December Discussion II

[USCAPEWEATHERAF]

I don't remember that storm, December 20th, 2009

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

December has been dreadful for the better part of the last decade here.

I believe our last white christmas was 2010? And even then, I’m not sure that even qualified.. I know we had an inch or two of glacier.  

For perspective, I had started dating my girlfriend in November 2010.. we were 16.... we are now engaged and getting married in October and we’ll be 25. So, white Christmas is hard to come by here

[powderfreak]

11 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Have to love ASOS coding, lt snow mist at 15 degrees, lt snow fog, visibilities half mile

Yeah I never understand the mist... it seems it's not possible for it to precipitate at ASOS spots without "mist" showing up.  

[USCAPEWEATHERAF]

1 minute ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

December has been dreadful for the better part of the last decade here.

I believe our last white christmas was 2010? And even then, I’m not sure that even qualified.. I know we had an inch or two of glacier.  

For perspective, I had started dating my girlfriend in November 2010.. we were 16.... we are now engaged and getting married in October and we’ll be 25. So, white Christmas is hard to come by here

I thought you were at least older than I am, I am turning 30 in August 2019, man when I met Ray in 2014, I thought we were young, I was 25 at that point.

[ORH_wxman]

3 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

December has been dreadful for the better part of the last decade here.

I believe our last white christmas was 2010? And even then, I’m not sure that even qualified.. I know we had an inch or two of glacier.  

For perspective, I had started dating my girlfriend in November 2010.. we were 16.... we are now engaged and getting married in October and we’ll be 25. So, white Christmas is hard to come by here

You got skunked last year on Christmas morning?

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Just now, ORH_wxman said:

You got skunked last year on Christmas morning?

I’d have to check exactly what we got... but a couple tenths? Bob and Matt can back that up... we got kind of hosed relative to the rest of the area. By the time we changed over, not much precip left 

edit: we had an half inch here

[OceanStWx]

7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah I never understand the mist... it seems it's not possible for it to precipitate at ASOS spots without "mist" showing up.  

Check the dews.

When vis drops below 7SM, the ASOS wants to report an obscuration or precip. If the dewpoint depression is <= 4, FG or BR will be reported. Then it goes to visibility. 7 > vis > 5/8SM is BR, < 5/8 is FG. 

FZFG if the temp is below 32. And on the off chance the sensor does not pick up precip but the above conditions are satisfied, HZ is reported.

[OceanStWx]

When the readings went to 15/10 it reported only -SN, when they went back to 15/11 it was -SN BR

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Check the dews.

When vis drops below 7SM, the ASOS wants to report an obscuration or precip. If the dewpoint depression is <= 4, FG or BR will be reported. Then it goes to visibility. 7 > vis > 5/8SM is BR, < 5/8 is FG. 

FZFG if the temp is below 32. And on the off chance the sensor does not pick up precip but the above conditions are satisfied, HZ is reported.

Ahh interesting.  Had no idea it was tied into the Td depression.  

I guess I don't get why if it's reporting precipitation does it need to report mist/fog?  Wouldn't the falling precip satisfy its need to report something due to the visibility obstruction?

[Ginx snewx]

19 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

December has been dreadful for the better part of the last decade here.

I believe our last white christmas was 2010? And even then, I’m not sure that even qualified.. I know we had an inch or two of glacier.  

For perspective, I had started dating my girlfriend in November 2010.. we were 16.... we are now engaged and getting married in October and we’ll be 25. So, white Christmas is hard to come by here

about right historically for you

[tamarack]

then we had the retrostorm 1/1-1/3 and then winter basically ended after MLK storm. 

It ended here about 1 AM on Jan. 3, when that retro-winterkiller brought in enough maritime air to change the snow to rain.  The MLK storm teased, the WINDEX of 1/28 was nice if brief, and it was well into December before we saw powder again.  (Just some slush'n'slop)

[Ginx snewx]

4 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Ahh interesting.  Had no idea it was tied into the Td depression.  

I guess I don't get why if it's reporting precipitation does it need to report mist/fog?  Wouldn't the falling precip satisfy its need to report something due to the visibility obstruction?

Its so so tough for ASOS to go S+, basically visibility has to be yards.

[OceanStWx]

3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Ahh interesting.  Had no idea it was tied into the Td depression.  

I guess I don't get why if it's reporting precipitation does it need to report mist/fog?  Wouldn't the falling precip satisfy its need to report something due to the visibility obstruction?

I misspoke there, they are two separate sensors, ptype and visibility. So when visibility drops it needs an obscuration. Sometimes precip happens to be occurring as well.

[Ginx snewx]

2 minutes ago, tamarack said:

It ended here about 1 AM on Jan. 3, when that retro-winterkiller brought in enough maritime air to change the snow to rain.  The MLK storm teased, the WINDEX of 1/28 was nice if brief, and it was well into December before we saw powder again.  (Just some slush'n'slop)

I had 20 inches in Feb but mostly sloppy seconds, although the 7 on my birthday was sweet

[tamarack]

Just now, Ginx snewx said:

I had 20 inches in Feb but mostly sloppy seconds, although the 7 on my birthday was sweet

Following the Jan. 28 squall, we went 25 days with no measurable precip of any kind, IIRC the longest such stretch I've experienced since Oct. 1963.  (though my pre-1976 records are incomplete at best)  Then came the 4:1 mashed potatoes, quickly reduced by 1"+ RA to 2.5-to-1 cement.

[40/70 Benchmark]

1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I just need a capture and 3 day stall near MVY that drops 50”-70” 

gotta be something in the scrolls 

I thinker sustaining the dynamics associated with cyclogensis is the greater challenge than the slow rate of movement.

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, tamarack said:

Following the Jan. 28 squall, we went 25 days with no measurable precip of any kind, IIRC the longest such stretch I've experienced since Oct. 1963.  (though my pre-1976 records are incomplete at best)  Then came the 4:1 mashed potatoes, quickly reduced by 1"+ RA to 2.5-to-1 cement.

you guys got squashed by the elephant 

[powderfreak]

7 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

I misspoke there, they are two separate sensors, ptype and visibility. So when visibility drops it needs an obscuration. Sometimes precip happens to be occurring as well.

Ahhh ok that makes sense then.  The visibility sensor isn't necessarily talking to the precip sensor.  I thought it was one in the same...but they are two independently occurring things.  It's snowing.  Visibility is 2 miles.  Not, visibility is 2 miles because it's snowing.

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, 40/70 Benchmark said:

I thinker sustaining the dynamics associated with cyclogensis is the greater challenge than the slow rate of movement.

Yep, occlusion is the problem, rotting under a dying band in a stalled system would be how it could be done. pickles needs a 1717

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, powderfreak said:

Ahhh ok that makes sense then.  The visibility sensor isn't necessarily talking to the precip sensor.  I thought it was one in the same...but they are two independently occurring things.  It's snowing.  Visibility is 2 miles.  Not, visibility is 2 miles because it's snowing.

Right. And since it CAN snow heavily while being foggy, they want to make sure pilots have all information rather than just assuming it's low visibility because of heavy snow.

[40/70 Benchmark]

4 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Yep, occlusion is the problem, rotting under a dying band in a stalled system would be how it could be done. pickles needs a 1717

Now is the time of year to chance it, though...tougher to pull off in March from a solar irradiance stand point.

[alex]

Today just won't let up. 

[Ginx snewx]

5 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Right. And since it CAN snow heavily while being foggy, they want to make sure pilots have all information rather than just assuming it's low visibility because of heavy snow.

 

[Ginx snewx]

Just now, alex said:

Today just won't let up. 

Lol I remember when you were going to move up there and you were asking us about upslope there

[OceanStWx]

1 minute ago, Ginx snewx said:

Yep, occlusion is the problem, rotting under a dying band in a stalled system would be how it could be done. pickles needs a 1717

Yeah, there aren't many ways to really get that done. Stall the system and remain in the narrow moisture flux is definitely one. 

But historical tales of widespread 4 ft monster blizzards are most likely exaggerations of our typical blockbusters. The extreme totals happen on a much more localized scale. March 1888 and February 1969 are likely the upper bounds of what a nor'easter can produce on a regional scale before petering out.

[dryslot]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Hasn't stopped snowing all day up here though its very light with no real accumulation.  Just massive fluffy dendrites floating around in a snow globe style.  Looks like a Hollywood film outside where they have some actors walking down a sidewalk while huge flakes swirl in all directions. 

Incredibly festive Christmas shopping weather in the village after last night's light snowfall too.

Might pick up again as a little increase in moisture seems to be pushing into the mountains.

#persistentflurry mood flakes.

Pretty much been a daily occurrence up there has it not?

[Ginx snewx]

3 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Yeah, there aren't many ways to really get that done. Stall the system and remain in the narrow moisture flux is definitely one. 

But historical tales of widespread 4 ft monster blizzards are most likely exaggerations of our typical blockbusters. The extreme totals happen on a much more localized scale. March 1888 and February 1969 are likely the upper bounds of what a nor'easter can produce on a regional scale before petering out.

If you look at the 78 sats you can see where that dying band set up south of Boston over to ne ri

[OceanStWx]

Just now, Ginx snewx said:

If you look at the 78 sats you can see where that dying band set up south of Boston over ne ri

Yeah, and in a relative sense the extreme totals ended up being more localized to SNE, and really the eastern part at that.

[ORH_wxman]

You can regenerate precip on a stalled system with spokes of vorticity going around the ULL...the precip just tends to be more localized as already mentioned. We saw this in march 2001 in spots in NH that got around 40 inches. 

The other way is to basically have completely separate waves along a stalled frontal boundary and in that case, the precip shields would remain much more robust...but then you are almost talking about more than one storm even if the snow is nearly continuous. 

[OceanStWx]

Boy a repeat of 1888 would feature some all time melts.

Scooter with 1 inch while Will is digging out of 36".