9th annual Lawn Thread 2018

[backedgeapproaching]

1 minute ago, dendrite said:

It goes dormant for me in October and doesn't really green up until May, but once it gets established it is thick and lush all summer. It's even plowing through the crabgrass and clover. When it's dormant it's very dead, but since we usually have snow cover most of the winter it doesn't really bother me. I just have to deal with seeing the brown in late fall and April.

I was just going to ask how long it stays green for---6 months? That is more than I would have thought for Zoysia in a northern state.

I could never have that for many reasons, but seems to work for you.

[dendrite]

13 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

I was just going to ask how long it stays green for---6 months? That is more than I would have thought for Zoysia in a northern state.

I could never have that for many reasons, but seems to work for you.

I just planted it in spots where the lawn continuously struggled. I can't remember offhand where I got my plugs from, but it may be an option for lavarock. Of course it isn't native and invasive so beware if you have neighbors.

https://www1.zoysiafarms.com/allabout.jsp

[CoastalWx]

We chestnut?

 

 

[dendrite]

Doesn't look like an american chestnut to me, but whatever it is, I remember seeing a lot of those on Rattlesnake Island back in the 90s.

 

Walnut maybe?

[CoastalWx]

7 hours ago, dendrite said:

Doesn't look like an american chestnut to me, but whatever it is, I remember seeing a lot of those on Rattlesnake Island back in the 90s.

 

Walnut maybe?

It's the only one on the block, but a nice looking tree. Unfortunately Nat Grid decided to cut some large branches away from the power lines, but very healthy. Never thought about walnut though.

[dendrite]

3 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

It's the only one on the block, but a nice looking tree. Unfortunately Nat Grid decided to cut some large branches away from the power lines, but very healthy. Never thought about walnut though.

Maybe tamarack would know. I know white walnut is native to NH. Could be some form of hickory too.

[tamarack]

58 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Maybe tamarack would know. I know white walnut is native to NH. Could be some form of hickory too.

Looks like hickory nuts, bark too, though not all that shaggy for shagbark hickory, the family member found farthest north and the only hickory native to Maine.  American chestnut hulls are armed with painfully sharp spines which tend to soften a bit when nuts ripen.  (And local squirrels have that softening timed to the minute.)

[dendrite]

2 hours ago, tamarack said:

Looks like hickory nuts, bark too, though not all that shaggy for shagbark hickory, the family member found farthest north and the only hickory native to Maine.  American chestnut hulls are armed with painfully sharp spines which tend to soften a bit when nuts ripen.  (And local squirrels have that softening timed to the minute.)

Now that I look at shagbark hickory pics, that's definitely what was on Rattlesnake. Those split hulls were littered all over the ground for much of our path to the top.

[CoastalWx]

So a hickory with those leaves? Never would have thought. 

[dendrite]

10 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

So a hickory with those leaves? Never would have thought. 

Now I want a few of these in the yard. Holy taproot on those things. Poor Lisa.

[wxeyeNH]

Not exactly a lawn post but frickin deer..

I didn't think my peach tree would bare fruit this year after that wicked cold spell in early January.  It did.  Had about  75 peaches on the tree.  Last week they were weighing down the tree and I just went to check as they should have been about ripe.  Not one peach.  Only pits on the ground.  I have watched the deer stand on their hind legs to get our apples but they sure stripped this tree clean.  Didn't leave even one on the upper branches.

[Lava Rock]

So we got one of two estimates to install retaining wall, backfill and repair remaining lawn damaged ares. See pic. To install 40' retaining wall using natural 3' high boulders, backfill with clay, sand, then loam, they want $4450. Seems high. This doesn't include adding any shrubs or plants in the area. To fix remaining lawn damaged areas outside of the backfilled area is another $3600. Last year, I got a quote from our excavator guy for $2800 to bring in 4" loam and cover existing grass. For another $1000, they would hydroseed. I was ready to spend ~$3500 max, but no way to afford $8000+.

 

[Great Snow 1717]

22 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

So we got one of two estimates to install retaining wall, backfill and repair remaining lawn damaged ares. See pic. To install 40' retaining wall using natural 3' high boulders, backfill with clay, sand, then loam, they want $4450. Seems high. This doesn't include adding any shrubs or plants in the area. To fix remaining lawn damaged areas outside of the backfilled area is another $3600. Last year, I got a quote from our excavator guy for $2800 to bring in 4" loam and cover existing grass. For another $1000, they would hydroseed. I was ready to spend ~$3500 max, but no way to afford $8000+.

 

Hi,

  Is the $2800 estimate for loam just for that area of your lawn? The area has potential to say the least. There is a lot that can be done with that area. Have you considered doing the project yourself? Home Depot and Lowes both sell plenty of items that would work in that area to make it look better. YouTube is a great resource for getting idea for home and garden projects.

[Baroclinic Zone]

1 hour ago, Lava Rock said:

So we got one of two estimates to install retaining wall, backfill and repair remaining lawn damaged ares. See pic. To install 40' retaining wall using natural 3' high boulders, backfill with clay, sand, then loam, they want $4450. Seems high. This doesn't include adding any shrubs or plants in the area. To fix remaining lawn damaged areas outside of the backfilled area is another $3600. Last year, I got a quote from our excavator guy for $2800 to bring in 4" loam and cover existing grass. For another $1000, they would hydroseed. I was ready to spend ~$3500 max, but no way to afford $8000+.

 

Did they break out labor & materials for the wall?  3' high boulders are not light.  That $4450 seems reasonable for a 40' rock wall.

The additional $3,600 seems steep. How large an area are we talking for that and how much loam (cubic yards) are they bringing in?  I know around here loam is $20/cuyd plus delivery.

[tamarack]

1 hour ago, Lava Rock said:

So we got one of two estimates to install retaining wall, backfill and repair remaining lawn damaged ares. See pic. To install 40' retaining wall using natural 3' high boulders, backfill with clay, sand, then loam, they want $4450. Seems high. This doesn't include adding any shrubs or plants in the area. To fix remaining lawn damaged areas outside of the backfilled area is another $3600. Last year, I got a quote from our excavator guy for $2800 to bring in 4" loam and cover existing grass. For another $1000, they would hydroseed. I was ready to spend ~$3500 max, but no way to afford $8000+.

 

If that backfill includes much of the ground around that oak, I fear you can kiss it goodbye, though if you really want to keep it, you could either exclude it from the fill or build a dry well around it.  Most trees have the vast majority of their fine roots, the water-nutrient gatherers, within the top 12" of soil, and they have a tough time if those roots are suddenly 2' or more underground.  (Not that anybody asked)

[Great Snow 1717]

4 minutes ago, tamarack said:

If that backfill includes much of the ground around that oak, I fear you can kiss it goodbye, though if you really want to keep it, you could either exclude it from the fill or build a dry well around it.  Most trees have the vast majority of their fine roots, the water-nutrient gatherers, within the top 12" of soil, and they have a tough time if those roots are suddenly 2' or more underground.  (Not that anybody asked)

That may possibly happen. I'd probably start by using a tiller to turn over the soil. And then add topsoil. And then overseed the area. Provided of course I wanted to have grass growing in that area. I'm not a big fan of hydroseeding. I know people who have hydroseeded their lawns and at first it looked great but over time(within a year) the lawns began to have issues

[Lava Rock]

2 hours ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

Hi,

  Is the $2800 estimate for loam just for that area of your lawn? The area has potential to say the least. There is a lot that can be done with that area. Have you considered doing the project yourself? Home Depot and Lowes both sell plenty of items that would work in that area to make it look better. YouTube is a great resource for getting idea for home and garden projects.

The $2800 which is straight up 4" loam and no wall would be for ~7000sqft, so the entire yard, not just around the oak. I probably could do the wall myself but limited time is part of problem, plus not 100% confident in doing it right with proper drainage, etc. What kind of "items" are you referring to?

1 hour ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Did they break out labor & materials for the wall?  3' high boulders are not light.  That $4450 seems reasonable for a 40' rock wall.

The additional $3,600 seems steep. How large an area are we talking for that and how much loam (cubic yards) are they bringing in?  I know around here loam is $20/cuyd plus delivery.

The $4450 was not broken down, but includes the wall and backfill. The $3600 is for 5800sqft and includes anywhere from 1-4" loam and then hydroseed.

51 minutes ago, tamarack said:

If that backfill includes much of the ground around that oak, I fear you can kiss it goodbye, though if you really want to keep it, you could either exclude it from the fill or build a dry well around it.  Most trees have the vast majority of their fine roots, the water-nutrient gatherers, within the top 12" of soil, and they have a tough time if those roots are suddenly 2' or more underground.  (Not that anybody asked)

Never even thougtht about the death of the oak with the backfill. A few trees have died, mostly pines around our propoerty line from too much backfill when we built the house. I think the thought is they would taper the depth of the loam from ~4" at the base of the oak to as much as 36" to the edge of the wall. Of course, at the wall, not all will be loam; only the top 4".

[Lava Rock]

48 minutes ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

That may possibly happen. I'd probably start by using a tiller to turn over the soil. And then add topsoil. And then overseed the area. Provided of course I wanted to have grass growing in that area. I'm not a big fan of hydroseeding. I know people who have hydroseeded their lawns and at first it looked great but over time(within a year) the lawns began to have issues

the tiller option was another consideration in combo with bringing in 4" loam. The landscape guys are pushing the rock wall because they believe that if we try and just put loam/grass around the oak, the grass will eventually die due to too much competition for nurtrients/water from the oak. The other concern is erosion again, althogh our lawn on the backside of house is much steeper and once the grass took hold there, there were never any erosion issues. I think most of it is due to the oak. Thought about cutting the oak down, but it's a nice tree, adds some character to the property and a bit of shade.

[Baroclinic Zone]

Give the area you just said, that $3600 is not unreasonable either.  If you were referring to just the area in the photo, I'd tell them to pound sand.

[dryslot]

3 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

So we got one of two estimates to install retaining wall, backfill and repair remaining lawn damaged ares. See pic. To install 40' retaining wall using natural 3' high boulders, backfill with clay, sand, then loam, they want $4450. Seems high. This doesn't include adding any shrubs or plants in the area. To fix remaining lawn damaged areas outside of the backfilled area is another $3600. Last year, I got a quote from our excavator guy for $2800 to bring in 4" loam and cover existing grass. For another $1000, they would hydroseed. I was ready to spend ~$3500 max, but no way to afford $8000+.

 

That looks to be a great spot to park the sled trailer on, Low cost too.....................

[dendrite]

Maybe install an ASOS? They like to install them over sand and gravel.

[tamarack]

29 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Maybe install an ASOS? They like to install them over sand and gravel.

And under that tree, imagine the dews!

[dendrite]

32 minutes ago, tamarack said:

And under that tree, imagine the dews!

He doesn’t need a rain gauge either. Money saved.

[dendrite]

Zoysia update. It needs to be cut, but it is thick, lush, and growing like crazy. That corner of the house faces SW and bakes. Some before and current pics. BTW, I watered the plugs that first year, but that’s it. No fertilizer, lime, or anything.

6/19/16 - Plugs planted

10/22/16...after a partial warm season. Still green while approaching Halloween.

10 minutes ago...thick and lush

[Ginx snewx]

3 hours ago, tamarack said:

If that backfill includes much of the ground around that oak, I fear you can kiss it goodbye, though if you really want to keep it, you could either exclude it from the fill or build a dry well around it.  Most trees have the vast majority of their fine roots, the water-nutrient gatherers, within the top 12" of soil, and they have a tough time if those roots are suddenly 2' or more underground.  (Not that anybody asked)

You can see the outline of the Oak fine roots clearly. if it were me I would drop the Oak, til the crap out of it, mix in loam and seed water and hope for the best, all for under a grand

[Lava Rock]

What about skipping the backfill, just putting in some boulders then planting a bunch of shrubs, blueberry bushes, then put down some mulch. Good or bad?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Great Snow 1717]

20 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

the tiller option was another consideration in combo with bringing in 4" loam. The landscape guys are pushing the rock wall because they believe that if we try and just put loam/grass around the oak, the grass will eventually die due to too much competition for nurtrients/water from the oak. The other concern is erosion again, althogh our lawn on the backside of house is much steeper and once the grass took hold there, there were never any erosion issues. I think most of it is due to the oak. Thought about cutting the oak down, but it's a nice tree, adds some character to the property and a bit of shade.

I'd keep the tree. Have you consider using a combination of plants that do not require a lot of water along with rocks and/or mulch. They are pushing the wall because they are going to make a boatload of money off of the wall.  Home Depot sells outdoor wall kits. I'm not sure if they would work for you in that area. There is a lot you can do that will not set you back thousands. Have fun and experiment a bit. 

[Great Snow 1717]

21 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

The $2800 which is straight up 4" loam and no wall would be for ~7000sqft, so the entire yard, not just around the oak. I probably could do the wall myself but limited time is part of problem, plus not 100% confident in doing it right with proper drainage, etc. What kind of "items" are you referring to?

The $4450 was not broken down, but includes the wall and backfill. The $3600 is for 5800sqft and includes anywhere from 1-4" loam and then hydroseed.

Never even thougtht about the death of the oak with the backfill. A few trees have died, mostly pines around our propoerty line from too much backfill when we built the house. I think the thought is they would taper the depth of the loam from ~4" at the base of the oak to as much as 36" to the edge of the wall. Of course, at the wall, not all will be loam; only the top 4".

A master craftsman is the best bet to do that type of wall BUT the trick is finding one. Near impossible now days in the world of quick buck contractors. I was referring to "items" such as different types of plants/flowers, rocks, and wall kits. YouTube is a great source for project ideas.

[Lava Rock]

4 minutes ago, Great Snow 1717 said:

I'd keep the tree. Have you consider using a combination of plants that do not require a lot of water along with rocks and/or mulch. They are pushing the wall because they are going to make a boatload of money off of the wall.  Home Depot sells outdoor wall kits. I'm not sure if they would work for you in that area. There is a lot you can do that will not set you back thousands. Have fun and experiment a bit. 

see my reply above yours. I was thinking of just what you suggested. Only issue might be being able to dig planting holes deep enough (typically 12-16") to drop new plants into. The granite isn't too far beneath the grass.

[Great Snow 1717]

1 minute ago, Lava Rock said:

see my reply above yours. I was thinking of just what you suggested. Only issue might be being able to dig planting holes deep enough (typically 12-16") to drop new plants into. The granite isn't too far beneath the grass.

Or you can plant different flowers each year to change the look of it. Another idea is to make it a "seasonal" area. In other words during the fall have it have a fall theme, during Christmas have it be xmas theme. Actually the area looks like an ideal spot to have a "haunted graveyard" during the Halloween season.