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December Medium/Long Range Discussion


WxUSAF

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30 minutes ago, frd said:

I have not seen this brought up yet, but I have noticed it in the previous releases from October all the way to now with the seasonal models. 

When you look at the Euro seasonal and some other models the main above average precip anamolies are all to the South of us.  

I am NOT saying the look is dry but the main +1 and + 2 deviatons are over the TN Valley, extending onto NC, and SC. etc. New England itself looked very dry. 

May not mean a thing once we get further into the season.  But, when I read your post CAPE it reminded me.    

That’s nino climo.

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25 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

That’s nino climo.

Thanks. 

The models last night reinforced your call on post Christmas looking better and better for tracking.

Looking forward to weeklies tonight for that time period. Eh, have to pass the time over the next 10 or so days.  

Still impressed by this cold every day I step outside in the morning. At least the bugs are gone, well except for the two stink bugs that hitched a ride inside our home on our Christmas tree we cut down.  ( Did not notice notice them until I heard my daughter's scream )  

Other than that pretty much a deep winter look and feel the last couple mornings, minus the snow cover :-(  

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2 hours ago, frd said:

Thanks. 

The models last night reinforced your call on post Christmas looking better and better for tracking.

Looking forward to weeklies tonight for that time period. Eh, have to pass the time over the next 10 or so days.  

Still impressed by this cold every day I step outside in the morning. At least the bugs are gone, well except for the two stink bugs that hitched a ride inside our home on our Christmas tree we cut down.  ( Did not notice notice them until I heard my daughter's scream )  

Other than that pretty much a deep winter look and feel the last couple mornings, minus the snow cover :-(  

Weeklies tonight might take longer to evolve. Last nights EPS backed off getting the trough east quickly. Interesting to see if that holds today. 

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7 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Weeklies tonight might take longer to evolve. Last nights EPS backed off getting the trough east quickly. Interesting to see if that holds today. 

Yeah, will be interesting, I do like seeing the EPO trending back down in a few days, and then near the 23 rd goes negative. 

Have to see how long to get cold back in here after that.

Might be a few days, could be a week. No clear answer yet. 

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5 minutes ago, frd said:

Yeah, will be interesting, I do like seeing the EPO trending back down in a few days, and then near the 23 rd goes negative. 

Have to see how long to get cold back in here after that.

Might be a few days, could be a week. No clear answer yet. 

If it's like the majority of epo flips, the cold will come in pieces before the motherlode. Sometimes a strong front can just blast through (like Feb 2015) but most of the time the cold highs run the east spine of the rockies then moderate as they get here before a strong front starts putting the east in the direct crosshairs. 

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3 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

If it's like the majority of epo flips, the cold will come in pieces before the motherlode. Sometimes a strong front can just blast through (like Feb 2015) but most of the time the cold highs run the east spine of the rockies then moderate as they get here before a strong front starts putting the east in the direct crosshairs. 

And that phased cold entry can provide storm chances as by late December, we don’t need too much temp help for snow. 

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2 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

And that phased cold entry can provide storm chances as by late December, we don’t need too much temp help for snow. 

Truth. The really short story is the faster we can push pac maritime air out of the way and get back to cold continental in Canada the better off we'll be. 

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16 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

If it's like the majority of epo flips, the cold will come in pieces before the motherlode. Sometimes a strong front can just blast through (like Feb 2015) but most of the time the cold highs run the east spine of the rockies then moderate as they get here before a strong front starts putting the east in the direct crosshairs. 

 

12 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

And that phased cold entry can provide storm chances as by late December, we don’t need too much temp help for snow. 

The look on the end of the EPS isnt bad per say.  Yea there are marginally high heights over the east but its still not a warm look, given that EPO cold would be pressing further into the higher heights then during other patterns.  We could get a wave type system in that pattern.  Long term keep that look up in western Canada and the CONUS would become a cold air factory and get colder and colder with a sustained NW flow...add in some nino stj action and as long as the NAO/AO dont decide to go to complete crap were probably looking at a pretty good pattern.  

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2 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

Huh...so we need to root against the EPO, then?...

No.  Just not too much.  You've seen this long enough to know that there are no absolutes in weather. 

To give you an analogy that might help, it's like making soup and ingredients used. 

Somethings missing....no good. 

Too much of something.....no good. 

Wrong blend.....

capiche?

 

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Just now, Maestrobjwa said:

Huh...so we need to root against the EPO, then?...

Dude it's over...its obviously not going to snow here ever again.  

Seriously though...if the EPO is going very negative it will cause a NW flow into the CONUS.  That will flood our area with cold.  That of course is good in that we need cold to snow.  But if we have a NW flow across the CONUS and there is no STJ or ridge at all in the southeast....it will just be cold and dry.  We might get some clippers but that's about it.  We would need some resistance to the cold.  What creates big snowstorms, in an overly simplified way without getting into a full meteorology course here, is warm air pressing or resisting the boundary with the cold air.  If cold overwhelms the pattern and there is no resistance at all that is no good.  So in an EPO driven pattern SOME SE ridge isnt a bad thing.  In that type of pattern we would be looking for wave type systems like the January storms in 2014 or the February and March 2015 systems.  Later if we build a more favorable -NAO the dynamic could change and what we want would be different.   

EVERY pattern can have nuances that would effect our snow chances.  There is NO pattern where we are guaranteed snow without needing a little luck.   Our absolute best pattern for snow involves a -NAO +PNA  and an active STJ.  That is why a nino is typically a good thing because there is a correlation between a west based nino and all 3 of those, especially the PNA and STJ...then just get a period of favorable NAO and...boom.  BUT we have had plenty of such patterns where it just didn't come together.  The blocking was centered slightly too far south and the storm got suppressed.  The confluence left 12 hours too early and the storm cut.  We still need things to break our way even in a good pattern.  That's why the median snowfall for this area is only about 15".  If it was that easy to get snow here it would be a lot higher.  

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A little less northern stream and the 22/23rd storm on the GFS might have been good.  Still has the idea of a threat right after xmas.  Looks like a typical EPO pattern with storms running the boundary west to east. 

ETA:  its dumping everything into the west on this run for the storm after xmas...pumping a monster ridge ahead of it...  one possible option, that can happen in an epo pattern with no atlantic blocking if too much energy digs into the west in one piece.   

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