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December 8-10, 2018 Winter Storm


Orangeburgwx
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Just now, Queencitywx said:

Only noticeable thing this run on the NAM through 60 is the high is slightly weaker. We've done okay with 1038 many times in the past though. 

Yeah, has a noticeable impact on dewpoints -- running a couple degrees warmer through NC and Va. All background noise unless it turns into a trend. 

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6 minutes ago, Buddy1987 said:

This is gold guys! ORH Wxman is amazing with this stuff when I lived up in the northeast still. Here’s the discussion:

This makes so much sense - see below, I guess all options are open.

Maybe at long leads we expect too much from the models, even in this day and age IMHO. 

I brought this over from the New England forum, thanks @ORH_wxman .   

 < 

The primary northern stream shortwave that phases on the euro doesn't come onshore near Juneau AK until 00z Friday. 

The kicker behind it doesn't come onshore until 12z Saturday in the PAC NW. 

The Arctic shortwave from the PV lobe that contributes to Quebec confluence is still over the central Arctic Ocean. It reaches Hudson Bay on Saturday...prob doesn't get decent sampling until it is near there since northern NW territories and the Canadian archipelago isn't exactly a poster child for a dense obs network...and satellite isn't going to be great there either with the extreme cold. 

Bottom line is that we have a lot of northern stream and Arctic jet shortwaves that will matter to this system that are more prone to large changes than usual due to their position. So don't be surprised to see large changes on some model guidance between now and Saturday. It doesn't mean the changes will always be good for us, but obviously we will want to see changes for a hit here. 

Anecdotally, this reasoning seems to come up with every storm, and it doesn't seem like the wave(s) coming ashore leads to big model changes most of the time. Of course, we should expect changes, four days out anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Queencitywx said:

Only noticeable thing this run on the NAM through 60 is the high is slightly weaker. We've done okay with 1038 many times in the past though. 

Talking about trends earlier, that has been a trend on the NAM.  I believe it was 1041 at one time.  I don't want to see it continue to drop, that's for sure.

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2 minutes ago, beanskip said:

Yeah, has a noticeable impact on dewpoints -- running a couple degrees warmer through NC and Va. All background noise unless it turns into a trend. 

HP actually strengthens considerably out to 75 to a 1041 parked in southeastern MN. LP placement still relatively similar to 6z position.

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16 minutes ago, Buddy1987 said:

This is gold guys! ORH Wxman is amazing with this stuff when I lived up in the northeast still. Compliments to @North Balti Zen for posting in mid atl forum as well. Here’s the discussion:

This makes so much sense - see below, I guess all options are open.

Maybe at long leads we expect too much from the models, even in this day and age IMHO. 

I brought this over from the New England forum, thanks @ORH_wxman .   

 < 

 

Makes a hecka of a lot of sense. Those kickers have come to bite us in the past on a few storms. 

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Just now, burgertime said:

Makes a hecka of a lot of sense. Those kickers have come to bite us in the past on a few storms. 

Man I can’t remember how many times it has come down to these coming onshore and all of a sudden there’s some pretty significant swings. Not saying it’s def going to happen but something to keep in the back of our minds. 

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Just now, Waiting on snow said:

People look for the fly in the ointment. Well it may be starting to show. The high is not as strong and phasing is being modeled sooner. Not sure why anyone in the se wants a phased storm. Though I see people rooting for it every year. That is only good for the MA north.

the high on the NAM is literally as strong as it's been modeled this entire time.

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4 minutes ago, Buddy1987 said:

HP actually strengthens considerably out to 75 to a 1041 parked in southeastern MN. LP placement still relatively similar to 6z position.

 

4 minutes ago, AsheCounty48 said:

It's at 1041 at hour 75 on the 12z Nam, no worries yet.

That's good news! At work so can't check models as they're coming out.

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2 minutes ago, Waiting on snow said:

People look for the fly in the ointment. Well it may be starting to show. The high is not as strong and phasing is being modeled sooner. Not sure why anyone in the se wants a phased storm. Though I see people rooting for it every year. That is only good for the MA north.

Completely wrong! I want a phase!

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Just now, AsheCounty48 said:

the high on the NAM is literally as strong as it's been modeled this entire time.

Ashe, the only thing I don’t like that I see is the HP is not sliding in tandem with the system like it was at 6z. Rather at the end of the run it stays locked up around the Green Bay, WI area, whereas 6z had it closer to central IL. If this thing phases earlier it’s going to allow that wiggle room to move further north.

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Just now, burrel2 said:

Confluence on the new nam over new england is the best it's looked yet. It delays the high pressure building a little compared to last run, but leaves more cold air to work with overall.

The last thing we want is the high to scoot eastward to quickly, so this is good.

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1 minute ago, burrel2 said:

Confluence on the new nam over new england is the best it's looked yet. It delays the high pressure building a little compared to last run, but leaves more cold air to work with overall.

Yep.. pretty big (and nice) differences with DPs compared to the FV3

namconus_Td2m_us_53.png

fv3p_Td2m_us_16.png

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2 minutes ago, burrel2 said:

Confluence on the new nam over new england is the best it's looked yet. It delays the high pressure building a little compared to last run, but leaves more cold air to work with overall.

I am very curious what the final outcome of this darn confluence is going to be. It’s been going back and forth.

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1 minute ago, Buddy1987 said:

Ashe, the only thing I don’t like that I see is the HP is not sliding in tandem with the system like it was at 6z. Rather at the end of the run it stays locked up around the Green Bay, WI area, whereas 6z had it closer to central IL. If this thing phases earlier it’s going to allow that wiggle room to move further north.

I'm perfectly ok with that. The thing that worries me, is once it moves East, it's not stopping. So as long as it can be in a somewhat decent position before the storm, that should *SHOULD* work better for everyone comparing to it scooting off too quick.

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7 minutes ago, Waiting on snow said:

People look for the fly in the ointment. Well it may be starting to show. The high is not as strong and phasing is being modeled sooner. Not sure why anyone in the se wants a phased storm. Though I see people rooting for it every year. That is only good for the MA north.

It often works for northwestern North Carolina, the Triad, and southern/central Virginia.

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9 minutes ago, Waiting on snow said:

People look for the fly in the ointment. Well it may be starting to show. The high is not as strong and phasing is being modeled sooner. Not sure why anyone in the se wants a phased storm. Though I see people rooting for it every year. That is only good for the MA north.

TOUCHE! I agree!! I would take an OVERRUNNING setup any day over phased. 

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