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December/January Medium/Long Range Discussion


WinterWxLuvr

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2-3" is acceptable, but grass coverer has always been my general threshold.

looks like the midwest is in for some fun tracking the next 2 weeks and then maybe we get into our pattern.  i agree with chill that if the pattern becomes favorable starting early january, you really can't ask for better timing.  that's the start of our wheelhouse.

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1 hour ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Not at all. The NAO is not some esoteric thing- the impact a -NAO has on our chances of major winter storm occurrences is well understood.

I was speaking in terms of frequency, but in fairness SSW, while not as understood, still can have every bit...or more impact on bringing cold to lower latitudes. Not sure how that is disputable ( and I’m not looking to argue). Just pointing out that it holds weight....even though it’s much more of a rarity. 

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35 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Today's run was the kind of step back I don't mind as much.  I agree with Bob and you that this is a step progression. Today's euro is still heading the way we want. Retrograde that trough in the PAC slightly and it gets good fast. Yesterday's run was more a complete "lost the pattern progression completely" burp. I fully expect it to take some time to get to the good stuff. Doesn't mean we can't luck into an event during the transition. But as long as we're heading the right way I'm content.

Kinda lol at the people acting like winter can't be good if it starts January 15. How often do we get a wall to wall winter?  Would 2010 not have been remembered as good had the December hecs missed?  People talk about 87 like it was good but nothing happened until late January. Most admit 2015 was good. But now it has to snow early or the winter sucks?  People are entitled to their opinion. I have no right to tell them what to feel. But I'm not nearly as picky about when my snow comes. But I don't like being miserable all the time. 

Truth. Y’all need to think about bolded. We just don’t live in locals that afford us the option to be picky. Take what we can when we can and be thankful when it’s snowing. Big/epic patterns are elusive and just few and far between. Think about the ROI on our searches for epic patterns over the years. It’s a labor of love that’s for sure. Surely they are awesome when they happen but if that’s  your bar....you’ll be happier once you lower it a bit. 

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2 minutes ago, nj2va said:

18z FV3 ice/sleet to rain for NYE.  18z GFS has a minor snow event shortly after the new year.  Goes along with Bob’s theory of seeing some frozen before the mega flip.  

Exactly. How many times have we had to "wait our turn" as we exit a hideous pattern and transition to one than puts us back in the game?

Jan can be very forgiving. A track to our west can deliver a respectable event. Quite a few "flawed" setups can put snow on the ground now that we're hitting prime climo.

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1 hour ago, psuhoffman said:

Bob wasn't saying we won't get a warning event this winter. He was just saying the next 2 weeks during the pattern transition favors minor events. What's wrong with appetizers while we wait for the main course?

Well, the thing is, for both the MA and even more so the SE, there is no guarantee that the main course ever gets here, so it is always stressful.  I don't chose to feel that way, but there is nothing I can do to control it.  

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6 minutes ago, Ji said:
9 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:
@Ji kinda reminds me of the model runs from Dec last year 
gfs_ir_us_33.png&key=7f3187987a7fc78bbd083dafaa9cd3f7e8e803dd43ab348bb7af839419994c7b
 

So it will fizzle out to nothing by Monday...o r become pd3 lol

Scoring on the front side of a pattern flip would be a good sign. It's all we have right now so may as well get to work obsessing over it 

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The overnight EPS snowfall means increased somewhat for the period on or just shortly after New Years compared to the 12Z though we are still not seeing the totals we were just a couple of days ago. 

The last couple of runs the EPS has started moving towards the idea of a coastal low during this time frame. Actually a nice setup except for one thing. Have the 50/50 in place to lock in the high to our north but we are also seeing low pressure over the lakes which is not only eroding the high to its west it is also driving in warm air to screw up the temps. Take that GL low out, weaken it or delay it and it gets interesting. 

mslpeps.thumb.gif.bcf62382e04c6210f825f39ebd4a9c64.gif

 

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10 hours ago, pasnownut said:

I was speaking in terms of frequency, but in fairness SSW, while not as understood, still can have every bit...or more impact on bringing cold to lower latitudes. Not sure how that is disputable ( and I’m not looking to argue). Just pointing out that it holds weight....even though it’s much more of a rarity. 

Gotcha. A legit -NAO has been scarce in recent winters.

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28 minutes ago, C.A.P.E. said:

It took a huge leap forward. Now that's more like it.

Hopefully 12z today wont take a step back. :whistle:

Think some can't see the forest for the trees here (for you youngsters that have no idea what that saying means :) https://www.dictionary.com/browse/can-t-see-the-forest-for-the-trees ). The broad over all pattern has not changed run to run, it is the smaller scale features and the nuances on the larger scale features that are changing. And there is no way the models are going to get these things right at range and they will constantly be shifting these around. Needless to say, some of these runs that have been Meh for some, or panic inducing in others, have looked perfectly fine to me when you look at the overall picture. The overall picture says odds are favorable and that has not changed whatsoever from run to run. Been meaning to write something up to show what I mean but been a little busy with other things. Maybe later today.

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