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The Mystical Month of February--Long Range Discussion


Ji

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4 minutes ago, SnowDreamer said:

Where can I find this output for FV3? It looks like NCEP MAG, but I don't see FV3 listed there. Thanks!

Here ya go. Anytime ncep has a beta model running it can be found here. Looks just like the main ncep model page but the url has "eval" in it.

https://mageval.ncep.noaa.gov/model-guidance-model-area.php?group=Model Guidance&model=gfs&area=namer&ps=model

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29 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

Can you throw me a rope?  I slipped and fell into the well like Timmy did.  And Lassie is humping the neighbors dog. 

Totally forget ops at long range right now. We're in a transition phase next week with much uncertainty. I'm not sure many even realize that only minor adjustments can easily change the thurs-sat period into a mixed event. We may be dealing with zr thurs/fri even though it looks like easy rain. There's plentiful cold in canada. Even modest confluence north of us can put our area into CAD mode. I'm not expecting anything good or promising until next weekend at the earliest. The best thing to focus on is the upper level progression next week. That holds the key to everything that happens after it. 

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40 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Step away from the ledge. Fv3 agrees with the euro but colder on the 10-11th

gfs_namer_225_850_temp_mslp_precip.gif

Wish we could see how the fv3 handles the mjo. I’ll say this looping the gfs op h5 it finally starts to get right with blocking and the pattern day 15/16. Probably because of it’s 10 day loop through phase 6 again it’s a week behind the euro and fv3 at advancing the trough east.  

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3 hours ago, Bob Chill said:

It is carving eastward d10-15. I'm mostly focused on the d8-12 window. Very active. Someone in the east is going to get a lot of snow in the next 2 weeks. I do feel confident about that. It's the opposite of a dry pattern and it's not a warm pattern either. I think SNE may make a violent comeback here before too long. Our area looks to be fine as well. There's a cluster that stripes NC/SoVA as well. Win, lose, or draw... this thread is going to be very busy over the coming week to 10 days and maybe beyond. 

Yes they will. And Rockville/DCA will be the Epicenter. Better stock up on shovels, ice melter, sand, and stout NOW! Because the infamous Leesburg/Rockville/HoCo-MoCo Deathband will obtain then pivot for days and days on end. You wont even be able to see your neighbors house across the damn street, its gonna snow so bad.

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10 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

Does that include the GEFS in the better category? 

Brother, I think you need an intervention. Do what I did. In December 2009, based on the winter outlook, I purchased my first snow blower and while we had only three worthwhile events, it was enough for me since we had about 70 inches of snow. I purchased my second snow blower this year based on the stratosphere and troposphere and the MJO doing its thing plus the fact I moved and decided that shoveling snow was for losers (JEBMAN not withstanding, and of course he moved to Texas). I have the utmost confidence that we will score three to five more events this winter, starting with an overrunning event within ten days, my personal favorite. The MJO looks good on the EURO. That's all we're going to need (plus a little blocking). The rest of it is just fluff.

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Just now, Wonderdog said:

Brother, I think you need an intervention. Do what I did. In December 2009, based on the winter outlook, I purchased my first snow blower and while we had only three worthwhile events, it was enough for me since we had about 70 inches of snow. I purchased my second snow blower this year based on the stratosphere and troposphere and the MJO doing its thing plus the fact I moved and decided that shoveling snow was for losers (JEBMAN not withstanding, and of course he moved to Texas). I have the utmost confidence that we will score three to five more events this winter, starting with an overrunning event within ten days, my personal favorite. The MJO looks good on the EURO. That's all we're going to need (plus a little blocking). The rest of it is just fluff.

Thanks Wonderdog. I needed that virtual slap.  Maybe I spend too much time at work.  When it does snow I miss it anyway.  Give that snowblower a hug for me.  

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14 minutes ago, Wonderdog said:

Brother, I think you need an intervention. Do what I did. In December 2009, based on the winter outlook, I purchased my first snow blower and while we had only three worthwhile events, it was enough for me since we had about 70 inches of snow. I purchased my second snow blower this year based on the stratosphere and troposphere and the MJO doing its thing plus the fact I moved and decided that shoveling snow was for losers (JEBMAN not withstanding, and of course he moved to Texas). I have the utmost confidence that we will score three to five more events this winter, starting with an overrunning event within ten days, my personal favorite. The MJO looks good on the EURO. That's all we're going to need (plus a little blocking). The rest of it is just fluff.

I felt so confident about our snow chances this winter that I suggested to my dad that he get a snowblower. He is 73 and I didn’t want him having a heart attack from shoveling snow.  He got it the day before our big January storm. He told me he would send me the bill if we don’t get more snow. Lol. 

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4 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

:hurrbear::drunk::mapsnow::snowman:

Happy Hour just got a whole lot happier. We can do this. VERY promising signs appearing in the not-so-LR now. Just a matter of time honestly. 

Comparing 18z to 12z, it doesn't look much different to me (minus noise) on the snowfall mean, which seems to be all many here care to look at lol.

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2 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Comparing 18z to 12z, it doesn't look much different to me (minus noise) on the snowfall mean, which seems to be all many here care to look at lol.

HL blocking setup is moving closer in time as opposed to farther away. That's my takeaway for today. Couldnt care less about a snowfall means tbh.

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3 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Comparing 18z to 12z, it doesn't look much different to me (minus noise) on the snowfall mean, which seems to be all many here care to look at lol.

Funny how it works. When I first started tracking the snowfall maps were the first thing I would look at. Now after all these years it is one of the last things and I quite often forget to look as well. 

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2 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Funny how it works. When I first started tracking the snowfall maps were the first thing I would look at. Now after all these years it is one of the last things and I quite often forget to look as well. 

Normally I wouldn’t but right now there is a disconnect between the h5 and the temperatures due to a cold NAM profile, -epo, and the war finally caving allowing confluence. There have been lots of snowy runs with crappy h5 looks. 

I’m torn on that. Can’t ignore it but it wouldn’t take much adjustment to turn it into a true eastern ridge and cutters. Weaken the NAO and 50/50 just a bit and it goes to hell fast so I get how fragile the setup is. 

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

Normally I wouldn’t but right now there is a disconnect between the h5 and the temperatures due to a cold NAM profile, -epo, and the war finally caving allowing confluence. There have been lots of snowy runs with crappy h5 looks. 

I’m torn on that. Can’t ignore it but it wouldn’t take much adjustment to turn it into a true eastern ridge and cutters. Weaken the NAO and 50/50 just a bit and it goes to hell fast so I get how fragile the setup is. 

Knew the GEFS was having some issues the last few days but didn't realize how badly until I looked a little deeper into just now. A lot of conflicting signals. Until the GEFS starts resolving the conflicts within its members I really can't take anything it throws out seriously whether good or bad.

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@Bob Chill 3 days ago I started closely keeping track of the nao to see if it started to get delayed again. The short answer is it has. But there is a caveat. 3/4 days who the gefs had the better mjo look. Racing through 7 to 8. At that time it also went to great blocking by ~day 14.  As the gefs mjo changed it subsequently lost the good NAO look. It’s not pretty much gone with an ambiguous look there now.  The euro was slower and always had the stall in 7 but now has a better progression after. So does the cfs. Both get good after day 10. So I’m chalking the gefs degradation up to its mjo issues. But this game is getting old fast. If the euro starts to delay or degrade the pattern at all now that it’s entering the magic day 10 window once again I’ll probably be quick to say it’s teasing us again the same as all winter. 

Speaking of all winter, today’s wave got me thinking.  The snowfall has been centered about where we would expect in a modoki nino.  Today’s storm targeted the mid Atlantic.  Most have, temps just haven’t cooperated as often as we needed.  The mjo is degrading the temp pattern but there is a nino ish background there.  Heck if that storm mid December that tracked an upper low under us and dumped 3” of rain had some cold to work with we would be talking about how epic this winter is.  I’m starting to come around to kind of a compromise on where this year is.  The oni did get to .9 on the latest 3 month update.  We got a nino but it’s been muted somewhat by other sst patterns in the pac and the mjo imo.  All that might not matter but maybe if we can just get a few weeks where we time to the precip and some cold there is enough  of the typical modoki nino background within this convoluted pattern that I could see is scoring a big hit or two late.  

 

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@psuhoffman

The AO is negative and looks to remain negative. Copious cold air is getting displaced out of the arctic on both sides of the globe into Russia, Europe, and North America so that definitely counts as a net positive. The bad thing is we look to be fighting the damn pna for at least a week. Lets assume the AO remains negative most or all of Feb (quite possible). Will the pna really be negative all Feb? It might but it's more typical to oscillate. If the NAO never gets right but the AO continues to be negative then we're getting more snow this month.

Not discounting the importance of the nao. If we're going to get a big classic coastal we're going to need the real atlantic blocking. At least we have the AO in our favor. That should pay some dividends as long as it remains favorable. 

Good points about snow (and rain) patterns. No doubt that there's been plenty of juice to work with and it actually looks to increase this month. I've heard references to this winter being more like a Nina. Speaking from our area only, I disagree. But out west it hasn't been nino like. Only recently did the Sierras get blasted. The pac nw and northern rockies have had a solid year so far. This year is kinda some sort of enso hybrid depending on what area you're focusing on. 

There's a lot of uncertainty and mixed signals over the coming 1-2 weeks. I'm not sold either way with the nao but I do strongly believe we're getting more snow this month no matter what the NAO does. That's a far better feeling than things looking hopeless and hostile.

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