January Banter 2019

[CAPE]

1 minute ago, nw baltimore wx said:

I agree with Mattie's yeast list (and recipe, though I like some oats in there too) and I also use the Wyeast 1318 regularly.  I've also used the San Diego Super yeast that Scraff mentioned and holy $&*#, it's called super for a reason.  Does he need to get a list of equipment to the professor tomorrow too?  I don't know if you mentioned it, but is planning on doing one 5 gallon batch and separating it into 6 fermenting vessels? 

I'm not sure that it's helpful, but White Labs in Asheville, NC, does this exact experiment.  They have several of the same beers in their tap room that all came from the same batch but fermented with different yeasts.  Super cool to be able to sample the differences.

Yes this what I understand to be the case.

This is the rig they have in the lab-

https://www.grainfather.com/grainfather-connect.html?___store=us

As an automation geek I love seeing PID control! I teach that stuff.

I found a few Home Brew stores near where he is in the UK. I think probably calling or going there and explaining exactly what he is doing is the best way to go. I am guessing its important to not pick yeasts that are too similar, otherwise it may be difficult to perceive any differences in aroma/flavor/mouth feel, etc.

[psuhoffman]

9 minutes ago, Fozz said:

I'll take it... easily. I don't get all the fuss especially from the northerners.

Problem is you dont get to "take it".  Last 3 runs went from 6" to 5" to 3" for MBY...  I tend to project not just take what the guidance says exactly as is and the guidance has been moving towards a less amplified wave the last several days.  If that continues that 3" becomes what...2", 1"?  It's not just this run but the direction all this is heading I am not thrilled with.  Besides that my bar is always 4".  I dont know why. That is just kind of the over under for what makes me happy in any given event.  Maybe that is silly.  Maybe that is stupid.  But it is my feelings and I can't change them.  I don't have any problem with others being totally happy with 1-2" but honestly those only make me happy if I already have snowcover on the ground and then mood snow or a refresher is nice and I love it...but if my ground is bare 1-2" really doesn't do much for me.  Feel free to tell me how silly and crazy that is.  Maybe it is, probably is, I'll admit that.  But one of the reasons I moved up here is because we tend to get a LOT of 4" plus snowfalls in a typical winter up here.  This year not so much.  

9 minutes ago, mappy said:

for all the complaining you have done about missing out on snow, you'd think you'd be happy with what you end up getting. but what do i know.

this place has turned into a super duper negative place to be right now. and frankly, its not fun. good luck with your 1-2", hopefully you get more. 

See above.  The negativity towards our snow chances is kind of warranted right now.  We have 2 relatively minor threats in front of us...then are staring a torch in the face that is becoming less and less avoidable every day, and is likely to eat up a big chunk of our prime climo that ALL guidance was showing a great pattern for just a week ago.  

I am not cancelling winter.  I have no idea what will happen.  The last few weeks have shown that.  And maybe it all flips back tomorrow.  And maybe we get a HECS in late February.  Or maybe this goes down as an epic fail up here.  I dont know.  But at this moment, things look pretty bad and so are people supposed to pretend it looks good?   It's annoying when things look ok or good and people crap all over it.  When it really does look like a dumpster fire...might as well roll with it.  But I guess some are trying to make lemonade and all and I don't want to piss in the punch bowl so I will shut up for a while.  

[mappy]

1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

 See above.  The negativity towards our snow chances is kind of warranted right now.  We have 2 relatively minor threats in front of us...then are staring a torch in the face that is becoming less and less avoidable every day, and is likely to eat up a big chunk of our prime climo that ALL guidance was showing a great pattern for just a week ago.  

I am not cancelling winter.  I have no idea what will happen.  The last few weeks have shown that.  And maybe it all flips back tomorrow.  And maybe we get a HECS in late February.  Or maybe this goes down as an epic fail up here.  I dont know.  But at this moment, things look pretty bad and so are people supposed to pretend it looks good?   It's annoying when things look ok or good and people crap all over it.  When it really does look like a dumpster fire...might as well roll with it.  But I guess some are trying to make lemonade and all and I don't want to piss in the punch bowl so I will shut up for a while.  

nah you do you, dude. you're much more valued around these parts. I'm out for the foreseeable future. Randy can get someone else to moderate this place. Maybe by summer all the whiners and snow weenies will disappear and I can post about storms and shit. The majority of you are ruining even just tracking the weather for everyone else. So congrats. Enjoy and good luck. Later. 

[DanTheMan]

I think a week long server crash would do this forum some good 

[Fozz]

7 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Problem is you dont get to "take it".  Last 3 runs went from 6" to 5" to 3" for MBY...  I tend to project not just take what the guidance says exactly as is and the guidance has been moving towards a less amplified wave the last several days.  If that continues that 3" becomes what...2", 1"?  It's not just this run but the direction all this is heading I am not thrilled with.  Besides that my bar is always 4".  I dont know why. That is just kind of the over under for what makes me happy in any given event.  Maybe that is silly.  Maybe that is stupid.  But it is my feelings and I can't change them.  I don't have any problem with others being totally happy with 1-2" but honestly those only make me happy if I already have snowcover on the ground and then mood snow or a refresher is nice and I love it...but if my ground is bare 1-2" really doesn't do much for me.  Feel free to tell me how silly and crazy that is.  Maybe it is, probably is, I'll admit that.  But one of the reasons I moved up here is because we tend to get a LOT of 4" plus snowfalls in a typical winter up here.  This year not so much.  

See above.  The negativity towards our snow chances is kind of warranted right now.  We have 2 relatively minor threats in front of us...then are staring a torch in the face that is becoming less and less avoidable every day, and is likely to eat up a big chunk of our prime climo that ALL guidance was showing a great pattern for just a week ago.  

I am not cancelling winter.  I have no idea what will happen.  The last few weeks have shown that.  And maybe it all flips back tomorrow.  And maybe we get a HECS in late February.  Or maybe this goes down as an epic fail up here.  I dont know.  But at this moment, things look pretty bad and so are people supposed to pretend it looks good?   It's annoying when things look ok or good and people crap all over it.  When it really does look like a dumpster fire...might as well roll with it.  But I guess some are trying to make lemonade and all and I don't want to piss in the punch bowl so I will shut up for a while.  

Those 4-6" runs always looked high to me... and for a mere frontal passage I was always skeptical of those kinds of totals. 1-3" has always seemed much more realistic. Maybe it busts entirely, but we don't really know if it will get reduced to a mere cartopper... I sure hope it doesn't.  

As far as your bar always being 4".... I can't tell you how to feel about that, but for a clipper or frontal passage, that isn't realistic to expect unless you get really lucky, and I'm sure you know that. For coastal storms though, I completely agree with that standard. I try to enjoy every event that I get, though if it's a bust or a screwjob (Jan 13 was the latter for us) then obviously I'll look back in disappointment. 

I know this winter has been really frustrating, and you're usually a very thoughtful contributor, but the way I see it, even 1-2" is much better than nothing at all when you're about to get several days of bitter cold.

[psuhoffman]

Just now, Fozz said:

Those 4-6" runs always looked high to me... and for a mere frontal passage I was always skeptical of those kinds of totals. 1-3" has always seemed much more realistic. Maybe it busts entirely, but we don't really know if it will get reduced to a mere cartopper... I sure hope it doesn't.  

As far as your bar always being 4".... I can't tell you how to feel about that, but for a clipper or frontal passage, that isn't realistic to expect unless you get really lucky, and I'm sure you know that. For coastal storms though, I completely agree with that standard. I try to enjoy every event that I get, though if it's a bust or a screwjob (Jan 13 was the latter for us) then obviously I'll look back in disappointment.

so was I, I never got excited by this.  And I am not upset now...but that doesn't mean I am happy either.  It's kind of playing out the way I expected...which is why I never really got that invested into this.  

And that is also why you don't typically see me post much about clippers and frontal passages.  This got my minor interest simply because it has some chance at more upside.  I am a big game hunter.  That is why a few years ago in 2016 I was happy...I will take one 2 foot storm over a winter with 30" of 2-4 at a time anyday.  Just my preference.  I know many are opposite.  Thats totally cool. I like what I like and they like what they like.  

[CAPE]

Oh my. What have I missed? Did the Euro take away the northern tier snow?

 

Anyway, back to beer talk!

[Bob Chill]

You know that liberating feeling you get when you just don't care anymore? I was close to that a week or so ago and over the weekend I realized that the transformation is complete. I really don't care anymore. I'll keep tracking because there's still 4-8 weeks left but nothing is going to bother me. If it's warm I'll spend time outside. If there's a flawed/jacked up 1-2" deal in the mid range I'll watch it because I like seeing snow fall. On the whole though this winter has been a struggle like many others. Doesn't make sense to me to get ticked off or aggravated when the end result is a common occurrence. 

If things flip in Feb and it looks great again then awesome. If the entire month of Feb is a struggle then sobeit. At least we're not in a true DC snowhole with good storms in all directions. That does get on my nerves. There's millions of weenies up and down I95 mad at the weather gods. I'm not one of them. 

[jonjon]

4 hours ago, C.A.P.E. said:

@nw baltimore wx

@mattie g

Since you guys are the beer brewing experts here (and anyone else who wants to chime in feel free):

I have a friend who is studying Nutritional Science, and has chosen (of all things), beer sensory analysis for his dissertation. He has to brew the beer(all equipment provided) then train a panel and conduct controlled sensory analysis of the beer. He has chosen IPA as the beer style. He needs to buy all ingredients, probably in the form of a kit. The important part is he has to make 6 batches, each using a different yeast strain, with everything else remaining the same. So the challenging part is choosing 6 different yeasts that will impart noticeably different characteristics, but still produce a drinkable IPA. Any suggestion on an IPA kit(nice drinkable fruity/hoppy one for novice beer drinkers), and then of course 6 different yeast varieties that will "work" well with that particular beer kit?

Or you guys can just pass along some of your secret recipes lol.

Thanks!

I think the easy part would be coming up with a basic recipe for an IPA -- most IPA recipes follow a pretty simple malt bill as the hops are really the show.  I'm guessing the goal here is to not create the most "knock your socks off" version of an IPA, but just a basic one that is more meant to show off the variations in flavor and aroma that different yeasts impart.  A simple kit that has the basic IPA grain bill would be a Two Hearted clone recipe -- I believe Northern Brewer calls it "Dead Ringer".  Anything with a basic 2-row base, and a little caramel malt to add some color/foam stability -- then the recipe would simply be hops and yeast after that.  I also think that the Centennial hops used in that recipe would be appropriate for this project -- they are really flavorful and interesting, but won't try to steal the show that some of the more recent "hop bomb" varieties such as Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe, Amarillo  etc. would.

As far as yeast strains, I would recommend going to White Labs website, when you search under their Yeast Bank you can choose a beer style and they list off all the options of yeasts for that style.  When I hit the double IPA option about 19 different yeasts pop up.  Everything from yeasts that would be classified as more traditional English style strains, to those that are now used a lot in the hazy East Coast IPAs, to everything in between (I see an Irish option in there as well).  He could go really outside of the box and use a yeast that is traditionally used in other styles (Saison, for example), but it looks like there are sufficient options that fall into the IPA category of yeasts that he could make 6 different beers with sufficient variation based on the yeast profiles.  At Stumptown, we use a very basic, neutral yeast strain for a lot of our IPAs and Pale Ales -- it would be the equivalent of the White Labs WLP060 American Ale yeast.  This yeast does not contribute much when it comes to flavors so its clean profile allows the hops we use in the recipe to shine.  However, when we do our East Coast hazy brews, we use yeasts such as WVP008 (East Coast Ale Yeast) and WLP066 (London Fog), and its amazing how different these turn out, not just in flavor and aroma (much more juicy) but also in appearance (very hazy, especially when dry hopped liberally).

So basically, just a simple recipe using basic malts and hops that won't take away from the intention of this experiment, then choosing six yeasts from options such as White Labs, trying to chose the yeasts that will be style appropriate, but yet different enough that he won't end up with six beers with a lot of them tasting basically the same.  Hope that helps.  I'd be glad to answer any questions, I love talking about beer.  Cheers.

[psuhoffman]

10 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

You know that liberating feeling you get when you just don't care anymore? I was close to that a week or so ago and over the weekend I realized that the transformation is complete. I really don't care anymore. I'll keep tracking because there's still 4-8 weeks left but nothing is going to bother me. If it's warm I'll spend time outside. If there's a flawed/jacked up 1-2" deal in the mid range I'll watch it because I like seeing snow fall. On the whole though this winter has been a struggle like many others. Doesn't make sense to me to get ticked off or aggravated when the end result is a common occurrence. 

If things flip in Feb and it looks great again then awesome. If the entire month of Feb is a struggle then sobeit. At least we're not in a true DC snowhole with good storms in all directions. That does get on my nerves. There's millions of weenies up and down I95 mad at the weather gods. I'm not one of them. 

One thing I find odd...last year I went in expecting crap and so I was patient and optimistic we get at least one fluke snow and stayed positive until the end and it annoyed some people to the point they wanted me to have a meltdown. 

This year I had higher expectations and the realization we are likely not to meet them has me less optimistic and some of the same people are bothered that I’m kinda negative now. 

[aldie 22]

18 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

You know that liberating feeling you get when you just don't care anymore? I was close to that a week or so ago and over the weekend I realized that the transformation is complete. I really don't care anymore. I'll keep tracking because there's still 4-8 weeks left but nothing is going to bother me. If it's warm I'll spend time outside. If there's a flawed/jacked up 1-2" deal in the mid range I'll watch it because I like seeing snow fall. On the whole though this winter has been a struggle like many others. Doesn't make sense to me to get ticked off or aggravated when the end result is a common occurrence. 

If things flip in Feb and it looks great again then awesome. If the entire month of Feb is a struggle then sobeit. At least we're not in a true DC snowhole with good storms in all directions. That does get on my nerves. There's millions of weenies up and down I95 mad at the weather gods. I'm not one of them. 

I look at it this way...nobody has died so far and we are almost into February. I'm pretty sure we will all make it whether is snows or not. If it does....hey....milk and cookies and the shades open. If not....hey....milk and cookies anyway

[CAPE]

23 minutes ago, jonjon said:

I think the easy part would be coming up with a basic recipe for an IPA -- most IPA recipes follow a pretty simple malt bill as the hops are really the show.  I'm guessing the goal here is to not create the most "knock your socks off" version of an IPA, but just a basic one that is more meant to show off the variations in flavor and aroma that different yeasts impart.  A simple kit that has the basic IPA grain bill would be a Two Hearted clone recipe -- I believe Northern Brewer calls it "Dead Ringer".  Anything with a basic 2-row base, and a little caramel malt to add some color/foam stability -- then the recipe would simply be hops and yeast after that.  I also think that the Centennial hops used in that recipe would be appropriate for this project -- they are really flavorful and interesting, but won't try to steal the show that some of the more recent "hop bomb" varieties such as Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe, Amarillo  etc. would.

As far as yeast strains, I would recommend going to White Labs website, when you search under their Yeast Bank you can choose a beer style and they list off all the options of yeasts for that style.  When I hit the double IPA option about 19 different yeasts pop up.  Everything from yeasts that would be classified as more traditional English style strains, to those that are now used a lot in the hazy East Coast IPAs, to everything in between (I see an Irish option in there as well).  He could go really outside of the box and use a yeast that is traditionally used in other styles (Saison, for example), but it looks like there are sufficient options that fall into the IPA category of yeasts that he could make 6 different beers with sufficient variation based on the yeast profiles.  At Stumptown, we use a very basic, neutral yeast strain for a lot of our IPAs and Pale Ales -- it would be the equivalent of the White Labs WLP060 American Ale yeast.  This yeast does not contribute much when it comes to flavors so its clean profile allows the hops we use in the recipe to shine.  However, when we do our East Coast hazy brews, we use yeasts such as WVP008 (East Coast Ale Yeast) and WLP066 (London Fog), and its amazing how different these turn out, not just in flavor and aroma (much more juicy) but also in appearance (very hazy, especially when dry hopped liberally).

So basically, just a simple recipe using basic malts and hops that won't take away from the intention of this experiment, then choosing six yeasts from options such as White Labs, trying to chose the yeasts that will be style appropriate, but yet different enough that he won't end up with six beers with a lot of them tasting basically the same.  Hope that helps.  I'd be glad to answer any questions, I love talking about beer.  Cheers.

Jonjon- WOW. Great information! You have hit on the "missing pieces" here. I believe you are right with the idea of using a more basic recipe so that the panel (trained, but not experts) should be able to sense the somewhat subtle variations imparted by the different yeast strains. Much appreciated, and I will pass this information on.

 

I did not get out to Canaan last year, but I hope to this summer. Looking forward to tasting the Stumptown ales, especially the breakfast stout.

[Rvarookie]

I feel tweaked out just reading some of these posts. I hope some of y’all make it through to Spring (which shouldn’t be too far away). 

 

[CAPE]

@jonjon

Any thoughts on this one? 

https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/brooklyn-brew-shop-everyday-ipa-beer-making-refill

He is in the UK and this should be easy to get.

[aldie 22]

Oh by the way, I saw Stan and Ollie this weekend...fantastic movie if you are a fan of Laurel and Hardy

[jonjon]

4 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

@jonjon

Any thoughts on this one? 

https://www.beerhawk.co.uk/brooklyn-brew-shop-everyday-ipa-beer-making-refill

He is in the UK and this should be easy to get.

I can't tell what grains and hops are used on this, but I'm sure that would do the trick just fine.

[CAPE]

4 minutes ago, jonjon said:

I can't tell what grains and hops are used on this, but I'm sure that would do the trick just fine.

I looked on the Brooklyn Brew Shop site and it looks like the kit contains Cascade and Columbus hops.

[jonjon]

1 minute ago, C.A.P.E. said:

I looked on the Brooklyn Brew Shop site and it looks like the kit contains Cascade and Columbus hops.

Yeah, sounds like Columbus is the bittering hop and Cascade would be the flavor/aroma hop.   Certainly not going to be a "rock star" IPA, but should be perfect for this experiment.

[mattie g]

2 hours ago, C.A.P.E. said:

I did some research and several of those yeasts came up. I mean, on the surface it would seem one could pick any ale yeast and brew the damn beer using that kit, but obviously there is a lot of nuance in this process.

You can brew a beer using any mashed grain and one (or more) of a host of different strains of yeast, but the outcome will be hugely different if you were to use, for example, a clean ale strain like Safale 05 in one and something like a hefeweizen yeast in another. It's finding the nuances between very similar strains and teasing them out via pitch rate and fermentation temperature that separates the men from the boys. There's also the interaction between certain hops and certain yeasts that take it a level further (at least in terms of "modern" IPAs).

Lots to chew on, and it can really take you down a rabbit hole if you let it!

[CAPE]

Just now, mattie g said:

You can brew a beer using any mashed grain and one (or more) of a host of different strains of yeast, but the outcome will be hugely different if you were to use, for example, a clean ale strain like Safale 05 in one and something like a hefeweizen yeast in another. It's finding the nuances between very similar strains and teasing them out via pitch rate and fermentation temperature that separates the men from the boys. There's also the interaction between certain hops and certain yeasts that take it a level further (at least in terms of "modern" IPAs).

Lots to chew on, and it can really take you down a rabbit hole if you let it!

This will definitely be "boy level" brewing. 

He already picked out a bunch of yeast strains but too many seemed similar. I will pass on the info you guys provided so he can refine things.

[showmethesnow]

Geez, all this beer talk as got me thirsty. Then I realized I had one can of Terrapin Oatmeal Coffee Stout left.  Bingo!!!

 

[CAPE]

6 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Geez, all this beer talk as got me thirsty. Then I realized I had one can of Terrapin Oatmeal Coffee Stout left.  Bingo!!!

 

Now ya talkin'.

[JakkelWx]

If we don't get 200% AN snowfall this winter, it will be DT Wxrisk's epic dumpster fire fail forecast for the winter of MMXVIII - MMXIX!

[T. August]

Gfs is teasing my ass. It’s showing the regional jack over my crib. I have to keep giving myself pep-talks in the mirror. I will remain strong.

[snowfan]

Fairfax co already w a 2hr early dismissal tmrw.

[eurojosh]

Fropa or Faux Pas amiright

[Mrs.J]

13 minutes ago, snowfan said:

Fairfax co already w a 2hr early dismissal tmrw.

Was wondering who was going to start the party. 

Funny that I am in Fred Co MD and I bet we don’t get a call till 5 am tomorrow for anything. 

[JakkelWx]

Weeklies just cancelled February. The panic room might crash the forums!

[Bob Chill]

9 minutes ago, JakkelWx said:

Weeklies just cancelled February. The panic room might crash the forums!

Nah, probably the best news I've heard today. Weeklies have verified opposite all winter. Get your shovel ready.

[WxUSAF]

2 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Nah, probably the best news I've heard today. Weeklies have verified opposite all winter. Get your shovel ready.

Agree. Now we can stop chasing epic pattern and just wait to see if we get a few threats through our last 5/6 weeks of winter. I very much doubt Friday is the end of winter.