.) Coldest April mean: 4/1/23 with 24.0 (36/12, coldest minimum for April), but: 2nd coldest mean (tie): 4/5/1881 and 4/7/1982, each 25.5 on 30/21 (coldest maxima for April.) Nothing later than 4/7 had a mean lower than 33. No April day since 1944, other than 4/7/1982, has had a maximum 35 or below. I found 5 April days with maxima 32 or lower, 4-5/1879 (32,32), 5-6/1881 (30,31), and 4/7/1982. April avg temps: 1876-1900: 49.19 (surrogate for 1851-1880 30-yr) 1891-1920: 50.01 1951-1980: 52.42 Thus the 1982 record was set at a time when April avg was 3.2F milder than 1881 and 2.4F milder than 1923, and later than either. (That later date probably adds 2F to 1982's margin over 1923, and 2/3F over 1881.) 4/7/1982 was probably 24-25F below normal; a similarly anomalous airmass in Jan might be 35-40 below normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I love the fact that the park still has a 16 inch snow depth as of this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Tomorrow will mark the 10th consecutive day of 12"+ snow depth in Central Park and EWR. Looking back at last year, 2006, 2003 and 96 the most I could find was 9 consecutive days. I'm curious as to what the record is and the last time we had 10 days in a row with at least that much snow on the ground. I would think we'd have to go back to either 78 or 83 but even then I'm not sure how long the snow lasted. I love the fact that the park still has a 16 inch snow depth as of this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaner587 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Tomorrow will mark the 10th consecutive day of 12"+ snow depth in Central Park and EWR. Looking back at last year, 2006, 2003 and 96 the most I could find was 9 consecutive days. I'm curious as to what the record is and the last time we had 10 days in a row with at least that much snow on the ground. I would think we'd have to go back to either 78 or 83 but even then I'm not sure how long the snow lasted. we are currently tied with 95-95 and 60-61 with 10 consecutive days of 10+. Tomorrow will mark the 11th day and we will be a sole possession of 2nd place only behind 47-48(16 days) which we would need to get to next thurs to tie and next fri to overtake it. If we can manage 2-4 or 3-6 with the storm on Mon-tues then we have a shot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlover74 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I would think if we make it to monday, day 13 then that will be it, however if we ended up getting a few inches could sneak back over the 10" mark and then add it to it at the end of the week, then we could be looking at 18-20 days or more. However if we just look at days with 12"+ then I would guess we are already #2 with that. we are currently tied with 95-95 and 60-61 with 10 consecutive days of 10+. Tomorrow will mark the 11th day and we will be a sole possession of 2nd place only behind 47-48(16 days) which we would need to get to next thurs to tie and next fri to overtake it. If we can manage 2-4 or 3-6 with the storm on Mon-tues then we have a shot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 we are currently tied with 95-95 and 60-61 with 10 consecutive days of 10+. Tomorrow will mark the 11th day and we will be a sole possession of 2nd place only behind 47-48(16 days) which we would need to get to next thurs to tie and next fri to overtake it. If we can manage 2-4 or 3-6 with the storm on Mon-tues then we have a shot.. I agree we need one of these upcoming storms to produce at least a little something. Even so, I think if the weather stays cold and dry, well have at least 10 by next Friday. This snow is solid like cement it's not like we're going to have compacting to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 as of tomorrow 2/5/11 this is how this winter stacks up so far to the greatest... year....................total days..................................consecutive days.................................................................. season.............1"..........4"........10"........20".............1"............4"..........10"..........20".....max depth................. 2010-11............42........35........18..........4...............42............16..........11.............3.............23" 2002-03............42........23..........5..........1...............25............12...........5..............1.............20" LGA 1995-96............55........35........14..........6...............17............12.........10..............6.............26" LGA 1993-94............74........31..........8..........3...............40............13...........8..............3.............22" 1977-78............56........30........12..........0...............35............20...........6..............0.............19" 1960-61............52........41........20..........3...............32............30..........10.............3.............25" 1947-48............65........54........33..........5...............58............53..........16.............5.............25" 1919-20............67........36..........2..........2...............55............28...........2..............0.............13" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 That 53 straight days of 4" or more in 1947-48 definitely has a wow factor-- next closest is about half that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm1220 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I agree we need one of these upcoming storms to produce at least a little something. Even so, I think if the weather stays cold and dry, well have at least 10 by next Friday. This snow is solid like cement it's not like we're going to have compacting to worry about. Also takes much longer to melt due to the very high water content in the snow. What we have now ain't going anywhere fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 That 53 straight days of 4" or more in 1947-48 definitely has a wow factor-- next closest is about half that. it actually was 51 consecutive days 7" or more on the ground...52 of 6" or more straight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Also takes much longer to melt due to the very high water content in the snow. What we have now ain't going anywhere fast. What's your snowcover now, JM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 it actually was 51 consecutive days 7" or more on the ground...52 of 6" or more straight... What a winter lol-- this winter sounds sort of reminiscent, maybe a bit milder. The Xmas day after storms are certainly comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemwinder Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Uncle, you pointed out somewhere that the big snowstorm of Dec. 26 1947 was followed a week later by a rain event of at least 1" - most of it freezing where I was in Jersey City. I remember the crust on the top of the snowpack, but there was a lot of water underfoot after the event of New Year's. No doubt this locked in that snowpack after all of that froze, helping the snow depth to stabilize? Looks like something similar happened this year, although later in the season. At less depth as well, with a higher sun angle. 47-48 was great, but this winter has its own claim, even without further storms. I'll put up with one more biggie, thanks, and then I'll say "enough" for a while. MAybe some more in March, but I'm ready for Spring after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulen Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The quote of the day from the deadend kids is REMARKABLE simply REMARKABLE thats what this winter gave us if it ended today but luckily NYC has a ways to go with plenty of cold air just next door see ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Uncle, you pointed out somewhere that the big snowstorm of Dec. 26 1947 was followed a week later by a rain event of at least 1" - most of it freezing where I was in Jersey City. I remember the crust on the top of the snowpack, but there was a lot of water underfoot after the event of New Year's. No doubt this locked in that snowpack after all of that froze, helping the snow depth to stabilize? Looks like something similar happened this year, although later in the season. At less depth as well, with a higher sun angle. 47-48 was great, but this winter has its own claim, even without further storms. I'll put up with one more biggie, thanks, and then I'll say "enough" for a while. MAybe some more in March, but I'm ready for Spring after that. How about a nice flower crushing wet snow blizzard in April? I love those Spring has the most boring weather of the year, might as well spice it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemwinder Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 How about a nice flower crushing wet snow blizzard in April? I love those Spring has the most boring weather of the year, might as well spice it up! I'll take it. It wasn't April, but my favorite wet snow was in later March, in 1958. I enjoyed (?) it in South Orange NJ. Started as rain, and snow fell too fast to melt. No flowers to crush, but the nice thing is that the snow didn't hang around too long. One foot of sheer slop. A snowball thrower's manna. Late season snows are interesting to me, because they tolerate more easterly flows, since the ocean is near its coldest, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 I remember walking to school during the March 58 storms...The one on the 21st was 12" of slop that didn't stick around long...The only March snow that stuck around was March 1960, 1967 and 1993...After the super storm on March 13th snow cover lasted a week...That's a long time for snow to last in March...March 1960 lasted around a week or two...1967 had snow on the ground for over a week and past the first day of spring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemwinder Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I remember walking to school during the March 58 storms...The one on the 21st was 12" of slop that didn't stick around long...The only March snow that stuck around was March 1960, 1967 and 1993...After the super storm on March 13th snow cover lasted a week...That's a long time for snow to last in March...March 1960 lasted around a week or two...1967 had snow on the ground for over a week and past the first day of spring... Uncle, your memory is great. The winter of 66-67 saw me working nights (5-1AM) on the then Pennsylvania RR tugboats in NY harbor, attending college in the daytime. It was an interesting winter, with three storms I can remember well, working out on the water. The first was Dec, 66, on Christmas eve. In Jersey City, there was a lot of sleet at times, which kept the snow totals at around 7". Thunder and lightning too. The March 67 storm impressed me, because of its powdery nature, occurring so late in the season. It's interesting to know that the snow lay around that long. March was cold that year. The February storm was of course a real classic. Too lazy to check, but I think that it happened on Mardi Gras. The snow had stopped by early evening, and the night was quite cold and windless. That winter had mild interludes, more than this winter. I just checked, and January was quite mild at times. I wasn't very good at that job, but it gave me some interesting memories. I keep promising myself to buy the KU book(s) and read up on these storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Uncle, your memory is great. The winter of 66-67 saw me working nights (5-1AM) on the then Pennsylvania RR tugboats in NY harbor, attending college in the daytime. It was an interesting winter, with three storms I can remember well, working out on the water. The first was Dec, 66, on Christmas eve. In Jersey City, there was a lot of sleet at times, which kept the snow totals at around 7". Thunder and lightning too. The March 67 storm impressed me, because of its powdery nature, occurring so late in the season. It's interesting to know that the snow lay around that long. March was cold that year. The February storm was of course a real classic. Too lazy to check, but I think that it happened on Mardi Gras. The snow had stopped by early evening, and the night was quite cold and windless. That winter had mild interludes, more than this winter. I just checked, and January was quite mild at times. I wasn't very good at that job, but it gave me some interesting memories. I keep promising myself to buy the KU book(s) and read up on these storms. 1966-67 was an epic late season winter---- Feb-Mar unparalleled combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I remember walking to school during the March 58 storms...The one on the 21st was 12" of slop that didn't stick around long...The only March snow that stuck around was March 1960, 1967 and 1993...After the super storm on March 13th snow cover lasted a week...That's a long time for snow to last in March...March 1960 lasted around a week or two...1967 had snow on the ground for over a week and past the first day of spring... Unc, how long did the snow from April 1982 last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 1966-67 was an epic late season winter---- Feb-Mar unparalleled combo. Dobbs Ferry had recorded 14" of snowfall on January 31, 1967...the town ended up with 70". Just an insane stretch, similar to February 2010 or January 2011.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Dobbs Ferry had recorded 14" of snowfall on January 31, 1967...the town ended up with 70". Just an insane stretch, similar to February 2010 or January 2011.. That 1966 hot summer / snowy winter combo has really worked well. If we went out with a March 1967 kind of pattern I dont think anyone would complain. I see that Westhampton had their latest 0 degree reading ever, on the first day of spring that year, March 21. That must have been in the wake of the big snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 That 1966 hot summer / snowy winter combo has really worked well. If we went out with a March 1967 kind of pattern I dont think anyone would complain. I see that Westhampton had their latest 0 degree reading ever, on the first day of spring that year, March 21. That must have been in the wake of the big snow. March 1967 had an absokutely epic late season cold outbreak. Its the latest below 0F reading on record here....-4F on March 19, 1967...the next closest one is March 10th...so its 9 days later than the next closest one. That's amazing for that late in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 March 1967 had an absokutely epic late season cold outbreak. Its the latest below 0F reading on record here....-4F on March 19, 1967...the next closest one is March 10th...so its 9 days later than the next closest one. That's amazing for that late in the season. Wow, you must've had a ton of snow that month, Will. I wonder how far the snowcover lasted into the Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 March 1967 had an absokutely epic late season cold outbreak. Its the latest below 0F reading on record here....-4F on March 19, 1967...the next closest one is March 10th...so its 9 days later than the next closest one. That's amazing for that late in the season. Do you have any maps for that cold outbreak? Was it an extreme EPO block? I found the answer to my own question, here is the 500mb map, just a sick block over the Bering Strait: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Do you have any maps for that cold outbreak? Was it an extreme EPO block? 0 at FOK and -4 at ORH so late in the season is nothing to sneeze at (well, Im sure some were sneezing back then haha.) I wonder what the norms are that time of year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Do you have any maps for that cold outbreak? Was it an extreme EPO block? I found the answer to my own question, here is the 500mb map, just a sick block over the Bering Strait: I've never looked up a map for that outbreak. But it wouldn't take long to generate one on esrl website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I've never looked up a map for that outbreak. But it wouldn't take long to generate one on esrl website. Looking at 500mb, you wouldn't think there'd be that deep of a trough in the East. We had a nice Bering Strait block/-EPO but it doesn't look as if the NAO/AO were helping. Was there a major snowstorm right before this outbreak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Looking at 500mb, you wouldn't think there'd be that deep of a trough in the East. We had a nice Bering Strait block/-EPO but it doesn't look as if the NAO/AO were helping. Was there a major snowstorm right before this outbreak? Yes there was a big snow event on Mar 15-16th I think. You can't always go by the typical teleconnection index theme that late in the season. The wave lengths have changed quite a bit by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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