Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,609
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    NH8550
    Newest Member
    NH8550
    Joined

Winter 2018-19 Medium/Long Range Discussion


snowlover2

Recommended Posts

Wouldn't be surprised to see a small window of freezing rain potential on Saturday morning. Models could be under-estimating snow depth and thus overdoing surface temps. Its something to keep an eye, probably won't know until it becomes a short term situation. One of friends at DVN was telling me he was concerned for icing locally in Eastern Iowa/Northwest IL, especially further northwest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 735
  • Created
  • Last Reply

DonS has some positive thoughts going forward for Chicago/Detroit

53 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

To date, Chicago has received 12.7" snow and Detroit has picked up 6.7".

At present, everything appears to be on track for a normal to snowier than normal winter. The odds probably lean toward the latter.

To examine where things stand and where they might wind up, I constructed a snowfall profile using the following criteria for total snowfall through November 30:

Chicago (12.7" so far): 4" or more
Cleveland (4.4" so far): 1" - 10"
Detroit (6.7" so far): 2" or more
Milwaukee (6.6" so far): 2" - 12"

The following years fit that criteria (for which a common record exists for the above cities):

1893, 1947, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1974, 1975, 1978, and 1980

Mean seasonal snowfall for Chicago and Detroit was as follows:

Chicago: 47.2" (standard deviation: 17.8")
Detroit: 44.2" (standard deviation: 10.7")

I also constructed a sum of the squares errors analysis. The 5 years with a sum of the squares error < 60" were:

1893, 1959, 1975, 1978, and 2015. 

Mean seasonal snowfall for Chicago and Detroit was as follows:

Chicago: 51.9" (standard deviation: 22.3")
Detroit: 44.0" (standard deviation: 8.7")

The majority of winters cited above did not feature an El Niño. Further, 2015-16 featured a super El Niño event.

Thus, at least at this point, my thinking is that the snowfall figures will likely exceed what is described above. Therefore, I continue to have confidence that my thinking for Chicago (45"-55") and Detroit (50"-60") remains reasonable.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Stebo said:

DonS has some positive thoughts going forward for Chicago/Detroit

 

 Sounds good. DTX issued their Winter outlook finally. Pretty much call for December to be slightly warmer and slightly less snowy than normal and January and February to be slightly colder and slightly snowier the normal. A very broad brushed outlook not varying much from climo but the take away is what I have heard from several other sources- that December will be the weakest Winter month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/5/2018 at 10:43 AM, Malacka11 said:

The 13th-15th system looks interesting. Too bad it's still this far out

You couldn't draw up a much better Lake Michigan coastal flooding/erosion scenario than the 12z GFS.  Strong low meanders around southeast of the area.  Odds of both things happening (a low that deep and meandering around) aren't great, but otherwise, hopefully somebody can thread the needle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hoosier said:

You couldn't draw up a much better Lake Michigan coastal flooding/erosion scenario than the 12z GFS.  Strong low meanders around southeast of the area.  Odds of both things happening (a low that deep and meandering around) aren't great, but otherwise, hopefully somebody can thread the needle.

And then the 12z Euro comes in and pretty much whiffs our subforum to the south.  Not sure where that came from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm mildly interested in Wednesday's clipper/hybrid. Pretty stout little wave with it, along with steep mid-level lapse rates. Quickly cooling 850s shown on the models are indicative of the rapid height falls and evaporative cooling given very dry low and mid levels ahead of system.

 

Someone could get a surprise slushy inch or two or three *if* the wave ends up as strong as shown on recent Euro/GFS/NAM op runs. It's somewhat reminiscent to me of the fast moving burst of heavy snow this past Feb 17th. We had a very marginal air mass ahead of it but the steep lapse rates & evaporative cooling more than made up for it.

 

After the possible Wednesday system, late week closed low is a crap shoot and not worth trying to figure specifics yet, also any snow accums will be very thread the needle with it. Thereafter, our mild +EPO pattern should continue until about the 20th or so. At that point, ensembles are indicating the GOAK vortex retrograding to the Aleutians for classic weak Nino position allowing -EPO to build and cold to return. There's also a decent chance of -AO returning with SPV displacement/split possibly further aided by a SSW.

 

There could be a window for some winter fun somewhere in the sub in the runup to Christmas, with the -EPO induced downstream trough possibly dumping cold air mass into the west/Plains and sub forum and then spreading east. Euro ensemble runs have been pretty consistent with this idea toward the end of the runs the past few days and 06z GEFS also hinting at that. Way out there, but worth watching for if we can get a stronger west/southwest system before trough axis maybe shifts farther east after Christmas. The pattern will almost certainly continue to suck in general between now and about the 20th, but I'm cautiously optimistic for the last 10-11 days of the month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RCNYILWX said:

I'm mildly interested in Wednesday's clipper/hybrid. Pretty stout little wave with it, along with steep mid-level lapse rates. Quickly cooling 850s shown on the models are indicative of the rapid height falls and evaporative cooling given very dry low and mid levels ahead of system.

 

Someone could get a surprise slushy inch or two or three *if* the wave ends up as strong as shown on recent Euro/GFS/NAM op runs. It's somewhat reminiscent to me of the fast moving burst of heavy snow this past Feb 17th. We had a very marginal air mass ahead of it but the steep lapse rates & evaporative cooling more than made up for it.

 

After the possible Wednesday system, late week closed low is a crap shoot and not worth trying to figure specifics yet, also any snow accums will be very thread the needle with it. Thereafter, our mild +EPO pattern should continue until about the 20th or so. At that point, ensembles are indicating the GOAK vortex retrograding to the Aleutians for classic weak Nino position allowing -EPO to build and cold to return. There's also a decent chance of -AO returning with SPV displacement/split possibly further aided by a SSW.

 

There could be a window for some winter fun somewhere in the sub in the runup to Christmas, with the -EPO induced downstream trough possibly dumping cold air mass into the west/Plains and sub forum and then spreading east. Euro ensemble runs have been pretty consistent with this idea toward the end of the runs the past few days and 06z GEFS also hinting at that. Way out there, but worth watching for if we can get a stronger west/southwest system before trough axis maybe shifts farther east after Christmas. The pattern will almost certainly continue to suck in general between now and about the 20th, but I'm cautiously optimistic for the last 10-11 days of the month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

sweet write up, RCNYILWX.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Impressive flip from ++EPO to -EPO on 06z GEFS next week through Christmas. The good news is the ensembles continue to be consistent with this pattern flip. The bad news is the pattern will be brutal for most for winter interests until then. When the flip occurs, and from reading other long range gurus, have no reason right now to doubt that it will, the hope is that the look shown on the ensembles will equate to chances for some events instead of a big cutter followed by cold and dry. b686d19672512a808d9e8bf141b59a61.gif&key=e57d8fa2c4703807baf191935ed25c27759a18b76d563f85b070cf32db38d1a7

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the PNA is initially neutral or negative (as the EPS in particular shows) when the EPO drops, have to think that may favor a window for possible wintry weather in the Midwest before it gets too suppressive.  I suspect the East Coast might have to impatiently wait through the week of Christmas for better snow chances along I-95, though I still think we’re recovering from the mid November coastal/fiasco anyways. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, hlcater said:

Yea that advertised pattern change can’t come soon enough. Out here in IA, I can’t remember the last time the first half of December was any good. Seem to always find our way into a bad pattern.

Lately the 20th to the 27th has sucked. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jonger said:

Lately the 20th to the 27th has sucked. 

Last year the weather during Christmas week was awesome in my location. Plowed fresh snow all morning after opening gifts then lake effect kicked in and we got another 4" on top of the 6"+ we already had on the ground. Not sure I can remember a more beautiful Christmas morning weather wise then last year. I'm kinda thinking we've had more white Christmases then not the past 5 years or so at least at my location. I'm kinda thinking we're due for a brown/wet not so pretty one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, slow poke said:

Last year the weather during Christmas week was awesome in my location. Plowed fresh snow all morning after opening gifts then lake effect kicked in and we got another 4" on top of the 6"+ we already had on the ground. Not sure I can remember a more beautiful Christmas morning weather wise then last year. I'm kinda thinking we've had more white Christmases then not the past 5 years or so at least at my location. I'm kinda thinking we're due for a brown/wet not so pretty one.

Always tough to know if you're talking about home in SEMI, or your place in the Northland? Just looked at the last five Dec 20-27th's here in Marshall. He's correct in saying the vast majority have sucked. Last year started with 4 warm days and bare ground by the 23rd, but another brown Christmas was avoided by the system snow that began on the 24th and peaked on Christmas Day. I measured snow all four days 24-27th and actually for an 11 day stretch every day featured at least some snow to measure. One of the better stretches of last season. Ofc, 2016 we started that period with a nice snow cover but were above freezing every day leading up to the torch-off on the 26th. '14 & '15 were dumpster fire bad. Even 2013 lost traction during that period. Some light snows kept Christmas from being totally brown, but we were down to piles again until the New Years storm. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...