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The Mystical Month of February--Long Range Discussion


Ji

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17 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Nice GFS op run, first a wave for the northern 1/2 and then a wave for the southern 1/2 of the forum.  Everyone gets some love through day 11.  

 I was laughing to myself when I watched JB's video today about the MJO and the SSWE . Seems he did an  Isotherm moment there.   

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21 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Nice GFS op run, first a wave for the northern 1/2 and then a wave for the southern 1/2 of the forum.  Everyone gets some love through day 11.  

You can see the GFS though is now showing crazy SE ridging on the last 3 Op runs and many ensembles from 2/8-2/12 while the Euro has started abandoning the idea.  It’s likely a result of the GFS incorrect MJO evolution 

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6 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

You can see the GFS though is now showing crazy SE ridging on the last 3 Op runs and many ensembles from 2/8-2/12 while the Euro has started abandoning the idea.  It’s likely a result of the GFS incorrect MJO evolution 

it is a risk

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13 minutes ago, frd said:

 I was laughing to myself when I watched JB's video today about the MJO and the SSWE . Seems he did an  Isotherm moment there.   

Haven't seen it yet, might listen on my way home in a bit.  JB sometimes throws out a useful nugget, but you have to be able to know when he is in spin mode and full of bleep and what to toss.  

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14 minutes ago, frd said:

1993  -   this will be the 3 rd time he used it so far this winter.  ( along with many others ) 

LOL... he uses March 93 EVERY time there is any kind of full latitude trough in the east when only 1/10000000 of those will ever turn into some kind of monster storm.  It takes way more than just some deep trough to get that result.  

I have been looking at February 1993 though as an example of a -EPO pattern that was fairly snowly here...VERY snowy up my way, and at least somewhat snowy in the urban area.  But it did it with an EPO ridge that was further east and a displaced PV in eastern Canada.  But again, if you can get a mechanism to suppress the storms as they come east a -PNA pattern can lead to a parade of storms into cold air.   But you have to have some way to prevent cutters.  

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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

That isn't a positive NAO.  It looks neutral to maybe slightly negative there.  But it's definitely NOT the NAO block we need either.  

meh...i hope the GEFS is a disaster beceause its mishandling of MJO or maybe we are heading towards a more  -EPO pattern for 2nd half of Feb

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

That isn't a positive NAO.  It looks neutral to maybe slightly negative there.  But it's definitely NOT the NAO block we need either.  

Using that panel is a good way to show how vital it is to our sensible weather.

 

 

gfs-ens_z500a_namer_fh288_trend.gif

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Just now, LP08 said:

Using that panel is a good way to show how vital it is to our sensible weather.

 

 

gfs-ens_z500a_namer_fh288_trend.gif

yep...and you can do that with EVERY run the last week and the NAO...there is a direct correlation.  More blocking, trough into the east...less blocking, trough dumps into the west and eastern ridge.  

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Just now, leesburg 04 said:

GFS seems kinda bouncy from a readers POV

It is... I am not making a forecast just stating that this GEFS run was complete garbage.  The GEFS has a severe problem with jumping around for an ensemble run to run.  I tend to try to take a 24 hour cycle of the GEFS and use it as one ensemble.  We have had 2 pretty good GEFS runs, 1 mediocre, and 1 awful in the last 4.  

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

It is... I am not making a forecast just stating that this GEFS run was complete garbage.  The GEFS has a severe problem with jumping around for an ensemble run to run.  I tend to try to take a 24 hour cycle of the GEFS and use it as one ensemble.  We have had 2 pretty good GEFS runs, 1 mediocre, and 1 awful in the last 4.  

For sure...basically just reading the analysis of each run the reader can tell the inconsistencies. I personally don't think right now the real pattern has shown its hand yet and may never on the ensembles...something is definitely kinking up the long range looks

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It's just one run of the GEFS...waiting for the whole 12z suite, including GEPS and EPS to come in before I make any kind of judgement but I have not yet seen the kind of increase in the NAO anomalies that I want to indicate that confidence is growing in that feature.  And we know that is the key feature so that is everything here.  And finally... as leads shorten confidence SHOULD be growing.  If the anomaly stays the same as leads shorten that is actually a bad sign.  Of course the EPS could come out soon with some uber blocking look and the GEPS could concur and then we toss the GEFS.  Just saying if the guidance in general keeps only having a pretty weak -NAO signal with lots of divergence as we get closer that is a red flag imo.  There have been some runs that speed up the NAO and then lose it right away.  In general it has continued to fail to break into the day 10 period.  

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15 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

It can't be that trustworthy if it's jumping around like this, right?

Day 10+ is always going to jump around because it's beyond the range of good skill AND the longwave pattern is going through a pretty significant change. Differences in timing and evolution have quite a bit of spread. The bottom line is we really don't have a clear picture in any way shape or form about what things are going to look like in 10 days. It's different when we're already in a stable pattern and models show it continuing. We're facing the opposite of that. 

I'm not going to comment much on the long range right now. By the time you think you have a handle on it everything changes. Waste of keystrokes. 

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1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

Nice GFS op run, first a wave for the northern 1/2 and then a wave for the southern 1/2 of the forum.  Everyone gets some love through day 11.  

Seeing a lot of mixed events on the GEFS after the mini torch. Can't drill down that far with the EPS beyond d10 but I'm sure there are plenty there too. If we do get 1-2 mixed events your climo could easily work in your favor compared to cities/burbs. 

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Just now, Bob Chill said:

Seeing a lot of mixed events on the GEFS after the mini torch. Can't drill down that far with the EPS beyond d10 but I'm sure there are plenty there too. If we do get 1-2 mixed events your climo could easily work in your favor compared to cities/burbs. 

If we get a pattern with waves riding along the boundary with the SE ridge my area would likely win compared to DC.  That has lead to some pretty big snowfall periods up here.  But it can also fail here too if the SE ridge flexes too much and we end up with a cutter pattern.  

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

If we get a pattern with waves riding along the boundary with the SE ridge my area would likely win compared to DC.  That has lead to some pretty big snowfall periods up here.  But it can also fail here too if the SE ridge flexes too much and we end up with a cutter pattern.  

Yea, the upcoming "transition" is impossible to predict at this point. Not like we have seen much skill beyond 10 days this year but it looks more like a mud bog instead of the usual "muddy" picture. Once some sort of clarity emerges I'll dig deeper. Right now the run over run changes we're seeing across the board are basically telling us to not even try to guess at timing/outcomes etc. 

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