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NYC/PHL December 24-27 Potential Part 3


earthlight

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To think a little positively (to possibly all our detriments :axe: ), those who point out the shortwave isn't completely onshore are correct. It will be better sampled for the 12Z run. If we don't start to see good trends in the GFS by then, I think we might be in trouble...

Didn't we have all those awesome runs with the half sampled s/w with the last storm and then everything flipped once the s/w was fully sampled? LOL.

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To think a little positively (to possibly all our detriments :axe: ), those who point out the shortwave isn't completely onshore are correct. It will be better sampled for the 12Z run. If we don't start to see good trends in the GFS by then, I think we might be in trouble...

yeah if I had to put money on when the money shift will be, its 12z tommorow...if we are sitting here tommorow nite with all the same players holding all the same cards...the game ain't over but like they say if you are at the table trying to guess who the sucker is, the sucker is you. Wish they could do some extra sampling up north too.

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Sort of OT but I would like to point out, these 0z runs are not do or die, not with this setup. Even if Euro shys away from a coastal solution, although it would decrease the chance of it happening, does not take it off the table. As many people have mentioned we are dealing a with a fragile phase where small changes early on can amount to enormous differences later in the run. So remember either way its not over.

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Oh sure, there are still significant differences between the two models, but, synoptically, I didn't see anything other than speed diffs between 12z and 0z in the GFS. Did you, since I'm watching the football game too and I wasn't looking at every minute detail?

Minor things. Slight shift west in the ridge, and phasing maybe slightly earlier.

I still say this surface low is about 25-50 miles too far east based on what is going on at H5. A ton of PVA going on right along the coast.

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This is Per Meteorologist Jeff Berardeli From the Tri- state Weather Forums On the latest GFS run..BTW First post at American posted a handful of times over at Eastern..

Weather Warrior

Posts: 365

(12/22/10 11:16 PM)

Meteorologist

Guys this is a much better run for you... don't pay attention to surface low. 500mb pattern is all that is important. and this run has a very good 500mb pattern and vorticity advection... judging by the 500mb low/ vort advec the surface low should be about 100 miles further west than depicted. just move the precip shield about 100 miles west and that is the reality of this model run.

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Looks like there's lots of energy to be had that will eventually spin up a major storm, and SE NE gets blasted on this run pretty good, but it won't do us any good if the storm stays sheared out until it's already past our longitude. Hopefully the Euro holds firm in terms of its timing of this southern feature, I think that if it phases near the timeframe and location the Euro has, we should be awesome. We might even have a little wiggle room in that regard since the snow gets well west into PA on the last few Euro runs. I also think it has to be more than just the Euro hold-back-energy bias at play since it's had the SAME outcome for 5 runs now. The GFS often has a too quick/overemphasize front side energy bias as well, so I'm not that worried yet.

Well said, agreed. I made a similar post earlier this evening about the euro's biases but the likelihood of them being in play right now is pretty low considering we've seen 6-7 consecutive runs with about the same solution. The GFS has certainly been more erratic w/ run to run inconsistency, and I suspect you're correct wrt rushing the phase out front rather than consolidating the vort energy into a more distinct/developed s/w.

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I still say this surface low is about 25-50 miles too far east based on what is going on at H5. A ton of PVA going on right along the coast.

Yeah, I can buy that with where the diffluence is aloft. Looks like there are the usual convective issues, judging by the vort.

I don't really get the bridge jumping over the sfc low position and QPF fields this far out.

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Yeah, I can buy that with where the diffluence is aloft. Looks like there are the usual convective issues, judging by the vort.

I don't really get the bridge jumping over the sfc low position and QPF fields this far out.

I think there is concern over the NAM and GFS accelerating the shortwave now that it is making landfall, and wondering if the Euro does the same, and thus comes in east.

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I don't really get the bridge jumping over the sfc low position and QPF fields this far out.

+1

The fact is, had the GFS shown a massive hit, folks would be saying things like "there is no way this holds serve for 10 more runs, we're doomed".

Relax people. GFS shows storm just a tad east and we are 100+ hrs out. That and the Euro has shown a massive hit for 6 straight runs now (soon to be 7)

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I think there is concern over the NAM and GFS accelerating the shortwave now that it is making landfall, and wondering if the Euro does the same, and thus comes in east.

That's a valid concern. If you're comparing the GFS run to the 12z Euro, that makes sense. But comparing between GFS runs, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

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I think there is concern over the NAM and GFS accelerating the shortwave now that it is making landfall, and wondering if the Euro does the same, and thus comes in east.

Does the Euro use the same "timeframe" data as the GFS/NAM or does it have slightly newer info since it runs a few hours later?

Just curious if the Euro would have a more accurate analysis of the shortwave entering the west?

Thanks!

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Does the Euro use the same "timeframe" data as the GFS/NAM or does it have slightly newer info since it runs a few hours later?

Just curious if the Euro would have a more accurate analysis of the shortwave entering the west?

Thanks!

Same time. It takes longer due to fact that it has more data to work with.

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if the euro would continue as advertised and show us what it has been... can we call this thing and say its going to happen or is it still too soon?

Too soon. I'd say by 12z suite tomorrow we should start to see pretty good convergence in the model data, but I suspect there will still be fluctuation right up until 36-48 hours prior to the storm. In terms of whether it's happening or not, IMO the probability of this being a complete whiff w/ no snow for everyone is very low.

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if the euro would continue as advertised and show us what it has been... can we call this thing and say its going to happen or is it still too soon?

I wouldn't call this until:

A ) All the players are fully ashore (12Z tomorrow).

B ) The EC comes into better agreement with the other globals, or vice versa.

Right now its the EC (usually our best) versus all the other globals. Which to me means that either could be right. The EC is good, but not foolproof... it does have errors.

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It's out. It always comes out this early. Next frame is 120, so can't see in between:

Can't post it from my phone. It's definitely out though.

No, I saw the link before you edited. The timestamp is right. Can you send me the original link when you get a chance? That's a full hour before I usually see the UKM at the ewall or FSU.

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