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NYC/PHL December 24-27 Potential Part 3


earthlight

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Clearly the GFS is trending close to the euro... I don't think there needs to be a compromise right now(maybe some weenie in me)..

I'll be more interested once all the s/w's come into the better data gathering areas to see if the they can have a consensus.

A surface compromise between the 12z Euro and GFS would yield a mid 970s low in the NYC/NJ money zone. This is an invalid exercise, but somewhat comforting.

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Clearly the GFS is trending close to the euro... I don't think there needs to be a compromise right now(maybe some weenie in me)..

I'll be more interested once all the s/w's come into the better data gathering areas to see if the they can have a consensus.

About 1:30 AM the Euro should have all the players on the field, i.e. on land, so this is one run where everything can go screwy fast.

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So forgive the weenie-like question, because I'm still relatively new to looking at models and extrapolating from them, but what does this 12z run bore out to regarding ratios from the South Jersey (2+ qpf) to the Pottstown (1.5 qpf) area? Would we still see relatively similar totals across this area due to higher ratios in the west?

A lot of the totals are influenced by where the most intense banding occurs, and where a potential 'pivot' might occur.

On the far western side of the main deformation band, sometimes totals can be suppressed, while closest to the center of low pressure can be at risk of dryslotting.

The qpf readout at this point is really 'potential' in that there is sufficient precipitation on the model to give that readout. Your location could receive a 'lollipop' of 24 inches while other places might only get 14 inches, as an example.

It should be interesting to see how the models handle the live data input from stationary arrays and weather balloons. Tonights runs should be very interesting indeed!

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A surface compromise between the 12z Euro and GFS would yield a mid 970s low in the NYC/NJ money zone. This is an invalid exercise, but somewhat comforting.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Euro ensembles have this look. A SLP slightly NE of the OP (and deepening later) would benefit the tri-state area. But such an ideal solution also puts us closer to a miss, so the Euro as shown is easily acceptable.

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So forgive the weenie-like question, because I'm still relatively new to looking at models and extrapolating from them, but what does this 12z run bore out to regarding ratios from the South Jersey (2+ qpf) to the Pottstown (1.5 qpf) area? Would we still see relatively similar totals across this area due to higher ratios in the west?

yes most likely, coastal nj may see some mixing.

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Yep, you got it John. And if this storm doesn't happen the NWS may need to issue suicide warnings and dare I say psychotherapy advisories.

Aw...the infamous weenie suicide warnings and watches...model trends away from big snow may cause radar hallucinations...mass frustration...and perhaps driving cars off of bridges. Caution be advised.

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Am I the only one who is not very excited yet simply because we are still 5 days out. So much can trend in 5 days that I'm just not putting myself on alert unless this same solution is still being shown on Friday.

You're not alone. I'm also not excited because I'm more inland and well away from even the EURO's position.

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Am I the only one who is not very excited yet simply because we are still 5 days out. So much can trend in 5 days that I'm just not putting myself on alert unless this same solution is still being shown on Friday.

yea i agree with you. I mean we are below the 5 days mark, more like 4 right now. With phasing storms one little change can send this somewhere else. I like where things stand right now imho

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Am I the only one who is not very excited yet simply because we are still 5 days out. So much can trend in 5 days that I'm just not putting myself on alert unless this same solution is still being shown on Friday.

I'm with you. I'm cautiously optimistic. But we have seen things change many times when the SW gets sampled better.

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The Euro ops is no longer a borderline outlier at 12z. The ensemble mean would be pretty destructive.

If the euro ensembles are converging on a hit, and the GFS ensembles all looked pretty close too, that is a very strong signal at this range, IMO.

If hits continue on the major models at 00Z tonight, it is still early but our chances will increase quite a bit for a storm.

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Am I the only one who is not very excited yet simply because we are still 5 days out. So much can trend in 5 days that I'm just not putting myself on alert unless this same solution is still being shown on Friday.

Normally I would be getting excited started tomorrow but I'm supposed to be flying to Central America on Monday...

Cheers

Howie

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If the euro ensembles are converging on a hit, and the GFS ensembles all looked pretty close too, that is a very strong signal at this range, IMO.

If you combine all the model action/trends today so far, I would say on a scale of 1-10, 1 being worst 10 being best, probably dealing with a 7 or so.

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Am I the only one who is not very excited yet simply because we are still 5 days out. So much can trend in 5 days that I'm just not putting myself on alert unless this same solution is still being shown on Friday.

Cautious optimism is the best right now. I like the fact the Euro is so consistent, and its ensembles are west again. GFS looked better, and the UKMet looked better. GGEM was the only one slightly worse for us.

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I am not getting optimistic until tmagan posts the KMA

What happened to the supersecret LWX model we clung to a few times last year? What's it say?

I do want to point out that the GFS was putting out QPF numbers at 180 hrs that were prettty similar to the EURO ensembles today. As I may have said here before, when we've gotten noreastres this fall, the GFS was pretty good QPF wise in the Day 7 period and then would lose the solution, often not getting to its final solution until 48 hours out...

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