Jump to content

  • Member Statistics

    17,586
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    LopezElliana
    Newest Member
    LopezElliana
    Joined

July Doldrums - Summer in full effect Pattern and Model Discussion

Baroclinic Zone

By Baroclinic Zone,
in New England

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Typhoon Tip

Typhoon Tip

Posted
Posted

Yeah no 90 for Logan today...

I thought it possible yesterday when I posted about the late wind shift, but... we are getting south coastal contamination/marine from that source that I wasn't anticipating. The best Logan is likely to muster is whatever is lurking out around Brockton...  

Norwood is 90 though by finger nails ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Typhoon Tip

Typhoon Tip

Posted
Posted

I've been monitoring specifically the 850 mb temperature layout over eastern N/A over the last several cycles, and curiously...  as the 500 mb heights are ballooning into the ginormous sprawling postive anomaly, the 850s have been cooling by minute increments... At this point, about 19 C ...which is very warm for 40 N of course, is about all that's being contained in that mammoth ridge expression. There is a smattering right at 20 dappled on the map, but...  days ago, this was supposed to be four days of 23 to 25 and the contouring had it... 

This slowly transforming into a gutted ridge - weird.   The NAM actually tries to E door the coast on Wednesday when the ridge reaches it's greatest suppressive might... Seems to challenge fluid mechanics thinking some there...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Yea nothing nearby is close to that average, bogus

? 

I believe the BTV readings.  Maybe there's been a land use change or what not but the majority of it is the overnight lows.  And that's supported by what's been looked at as a nocturnal low level jet in southerly flow situations.  Last night while everyone else went calm, BTV actually increased in southerly wind through the night.  As the surface inversion develops elsewhere, the southerly flow gets enhanced between the Adirondacks and Spine of the Greens.  So you almost get into a WAA situation overnight fighting any nighttime cooling.  And it's really only on the VT side of the lake.  Would be cool to model, a narrow ribbon of southerly winds moving through all night while it's calm just outside that river of moving air.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted

Congrats picnic tables.

Tied hottest temperature ever recorded on Mount Mansfield at 84F (62 years of records).  

Yesterday gets bumped to #3 at 83F.  

Thats an obscene air mass for 875mb.

The alpine vegetation crying for its mama.  Similar to Arctic vegetation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
weathafella

weathafella

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Congrats picnic tables.

Tied hottest temperature ever recorded on Mount Mansfield at 84F (62 years of records).  

Yesterday gets bumped to #3 at 83F.  

Thats an obscene air mass for 875mb.

Basically 29C.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

? 

I believe the BTV readings.  Maybe there's been a land use change or what not but the majority of it is the overnight lows.  And that's supported by what's been looked at as a nocturnal low level jet in southerly flow situations.  Last night while everyone else went calm, BTV actually increased in southerly wind through the night.  As the surface inversion develops elsewhere, the southerly flow gets enhanced between the Adirondacks and Spine of the Greens.  So you almost get into a WAA situation overnight fighting any nighttime cooling.  And it's really only on the VT side of the lake.  Would be cool to model, a narrow ribbon of southerly winds moving through all night while it's calm just outside that river of moving air.

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
weathafella

weathafella

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

I just happen to look at Quebec City   90/73 at 6pm.   Don't know how unusual it is to have a heat index this high but doubt there is much AC up there.  

Plenty of ac.   I was there last July and it was needed.   If I’m paying $200/night or more there had better be ac!

indoor spaces used ac in most of town.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dendrite

dendrite

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

Other sites were almost as hot and probably don’t have the open fields for good mixing like the ASOS has.

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=A3149&time=GMT

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

You seem to think I have an agenda or something.  BTV has been warm for a long time in south flow situations, but the observation isn't incorrect.  It just torches on southerly flow.  It does in the winter and summer.  

There were a bunch of lows near 80F in the area there last night.  Ferrisburgh with 79F and Williston AOT was 77F and that's at 800ft a few miles east, which is even more impressive to me as that's a cool spot locally. 

It was a very hot night and day.  Hard to doubt it when the mountain top in the same county is putting up all-time records too.  Like Dendrite said, Mansfield crushed its all time daily mean temp by 2.5F yesterday (probably destroyed that today too)... why can't BTV be high-end hot too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dendrite said:

Other sites were almost as hot and probably don’t have the open fields for good mixing like the ASOS has.

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=A3149&time=GMT

Yeah that's a low of 80F and a high of 98F in Burlington at that station.

Its legit, just a climo area that torches with south winds due to absolutely no radiational effects, wind increasing at night, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CT Rain

CT Rain

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah that's a low of 80F and a high of 98F in Burlington.

Its legit, just a climo area that torches with south winds due to absolutely no radiational effects, wind increasing at night, etc.

Also the WFO is literally a few hundred feet from the ASOS. If it was busted the ET would have fixed it months ago. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

You seem to think I have an agenda or something.  BTV has been warm for a long time in south flow situations, but the observation isn't incorrect.  It just torches on southerly flow.  It does in the winter and summer.  

There were a bunch of lows near 80F in the area there last night.  Ferrisburgh with 79F and Williston AOT was 77F and that's at 800ft a few miles east, which is even more impressive to me as that's a cool spot locally. 

It was a very hot night and day.  Hard to doubt it when the mountain top in the same county is putting up all-time records too.  Like Dendrite said, Mansfield crushed its all time daily mean temp by 2.5F yesterday (probably destroyed that today too)... why can't BTV be high-end hot too?

Wait you pointed it out many times this winter how warm it was compared to nearby sites. You actually said, I dont know whats wrong with that site. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Wait you pointed it out many times this winter how warm it was compared to nearby sites. You actually said, I dont know whats wrong with that site. 

Compared to MVL/MPV, certainly.  And the more you look into it the more it's just a climate oddity but it is real.  

But I've never seen it be out of whack with the similar open Champlain Valley sites.  It's not like everyone is 73F while they are 80F.

Like Dendrite posted, the nearby sites jive on the mesonet maps.  The more neighborhood type sites are upper 70s but anything open (like Field or lake) is still in the low 80s due to mixing.  Look at the sites on or near the lake still as high as 84F from the mixing.

IMG_0035.thumb.PNG.e6da3a8bc3b3315a0df10ca01755a45a.PNG

All you can say is Glad We Don't Live There... but the southerly flow torches are real.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Compared to MVL/MPV, certainly.  And the more you look into it the more it's just a climate oddity but it is real.  

But I've never seen it be out of whack with the similar open Champlain Valley sites.  It's not like everyone is 73F while they are 80F.

Like Dendrite posted, the nearby sites jive on the mesonet maps.  The more neighborhood type sites are upper 70s but anything open (like Field or lake) is still in the low 80s due to mixing.  Look at the sites on or near the lake still as high as 84F from the mixing.

IMG_0035.thumb.PNG.e6da3a8bc3b3315a0df10ca01755a45a.PNG

All you can say is Glad We Don't Live There... but the southerly flow torches are real.

Dont doubt it but when the world sees BTV broke 134 year old records there should be an asterisk 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

Posted
Posted

I remember we discussed a shift in BTV's anomalies a few years back. I'd have to go back and see exactly when it was but there was almost a step change and I think it showed up more in the min temps and not as much in the max temps (I.e. The airport wasn't radiating as much as it used to)...this can sometimes happen if they move the Asos or if there is any type of land use change on the airport or near it. I believe this happened in Seattle a few years back when a huge step change in temps occurred after they constructed a 3rd runway at the airport there. 

It could be coincidence too at BTV...but it always looks funny when literally every other first order station is putting up '81-'10 reference anomalies that are like 2F colder than BTV. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CapturedNature

CapturedNature

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

I remember we discussed a shift in BTV's anomalies a few years back. I'd have to go back and see exactly when it was but there was almost a step change and I think it showed up more in the min temps and not as much in the max temps (I.e. The airport wasn't radiating as much as it used to)...this can sometimes happen if they move the Asos or if there is any type of land use change on the airport or near it. I believe this happened in Seattle a few years back when a huge step change in temps occurred after they constructed a 3rd runway at the airport there. 

It could be coincidence too at BTV...but it always looks funny when literally every other first order station is putting up '81-'10 reference anomalies that are like 2F colder than BTV. 

This happened at BDL as well at some point in the early 90s and I think ORH's sensors were re-located at some point and there was a subtle change there as well.  Microclimatology always amazed me and the differences you can sometimes get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...