Memory Lane

[LibertyBell]

On 12/4/2019 at 5:06 AM, SnowGoose69 said:

At the time it was the first case ever of a major storm being modeled that far in advance.  Once we got to 96-120 every model had it including the UKMET.  Forecasting was still pretty bad in 1993.  It improved significantly in the ensuing 3-5 years as a result of the Euro being more widely used as well as the ETA being worlds better than the LFM/NGM.  

March 1993 was earth's equivalent of the Great Red Spot, except it was the Great White Spot :-P  It would be fun if Earth ever got a perpetual storm that never dissipates like that!

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, coastalplainsnowman said:

93-94 was awesome for many reasons.  First, the cold and the snowpack.  Snowcover seemed to last forever that year.   As you said, there was a winter event or two every week.  One week in February we were in the middle of an 8 inch storm on a Tuesday while the radio was talking about another one coming that Friday.  Fresh snowpack on top of frozen old snowpack.  Cold as far as the eye could see on the long range forecasts on TV.  Colleges on LI that hadn't cancelled a day in 18 years cancelling school.  And this wasn't in the middle of a run of snowy winters.  The big storm of any consequence was 11 years prior (Blizzard of 93 was a changeover event for most of us on LI), and during a time where I believe only one or two 10" storms had occurred in the previous decade.  To me not 95/96 with its crazy snow totals on LI and snowfalls into April, nor any of the winters with seemingly annual record breaking blizzards top 93/94, which felt arctic for months on end.

for snow pack 10-11 eventually topped 93-94.  If the winter had continued beyond the end of January it would have topped 95-96 too.

I would have loved a combo of 10-11 and 14-15 what a winter that would have been!  Combine the December and January of 2010 with the February and March of 2015 lol.

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:42 PM, uncle W said:

1993-94 had over 300 hours with frozen precipitation falling...1919-20 almost as much...1995-96 had just under 300 hours with some kind of frozen precip...I have to check other years like 1947-48 to see which year had the most...

also please check 2002-03 and 2010-11 and 2014-15

 

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/4/2019 at 2:23 PM, uncle W said:

we would be basking in 60 degree heat on this date not knowing a major blizzard was a week away...the first half of January 1961 was benign...Sunday the 15th was 50 degrees early in the day...light rain started in the morning and temperatures dropped during the day...the rain changed to sleet in the early afternoon and mixed with snow in the evening...it snowed until eight the next morning...2-3" across the area accumulated...it was in the 40's for two days before an arctic front passed and stalled to our south...a major blizzard with a foot of snow in Brooklyn started just after noon on the 19th...it ended just after noon on the 20th...temps were in the teens with high winds...the temperature did not get above 29 for 16 consecutive days in a row... snow cover melted very slowly and there were two days in a row of clipper snow and another coastal that dropped 4" the next week...the end of January had 9" of snow on the ground...February comes in with near record cold...-2 on the second...there were rumors of storms that week and it was supposed to be on Thursday...it came on Friday the 3rd and ended on the 4th...there was accumulating snow from 6pm to 5pm on the 4th...the temp rose to 34 just after the snow ended stopping the record 16 straight days from 17 straight days with a max freezing or lower...there was 28" on the ground in Brooklyn after 21" fell as snow and sleet...after that storm winter was on its way out with a big thaw and storms after that were to warm for snow on the coast...

Feb 1961 was one of the greatest storms of all time, 25" of snow even though rain and sleet mixed in.

Central Park undermeasured back then, and JFK kept better numbers.

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:08 PM, Gravity Wave said:

Reading these posts reminds me of how many of the big NYC snowstorms of the past 20 years were non-events or underwhelming in Allentown where I grew up. 

December 2003: I remember watching the weather channel nonstop leading up to this storm, which ended up busting somewhat for NYC but which only dropped 6" in Allentown. We even changed over to sleet for a while, which wasn't forecasted. http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/weather/2004/05-Dec-03.html

February 2006: For whatever reason I have zero memory of this storm. I had never heard of it prior to joining this board. The snowmaps for this storm are inconsistent but it appears that Allentown was just north of the best banding and ended up with 8-10". http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/weather/2006/12-Feb-06.html

December 2009: This storm was a much bigger deal in the Mid Atlantic but still ended up being nice for the City (and a big storm on LI). I'll always remember the cutoff in this storm: 20+ inches in Philly and 4 in Allentown. I still have painful memories of watching the heavy snow bands erode as they moved north of the PA turnpike. http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/weather/2010/19-Dec-09.html

February 2010 ("Snowicane"): Another storm where neither NYC or Allentown were near the jackpot zone (Upstate NY) but where NYC did far better, with over 20 inches (which is more than I thought). I ended up with 8 or so as the coastal low developed a little too late. http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/weather/2010/25-Feb-10.html

Boxing Day: This one was truly painful. Allentown was under a WSW for 12-16" after a late jump west on the models. The western cutoff was always going to be sharp but it looked like far eastern PA was going to be on the right side of it. Then the low bombed out more than expected which tightened the precip shield, and everyone west of NENJ got shafted. I ended up with 2" of pixie dust. http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/weather/2011/26-Dec-10.html

1993-94 though is the all time snowiest winter at Allentown.

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:20 AM, cleetussnow said:

My first encounter with thundersnow - I thought for sure it would be my last and only experience with it. It was in upstate NY, I think around New Years in 2003(?).  There was a 2 part storm with rain and ice in round one, and then a 15 inch snowfall when the storm hit the coast, so I am thinking it was a Miller B.  I chalked up the thunder and lightening to the rainstorm lifting out and figured its a once in a lifetime deal.  

Since then, I probably experienced it 3 times, 2006 and 2016 certainly, and one time out snowmobiling in the adirondaks in the middle of the night, probably in 2007.  That was WEIRD.  My son and I were trying to get back in town before this particular storm got too ugly, but as we came out of the higher terrain the snow turned to rain and sleet and the skies were lighting up.  He was 10 and freaking out for all the right reasons - Dark, cold, scary weather and alone!  We made it.  

I don't recall thundersnow in 93 or 96 but there must have been, and I could have chalked it up to any number of other things, like a plow truck or a transforming blowing somewhere.    

my first encounter with thundersnow that I remember was Feb 1994, it happened during the day and the snowfall rates were crazy and I actually saw the bolts of lightning and heard the thunder!

 

[LibertyBell]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:47 PM, uncle W said:

the storm was predicted to be one of the biggest storms ever a few days out...noaa said so on their weather radio back then...

I think he meant that Dec 2010 (Boxing Day Blizzard) was the one that snuck up on us.

 

[rclab]

5 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Feb 1961 was one of the greatest storms of all time, 25" of snow even though rain and sleet mixed in.

Central Park undermeasured back then, and JFK kept better numbers.

 

I was a freshman in Brooklyn Tech. School cancelled and Mayor Wagner banning cars from the city during the cleanup. As for CPK the measurement teams traditions remain. As always .......

[Brasiluvsnow]

On 12/4/2019 at 8:13 PM, doncat said:

Alan Kasper is an idol to a lot of us older folks...I learned  a lot growing up listening  to him.

I used to love watching and listening to Alan Kasper on ch2, he was a really good weather man and a snow weenie as he would outwardly hope for snow while doing his forecast. 

[FPizz]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 8:47 PM, uncle W said:

the night of the January 19th 1978 storm Kasper was hedging towards a bigger storm saying the rain snow line has moved south...He said NYC could get 8"...I rember Alan Kasper making appearance's on the Uncle Floyd show in the late 70's...They called him Alan Kaster oil...

 

Interesting, I was born almost exactly 9 months after this storm...hmmmm 

I think people kind of forget about the 2006 storm is because it melted in like 2 days if I remember correctly. 

93-94 is my second fav winter.  Wish though I could have enjoyed it more as a 9th grader though.  My father was sick from cancer, and passed on March 31, 1994.  I remember one storm, it being 17 degrees and it pouring freezing rain.  My brother and I were so ticked off.  All the ice and snow though lead to near constant snow cover it seemed.

[LibertyBell]

16 minutes ago, Brasiluvsnow said:

I used to love watching and listening to Alan Kasper on ch2, he was a really good weather man and a snow weenie as he would outwardly hope for snow while doing his forecast. 

Just imagine it, back in those days we were begging for scraps because the weather only came on for a few minutes every day.  I used to wait for AM Weather on PBS, 15 min every morning!  And Joe Cioffi on WOR radio!  Could you imagine if we didn't have the internet during this snowy era? It's good that it waited until now.  Even 93-94 and 95-96 could have been a lot better if we had discussion boards like these back then!

I got weather radio just in time for the 95-96 winter :-)

 

 

[Brasiluvsnow]

1 minute ago, LibertyBell said:

Just imagine it, back in those days we were begging for scraps because the weather only came on for a few minutes every day.  Could you imagine if we didn't have the internet during this snowy era? It's good that it waited until now.  Even 93-94 and 95-96 could have been a lot better if we had discussion boards like these back then!

 

Yes Liberty exactly,,,,,I remember back then my dad brought home one of those hand held weather radios all you got on it was a recorded weather announcement for a few areas and I would listen to that for hours as a kid. They would update the recorded message every so often back then it was state of the art now its comical

[LibertyBell]

6 minutes ago, Brasiluvsnow said:

Yes Liberty exactly,,,,,I remember back then my dad brought home one of those hand held weather radios all you got on it was a recorded weather announcement for a few areas and I would listen to that for hours as a kid. They would update the recorded message every so often back then it was state of the art now its comical

I didn't even have an accurate thermometer until I got my first digital one from Radio Shack back in 1995.  It was far more accurate than any of the liquid ones.  All those "scientific" ones with the red liquid (alcohol!) were not accurate.  I used to think they used mercury but they didn't.  And they were extremely slow in responding to radiational cooling or any rapid temp drop.  And those aneroid barometers dont work either- what a rip off!  I didn't have any accurate weather equipment until I went all digital, which wasn't until 2005.

 

 

 

[Brasiluvsnow]

Just now, LibertyBell said:

I didn't even have an accurate thermometer until I got my first digital one from Radio Shack back in 1995.  All those "scientific" ones with the red liquid (alcohol!) were not accurate.  I used to think they used mercury but they didn't.  And they were extremely slow in responding to radiational cooling or any rapid temp drop.  And those aneroid barometers dont work either- what a rip off!

 

Liberty you are going too fast for me as I am still very much a novice , what the hell is a Aneroid Barometer lol ?

[LibertyBell]

1 minute ago, Brasiluvsnow said:

Liberty you are going too fast for me as I am still very much a novice , what the hell is a Aneroid Barometer lol ?

the barometer with a pointer and dial, sort of like the things you measured blood pressure with before the digital stuff came out lol.  It responded far too slowly to air pressure changes and I ended up breaking it because I put it outside when that wasn't even necessary lol.  My digital barometer measures outside air pressure just fine from inside my bedroom!

 

[uncle W]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

also please check 2002-03 and 2010-11 and 2014-15

 

 

1947-48 had around 330 hours...1993-94 with 310...1919-20 with 305...1995-96 with 295...1960-61 with 237...the local climate data stopped showing what precip. was falling every hour in 1965...after 1965 you have to estimate sometimes...

[LibertyBell]

3 minutes ago, uncle W said:

1947-48 had around 330 hours...1993-94 with 310...1919-20 with 305...1995-96 with 295...1960-61 with 237...the local climate data stopped showing what precip. was falling every hour in 1965...after 1965 you have to estimate sometimes...

oh that reminds me, what about 1966-67?

 

[SnowGoose69]

1 hour ago, Torch said:

No I meant” 78” , Friday 6 P.M 48 hours before the first flakes flew, the weather bureau had a forecast of light snow. Of course 24 hours later things changed, but back then it could have been seen as a surprise.

78 was forecast remarkably well for the time though the amounts weren’t.  The LFM was the model which nailed it as it also did the 89 Thanksgiving storm which the other models mostly discounted.  78 was quickly setback though when the models blew the 1983 storm north of Philly.  In fairness there wasn’t much computer advancement in those 5 years though.  1983 was somewhat of a benchmark though in that when the 00Z models ran that evening they shifted the entire storm well north and caught onto what was going on.  At the time that was one of the first cases of the models ever doing that 

[LibertyBell]

34 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

78 was forecast remarkably well for the time though the amounts weren’t.  The LFM was the model which nailed it as it also did the 89 Thanksgiving storm which the other models mostly discounted.  78 was quickly setback though when the models blew the 1983 storm north of Philly.  In fairness there wasn’t much computer advancement in those 5 years though.  1983 was somewhat of a benchmark though in that when the 00Z models ran that evening they shifted the entire storm well north and caught onto what was going on.  At the time that was one of the first cases of the models ever doing that 

Feb 1983 was the prototype for Jan 1996, PD2 and Jan 2016.  The odd storm out was Jan 1996, which happened in an la nina, the others were all el nino.

 

[NorthShoreWx]

Nala Repsak ... I literally remember him saying his name backwards on the air.  No idea what the forecast was that day, but I remember the name

My guess is he'd get a chuckle out of anyone remembering that.

[doncat]

2 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

I didn't even have an accurate thermometer until I got my first digital one from Radio Shack back in 1995.  It was far more accurate than any of the liquid ones.  All those "scientific" ones with the red liquid (alcohol!) were not accurate.  I used to think they used mercury but they didn't.  And they were extremely slow in responding to radiational cooling or any rapid temp drop.  And those aneroid barometers dont work either- what a rip off!  I didn't have any accurate weather equipment until I went all digital, which wasn't until 2005.

 

 

 

My first weather equipment  and first written observations started at around 10 years of age, maybe earlier. I'm now close to 60.

[LibertyBell]

2 minutes ago, doncat said:

My first weather equipment  and first written observations started at around 10 years of age, maybe earlier. I'm now close to 60.

where did you get accurate analog stuff? none of mine seemed to work right until I went all digital.

 

[NorthShoreWx]

2 hours ago, Torch said:

Speaking of “78”, for you Long Islanders, Joe Cioffi the well respected Met of Cablevision, also Ch.11 N.Y.,

was working for weather radio , and it was his voice that you heard at the updated afternoon broadcast giving us a forecast of at the time 14 or more inches. Not sure if the weather bureau up to that date ever predicted amounts that high before the actual event.

I remember the media forecasts (880, 1010) saying "a foot or more" as early as Saturday 2/4/78.  I had about 1 snow day before that winter (2/2/76) and we had full school days during all day snowstorms in 2/74 and 2/75 (both were around 9").  It wasn't a district that liked to close and people weren't as touchy feely about driving in snow as they are now (rear wheel drive and all).  But they closed school Monday 2/6 in anticipation of the storm.  Big time forecast that was actually taken seriously.  Then the storm exceeded the high expectations.   This after a colossal forecast bust 2 1/2 weeks before when expected overnight rain was actually a 17" blizzard.  Good times that winter.  72" season total in NE Nassau County.  A friend lived in a split level across the street from the old Sod farms near the high school (now Stillwell Woods) and the drift there was up to the roofline on the tall side of the house.

We didn't go back to school until 2/13 (then had regular classes as another 5" fell on Valentines Day).  The NSP was closed for days and I saw these giant snow throwers that they brought down from somewhere upstate clearing drifts on the parkway. 

Here is a photo from one of the industrial parks in Syosset in February 1978:

 

[doncat]

16 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

where did you get accurate analog stuff? none of mine seemed to work right until I went all digital.

 

Wow the early stuff...Had the aneroid barometer...not too good as you mentioned, remember always tapping it? Had a mercury min/max thermo..it had these little markers inside the glass that would stay at the highest and lowest readings..push a button to reset. It had a 6 ft cable which you put out the window. I've had a lot of equipment...Much of it I still have sitting in the basement...looks like a weather museum. First digital  unit was a heathkit  thermometer...remember those?

[LibertyBell]

4 minutes ago, doncat said:

Wow the early stuff...Had the aneroid barometer...not too good as you mentioned, remember always tapping it? Had a mercury min/max thermo..it had these little markers inside the glass that would stay at the highest and lowest readings..push a button to reset. It had a 6 ft cable which you put out the window. I've had a lot of equipment...Much of it I still have sitting in the basement...looks like a weather museum. First digital  unit was a heathkit  thermometer...remember those?

I think so!  I remember seeing it in a scientific equipment catalog years ago.

[LibertyBell]

8 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

I remember the media forecasts (880, 1010) saying "a foot or more" as early as Saturday 2/4/78.  I had about 1 snow day before that winter (2/2/76) and we had full school days during all day snowstorms in 2/74 and 2/75 (both were around 9").  It wasn't a district that liked to close and people weren't as touchy feely about driving in snow as they are now (rear wheel drive and all).  But they closed school Monday 2/6 in anticipation of the storm.  Big time forecast that was actually taken seriously.  Then the storm exceeded the high expectations.   This after a colossal forecast bust 2 1/2 weeks before when expected overnight rain was actually a 17" blizzard.  Good times that winter.  72" season total in NE Nassau County.  A friend lived in a split level across the street from the old Sod farms near the high school (now Stillwell Woods) and the drift there was up to the roofline on the tall side of the house.

We didn't go back to school until 2/13 (then had regular classes as another 5" fell on Valentines Day).  The NSP was closed for days and I saw these giant snow throwers that they brought down from somewhere upstate clearing drifts on the parkway. 

Here is a photo from one of the industrial parks in Syosset in February 1978:

 

Wow, some things dont change, remember when the LIE was closed for miles after the February blizzard in 2013?

Would you say the impact of Feb 1978 was similar to that?

 

[NorthShoreWx]

19 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Wow, some things dont change, remember when the LIE was closed for miles after the February blizzard in 2013?

Would you say the impact of Feb 1978 was similar to that?

 

In spots yes.  2/78 was more widespread and a lot windier.  I was near the epicenter in 2/13 and we had nearly 4" LE in the snow and sleet that fell (some high profile roof collapses in my town from that).  78 had less water, but gigantic drifts.  Roof problems in 78 were more isolated because most of the snow blew off of roofs.

Closest thing I have seen to the 78 wind was December 2010 but 78 had higher winds and the winds and snow lasted a lot longer too.  Actually, 2010 was somewhat of a dud here (barely made 12" imby), but the winds made it worthwhile.

 

Edit: Anticipating that someone will ask, we had a couple of hours of rain or rain/mix midday on 2/8/13, but it only totaled about a tenth of an inch of liquid.  The precip started as snow in the morning, flipped to some light rain and drizzle for a short time, then the snow went bonkers after about 3pm.  We did have a period of mix with sleet in the evening, but mostly heavy wet snow transitioning to a drier powdery snow after about 10 pm or so.  I'll have to check, but I think I had 3.87"LE for the storm and almost all of it was frozen.  I've never seen that much from one storm, even in '78.  I suspect that something similar may have happened in February 1961, but not certain.

 

'78 was windblown powder from curtain to curtain.  We stayed on the cold side of the coastal front that got parts of the island up near freezing.  When that was happening, we were positively ripping overnight with temps in the low - mid 20s.

[LibertyBell]

34 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

In spots yes.  2/78 was more widespread and a lot windier.  I was near the epicenter in 2/13 and we had nearly 4" LE in the snow and sleet that fell (some high profile roof collapses in my town from that).  78 had less water, but gigantic drifts.  Roof problems in 78 were more isolated because most of the snow blew off of roofs.

Closest thing I have seen to the 78 wind was December 2010 but 78 had higher winds and the winds and snow lasted a lot longer too.  Actually, 2010 was somewhat of a dud here (barely made 12" imby), but the winds made it worthwhile.

 

Edit: Anticipating that someone will ask, we had a couple of hours of rain or rain/mix midday on 2/8/13, but it only totaled about a tenth of an inch of liquid.  The precip started as snow in the morning, flipped to some light rain and drizzle for a short time, then the snow went bonkers after about 3pm.  We did have a period of mix with sleet in the evening, but mostly heavy wet snow transitioning to a drier powdery snow after about 10 pm or so.  I'll have to check, but I think I had 3.87"LE for the storm and almost all of it was frozen.  I've never seen that much from one storm, even in '78.  I suspect that something similar may have happened in February 1961, but not certain.

 

'78 was windblown powder from curtain to curtain.  We stayed on the cold side of the coastal front that got parts of the island up near freezing.  When that was happening, we were positively ripping overnight with temps in the low - mid 20s.

Yes!  I like to put the 3" LE all frozen storms in a category of their own.  The only one I had like that which was all snow was Jan 2016.  Looks like you had even more with Feb 2013.  The highest snowfall totals I read about were around 40"!

Feb 1961 and perhaps the snowicane in Feb 2010 belong in that list too.  Two ancient storms that probably also belong on that list are the blizzard of Mar 1888 and Feb 1920.

 

[uncle W]

all the winter storms with at least 2.00" of LE for NYC...

4.43"...17.5"...02/04-07/1920...mid 20's to low 30's...snow/ice/sleet for over 72 hours...

3.17"...20.9"...02/25-26/2010...mid 30's to upper 20's...wet snow some mix...

3.11"...14.5"...03/01-02/1914...upper 30's to upper teens...started as rain/sleet/ice...

2.68"...12.5"...02/20/1921........mid 30's to low 20's...started as rain/sleet/ice...

2.62"...17.4"...02/03-04/1961...upper 20's to low 30's...changed to sleet/rain for a time...

2.52"...10.6"...03/13-14/1993...low 30's to upper 30's...changed to sleet and rain...

2.40"...26.4"...12/26-27/1947...mid 20's to low 30's...all snow

2.32"...27.5"...01/22-23/2016...mid 20's...all snow

2.22"...10.4"...02/03-04/1926...mid 20's to 30...mixed with sleet and ice...

2.16"...20.2"...01/07-08/1996...low teens to low 20's...all snow...

2.10"...21.0"...03/12-14/1888...upper 30's to single digits...started as rain/sleet...

2.08"...18.1"...03/07-08/1941...low 20's to low 30's...wet snow ending as a mix...

2.08"...12.5"...02/13-14/2014...mid 20's to mid 30's to mid 20's...changed to rain for 12 hours...

2.06"...19.0"...01/26-27/2011...low 30's to mid 30's to upper 20's...changed to rain for a time...

[LibertyBell]

56 minutes ago, uncle W said:

all the winter storms with at least 2.00" of LE for NYC...

4.43"...17.5"...02/04-07/1920...mid 20's to low 30's...snow/ice/sleet for over 72 hours...

3.17"...20.9"...02/25-26/2010...mid 30's to upper 20's...wet snow some mix...

3.11"...14.5"...03/01-02/1914...upper 30's to upper teens...started as rain/sleet/ice...

2.68"...12.5"...02/20/1921........mid 30's to low 20's...started as rain/sleet/ice...

2.62"...17.4"...02/03-04/1961...upper 20's to low 30's...changed to sleet/rain for a time...

2.52"...10.6"...03/13-14/1993...low 30's to upper 30's...changed to sleet and rain...

2.40"...26.4"...12/26-27/1947...mid 20's to low 30's...all snow

2.32"...27.5"...01/22-23/2016...mid 20's...all snow

2.22"...10.4"...02/03-04/1926...mid 20's to 30...mixed with sleet and ice...

2.16"...20.2"...01/07-08/1996...low teens to low 20's...all snow...

2.10"...21.0"...03/12-14/1888...upper 30's to single digits...started as rain/sleet...

2.08"...18.1"...03/07-08/1941...low 20's to low 30's...wet snow ending as a mix...

2.08"...12.5"...02/13-14/2014...mid 20's to mid 30's to mid 20's...changed to rain for 12 hours...

2.06"...19.0"...01/26-27/2011...low 30's to mid 30's to upper 20's...changed to rain for a time...

I always forget that March 1914 storm, wasn't that a triple phaser?

And of course, Dec 1947 belongs on this list.

Wow we had another big LE wintry storm almost exactly a year after Feb 1920.