March 20th-22nd Not So Suppressed Storm Obs

[RU848789]

22 minutes ago, JerseyWx said:

I guess the only way to account for compaction when dealing with an event that is a mixed bag would be to measure right before it changed p-types and then clear the board.  So if you got 5" of pure snow and then it transitioned to rain, you'd record the 5", wipe the board, and then let it rain all it wants.  Then if it went back to snow and began to accumulate again, you'd add that new amount, say 5", to the previous 5" that fell earlier, which gives you a storm total of 10".

Honestly, it's a confusing situation, and perhaps someone has the correct method.

That's basically what I think should be done, but I get it's more complicated and relies on someone actually being there to make those judgments, whereas simply measuring total snowfall after 24 hours or at the end of the event is simpler.  I guess there's no simple answer to this...

[JerseyWx]

36 minutes ago, EasternLI said:

That's what I don't get. If we were to send 2 groups out to collect data in the name of science, you don't have one group collect it one way and another group another way. Unless of course the difference is what is being studied, but it isn't in this case.

I'd like to see an experiment, controlled for variables of course, where each method is used and we could see what the difference is (I still say it inflates).  Personally, I feel that the NWS should make it the standard method for everyone to measure at the end of the event.

[EasternLI]

34 minutes ago, JerseyWx said:

I'd like to see an experiment, controlled for variables of course, where each method is used and we could see what the difference is (I still say it inflates).  Personally, I feel that the NWS should make it the standard method for everyone to measure at the end of the event.

Oh I'm sure the 6 hour method inflates to some degree, that way is eliminating at least some compaction. I personally use the max depth of the event like they have laid out in the guidelines. I'd just like to see guidelines be the same for all locations. It doesn't look like that's the case right now. That bothers me. Especially after the first sentence in the preface emphasizes importance of consistency and accuracy.

[JerseyWx]

13 minutes ago, EasternLI said:

Oh I'm sure the 6 hour method inflates to some degree, that way is eliminating at least some compaction. I personally use the max depth of the event like they have laid out in the guidelines. I'd just like to see guidelines be the same for all locations. It doesn't look like that's the case right now. That bothers me. Especially after the first sentence in the preface emphasizes importance of consistency and accuracy.

I do the same.  But yeah, I'm all for standardizing measurements.  It's one less thing to worry about.

[donsutherland1]

Four final photos from the recent snowstorm:

[weatherpruf]

13 hours ago, Brasiluvsnow said:

PRUF as much as that sounds good and I think we are all ready for Spring even myself who loves the snow and am done with winter. I believe it is far from the truth because had this storm really busted I have little doubt that those same milk carton people would have been fixtures on this site yesterday and today. I am not saying that you or anyone else did not do well with this storm or another , what I am saying is the people who blew this and were ragging and who posted a lot on Wednesday are are currently AWOL and should at least have the stones to admit they were wrong and give props to the many not just the two I mentioned that nailed this storm,,,,,but I say good luck with that. Happy weekend all !

All of these storms busted for some of us and not others, can't blame people for looking out the window and seeing nothing much going on for hours and assuming it was another bust. I was quite surprised to get nearly a foot of snow in a few hours after only managing 2 inches all day. Most of it is gone already, but that's often the case with these late storms anyway. Looked wonderful watching at the bay during the height of the storm.

[Paragon]

On 3/23/2018 at 1:50 AM, ncforecaster89 said:

Note about the snowfall at KISP.  According to the "NOWData" going back to 1964, the 18.4" event total puts this storm at #1 of all March snow storms.

The 14" total on the 21st ranks as #2 for a single day snowfall in March (behind the 15" of 3/22/1967), and at #3 for all events occuring in March or later (also behind the 16" of 4/6/1982).  

Truly an historic and rare event for central Long Island; relative to March snowfall!       

Wow, I didn't know Islip recorded 16" on 4/6/82- the NYC airports recorded around 8" each.  Was the 16" the highest recorded on Long Island for that storm?

[Paragon]

On 3/23/2018 at 2:06 PM, RU848789 said:

Here's the NWS Eastern Region map, which is pretty similar.  Is there anyone on this planet who can show me where the source map is on the Eastern Region or NWS webpage?  I see this map get generated for various storms and posted by people, yet it's apparently unfindable from the site or google (I get the graphic from google, but not where the graphic is located).  Also, Mt. Holly has the map below, but Upton doesn't appear to have a map on their winter weather page, yet clearly Upton's data are in this Eastern Region page.  It's all a bit annoying. 

I like the 12-18 on that map a lot better than the 6-8 on the other map which was wrong for SW Nassau.

[Paragon]

On 3/22/2018 at 4:44 PM, nzucker said:

Big difference between early March and late March. It's common to have snowpack in the region through around March 10th, then it gets progressively more difficult as average highs approach 50F near the equinox.

The March 2004 equinox storm melted in one day. We had 8" around dawn in Dobbs Ferry, then by dusk it was all gone.

I wish you had been around to witness the April 1982 behemoth, it might just be my 8 year old memories but I distinctly remember that snow sticking around for a week, and another snowstorm at the end of the week to boot.  Heck, the April 2003 snowstorm kept snow on the ground for 4 days too (three straight days in the 30s after that.)

[Paragon]

On 3/22/2018 at 4:42 PM, jm1220 said:

I think you’re supposed to measure once the snow ends, and it’s one measurement on a board per 24 hours. When did it end? Around 3-4am? I measured about 11” as well early this morning around 6:45, but I have no idea of what compacted before then. It also wasn’t on a board. Crazy-it looks nothing like that much fell now with how much it’s melting. 

JM was 11" your total snowfall? I figured you had some more snow after 7 am since it kept snowing until about 10 AM here.

[ncforecaster89]

27 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Wow, I didn't know Islip recorded 16" on 4/6/82- the NYC airports recorded around 8" each.  Was the 16" the highest recorded on Long Island for that storm?

Hi Paragon!  From all the data I've seen, it appears the 16" in KISP is the largest recorded amt on Long island.  Of course, there may have been higher unofficial totals, but the NESIS map has the highest amount centered on Islip.

As you noted, both LaGuardia & Kennedy recorded 8.2" and 8.0", respectively.   NYC central park tallied 9.6", itself...with Newark coming in above 13".    

http://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=okx

[gravitylover]

4 hours ago, Paragon said:

I wish you had been around to witness the April 1982 behemoth, it might just be my 8 year old memories but I distinctly remember that snow sticking around for a week, and another snowstorm at the end of the week to boot.  Heck, the April 2003 snowstorm kept snow on the ground for 4 days too (three straight days in the 30s after that.)

 

4 hours ago, Paragon said:

Wow, I didn't know Islip recorded 16" on 4/6/82- the NYC airports recorded around 8" each.  Was the 16" the highest recorded on Long Island for that storm?

Yeah that storm was impressive for sure. I remember having a couple of days off from school, getting a terrible sunburn from playing outside for hours, nearly wrecking my eyes from not wearing sunglasses and my dad being pissed at missing a day of work because the street was impassable. We didn't even see a plow for two days on my dead end street in Oceanside. 

[Paragon]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:07 AM, ncforecaster89 said:

Hi Paragon!  From all the data I've seen, it appears the 16" in KISP is the largest recorded amt on Long island.  Of course, there may have been higher unofficial totals, but the NESIS map has the highest amount centered on Islip.

As you noted, both LaGuardia & Kennedy recorded 8.2" and 8.0", respectively.   NYC central park tallied 9.6", itself...with Newark coming in above 13".    

http://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=okx

Thanks for digging that up!  I'm also interested in the storm that occurred a week after that one.  I know we were supposed to get 3-6 inches from it but the storm ended up being a bit further out to sea, but we did get 1" of snow at JFK in the day time in mid April, which is no small feat!  Do you know if Islip might have gotten more than that?  The storm would have been around the 10th.

[Paragon]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:13 AM, gravitylover said:

 

Yeah that storm was impressive for sure. I remember having a couple of days off from school, getting a terrible sunburn from playing outside for hours, nearly wrecking my eyes from not wearing sunglasses and my dad being pissed at missing a day of work because the street was impassable. We didn't even see a plow for two days on my dead end street in Oceanside. 

How much snow would you say you got at Oceanside?  Do you remember the snow event that happened a week after the April Blizzard too?  I was living in Brooklyn back then (moved to Long Island for the following winter and experienced the Great Blizzard of 1983 there.)

 

[ncforecaster89]

11 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Thanks for digging that up!  I'm also interested in the storm that occurred a week after that one.  I know we were supposed to get 3-6 inches from it but the storm ended up being a bit further out to sea, but we did get 1" of snow at JFK in the day time in mid April, which is no small feat!  Do you know if Islip might have gotten more than that?  The storm would have been around the 10th.

My pleasure!  Islip only recorded a Trace on 4/09/1982.  The only other day with measurable snow (in the month) was a T on 4/04...preceding the 4/6 event. 

[Paragon]

4 minutes ago, ncforecaster89 said:

My pleasure!  Islip only recorded a Trace on 4/09/1982.  The only other day with measurable snow (in the month) was a T on 4/04...preceding the 4/6 event. 

That was quite the wintry week, I don't know if you can even go back to the 1800s and find a week that cold so late in the season.  Though I remember you posted numbers from April 1876 when NYC received 10+ inches of snow somewhere around the 13-15th of April.  I'm not sure if we'll see anything like that again in our lifetime (though some would argue that the late October 2011 snowstorm was just as rare, since NYC had never received an inch of snow in October before that event and was in a Winter Storm Warning and received 3" while 6" fell as close as The Bronx.)

 

[gravitylover]

4 hours ago, Paragon said:

How much snow would you say you got at Oceanside?  Do you remember the snow event that happened a week after the April Blizzard too?  I was living in Brooklyn back then (moved to Long Island for the following winter and experienced the Great Blizzard of 1983 there.)

 

I want to say it was 9-10" and I don't remember there being more than maybe an inch after that. I do remember that being the most durable April snow ever though. If I'm not mistaken it was on the ground for about 5 days.

[Paragon]

On 3/31/2018 at 7:36 AM, gravitylover said:

I want to say it was 9-10" and I don't remember there being more than maybe an inch after that. I do remember that being the most durable April snow ever though. If I'm not mistaken it was on the ground for about 5 days.

That whole week was so cold- I have to think that more than just the Yankee home opener got snowed out.  Were we in the teens the morning after the snow fell?