March 20th-22nd Not So Suppressed Storm Obs

[RU848789]

17 hours ago, RU848789 said:

We're at 11.25" as of 12:45 am, after my 3rd and final shovel, and still 31F.  Went from moderate to light, non-accumulating snow around 12:30 am, so unless we get some backbuilding, I think that's my final number, just short of my 12" prediction yesterday afternoon.  Will be awake for another hour or so and will watch the radar and remeasure if needed.  If not, wow, what an amazing freaking storm, especially for Spring!  Been a ton of fun tracking, watching, kvetching, whining, and celebrating this storm with all of you and, of course, being out in it to enjoy it - it never gets old, even though we do.  And remember, measure the snowfall at the end of the storm not tomorrow morning, as there is always some compaction (but luckily no melting tonight, which will limit compaction a bit).

Just getting around to adjusting this slightly.  Woke up and there was a 1/4" of pixie dust on my car and driveway early this morning, so my final number was 11.5".  Nice!

[weatherpruf]

10 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

Just getting around to adjusting this slightly.  Woke up and there was a 1/4" of pixie dust on my car and driveway early this morning, so my final number was 11.5".  Nice!

Finally! It seems everyone had at least one good storm this year. Just never got one that bowled over the whole region. Woodbridge TWP ranged from 10-11.9 IIRC. Cheesequake with over 12; probably the hills make a difference despite its proximity to the bay.

[doncat]

Probobly not, but hopefully a few more people learned not to call bust 6 hours before it even starts.

[weatherpruf]

1 hour ago, gravitylover said:

Yep negative here too. Tick season starts... now

Ticks have been active for a few weeks. Once temps hit 40 they are up and about. They just have a better chance of getting to you in the growing spring grasses. I've got some treated socks to try to defeat them this year during trout season.

[Eduardo]

Measured an average of 15.8" before the melting began this morning.  Snow came down at an incredible rate for a time last night. More than made up for the snizzlefest that dominated the day and, for me, moves this winter into Grade A territory.  Just a shade under 50" on the season, which is not to shabby here.

[ncforecaster89]

Left Central Park around 11 pm...with 7" on the ground.   Subsequently, drove E via Queensboro bridge and onto Long Island expressway.  From Queens onward, the snow rates continued to increase.   Traffic accidents and white-out conditions brought traffic to a halt on the expressway.   

Finally, I stopped to record the incredible conditions at a gas station parking lot in Hauppauge, NY...just N of Islip.   

Here's a very brief video of what I observed:

 

[ncforecaster89]

Note about the snowfall at KISP.  According to the "NOWData" going back to 1964, the 18.4" event total puts this storm at #1 of all March snow storms.

The 14" total on the 21st ranks as #2 for a single day snowfall in March (behind the 15" of 3/22/1967), and at #3 for all events occuring in March or later (also behind the 16" of 4/6/1982).  

Truly an historic and rare event for central Long Island; relative to March snowfall!       

[MJO812]

Alot of melting today

[MJO812]

7 hours ago, doncat said:

Probobly not, but hopefully a few more people learned not to call bust 6 hours before it even starts.

Happens with every storm by the same people

[Brasiluvsnow]

4 hours ago, Snow88 said:

Happens with every storm by the same people

There were definitely people calling this a bust , 88 you and a few others stuck to your guns and said this was coming, again props to you for never wavering . There are a few people that are currently on the back of milk containers because they are missing . I believe that Rjay even called 1 or 2 out late in the day hinting at this was not over yet and he would have won a few wagers. Im not sure where Ulstercounty has been but he has definitely been posting less , and that is surprising as he is usually all over these storms I hope all is well with that guy .

[weatherpruf]

15 minutes ago, Brasiluvsnow said:

There were definitely people calling this a bust , 88 you and a few others stuck to your guns and said this was coming, again props to you for never wavering . There are a few people that are currently on the back of milk containers because they are missing . I believe that Rjay even called 1 or 2 out late in the day hinting at this was not over yet and he would have won a few wagers. Im not sure where Ulstercounty has been but he has definitely been posting less , and that is surprising as he is usually all over these storms I hope all is well with that guy .

Likely people are moving towards an eye on spring; breaks are underway or coming up, Passover and Easter, spring cleaning, getting the fishing gear ready, planning the garden.....these are the things that make having four seasons interesting. I loved this storm but it has seemed like a long winter despite the dull Feb ( I did do ok in that mid Feb storm ), with the first snowfall coming in Dec this year. 

[Cfa]

9 hours ago, ncforecaster89 said:

Left Central Park around 11 pm...with 7" on the ground.   Subsequently, drove E via Queensboro bridge and onto Long Island expressway.  From Queens onward, the snow rates continued to increase.   Traffic accidents and white-out conditions brought traffic to a halt on the expressway.   

Finally, I stopped to record the incredible conditions at a gas station parking lot in Hauppauge, NY...just N of Islip.   

Here's a very brief video of what I observed:

 

Wow, I go to that gas station all the time. Never seen it look like that, honestly.

[Brasiluvsnow]

12 minutes ago, weatherpruf said:

Likely people are moving towards an eye on spring; breaks are underway or coming up, Passover and Easter, spring cleaning, getting the fishing gear ready, planning the garden.....these are the things that make having four seasons interesting. I loved this storm but it has seemed like a long winter despite the dull Feb ( I did do ok in that mid Feb storm ), with the first snowfall coming in Dec this year. 

PRUF as much as that sounds good and I think we are all ready for Spring even myself who loves the snow and am done with winter. I believe it is far from the truth because had this storm really busted I have little doubt that those same milk carton people would have been fixtures on this site yesterday and today. I am not saying that you or anyone else did not do well with this storm or another , what I am saying is the people who blew this and were ragging and who posted a lot on Wednesday are are currently AWOL and should at least have the stones to admit they were wrong and give props to the many not just the two I mentioned that nailed this storm,,,,,but I say good luck with that. Happy weekend all !

[Snowshack]

9 hours ago, ncforecaster89 said:

Left Central Park around 11 pm...with 7" on the ground.   Subsequently, drove E via Queensboro bridge and onto Long Island expressway.  From Queens onward, the snow rates continued to increase.   Traffic accidents and white-out conditions brought traffic to a halt on the expressway.   

Finally, I stopped to record the incredible conditions at a gas station parking lot in Hauppauge, NY...just N of Islip.   

Here's a very brief video of what I observed:

 

Nice video.   Love times like that and looking at them memorialized helps me get through the summer!

[Capt. Adam]

Maybe not the 12"-20" from DC to NYC some models predicted, but the widespread 6"-12" with locally higher amounts certainly came to fruition.  Great storm for anytime, exceptional storm for March and for those that got in the band with great rates from Suffolk down into Monmouth and Ocean counties.  Eastern PA did well early. 

 

[RU848789]

4 hours ago, Capt. Adam said:

Maybe not the 12"-20" from DC to NYC some models predicted, but the widespread 6"-12" with locally higher amounts certainly came to fruition.  Great storm for anytime, exceptional storm for March and for those that got in the band with great rates from Suffolk down into Monmouth and Ocean counties.  Eastern PA did well early. 

 

Here's the NWS Eastern Region map, which is pretty similar.  Is there anyone on this planet who can show me where the source map is on the Eastern Region or NWS webpage?  I see this map get generated for various storms and posted by people, yet it's apparently unfindable from the site or google (I get the graphic from google, but not where the graphic is located).  Also, Mt. Holly has the map below, but Upton doesn't appear to have a map on their winter weather page, yet clearly Upton's data are in this Eastern Region page.  It's all a bit annoying. 

[bluewave]

31 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

Here's the NWS Eastern Region map, which is pretty similar.  Is there anyone on this planet who can show me where the source map is on the Eastern Region or NWS webpage?  I see this map get generated for various storms and posted by people, yet it's apparently unfindable from the site or google (I get the graphic from google, but not where the graphic is located).  Also, Mt. Holly has the map below, but Upton doesn't appear to have a map on their winter weather page, yet clearly Upton's data are in this Eastern Region page.  It's all a bit annoying. 

Someone else asked the same question on twitter.

Unfortunately, these are generated on an experimental graphics server that is on the internal NWS network. I cannot access it from outside the office. You can try the NWS Enhanced Data Display (EDD) preview.weather.gov/edd/ The display is pretty flexible/customizable.

12:54 PM - 20 Mar 2018

[IrishRob17]

21 hours ago, SnowGoose69 said:

I had no idea they changed the rules on that.  I thought you were supposed to clear the board every 6 hours.  I always wonder what airports do with those hourly measurements.  I assume measure in a different place because I’ve seen SNINCR 2/5 one hour then next hour I see SNINCR 2/6 so they must be measuring the total on the ground in a different spot (I would hope),

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf

[sn0w]

26 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf

Bothers me that clear typos can make it out to be published on official docs...literally one proof read should find this (see yellow highlight)...it would really bother me if that signature below was mine, but that's just me...

Cue grammar police, stickler, who cares....yada yada yada

 

[IrishRob17]

2 minutes ago, sn0w said:

Bothers me that clear typos can make it out to be published on official docs...literally one proof read should find this (see yellow highlight)...it would really bother me if that signature below was mine, but that's just me...

Cue grammar police, stickler, who cares....yada yada yada

 

Your right...

[sn0w]

17 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

Your right...

I see what you did their....lol

[RU848789]

31 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf

I find those guidelines to be a bit confusing at times.  First off they say that "if required to take observations every 6 hours" (for contract employees) you can clear the board at those times.  That, to me, implies it should be ok for Joe Q. Public to do the same (if it's good enough for the NWS/FAA, why not everyone).   

Second, they talk about measuring the max snowfall at the end of the storm, where possible, prior to melting and compaction Per their example: "Snow begins to fall at 10:00 a.m., accumulates to 4.2 inches by 3:00 p.m. and then stops. Ideally, this is when you should measure the snow. The snow begins melting and settling such that by your observation the next morning you only have 2.6 inches of snow on your snow board. The correct number to report for your 24-hour snowfall is 4.2 inches - the accumulation prior to melting and settling." 

That makes sense, but there's no allowance for melting/compaction that occur in a snow to rain/sleet to snow scenario, like we had on 3/7, where got about 3.5" of snow, then a bunch of sleet and rain, which compacted the snow to 2" in depth; it then changed back to heavy snow and the final depth was 8.5" (with 6.5" of new snow on top), but IMO 10" of snow accumulated in two parts (3.5" and 6.5").  If the event had ended after 3.5" of snow and just rain fell afterwards, you'd get to count the 3.5", but the fact that the storm didn't end and changed to  means you can't count that the 3.5" as part 1.  Maybe this is all too picky, but wondering what others think.  

[JerseyWx]

21 hours ago, SnowGoose69 said:

I had no idea they changed the rules on that.  I thought you were supposed to clear the board every 6 hours.  I always wonder what airports do with those hourly measurements.  I assume measure in a different place because I’ve seen SNINCR 2/5 one hour then next hour I see SNINCR 2/6 so they must be measuring the total on the ground in a different spot (I would hope),

Yep, and it's for the better IMO.  Measuring every six hours just isn't natural to me, and it inflates totals.  As for the hourly measurements, I guess it's just for archives and so they have a concrete figure regarding "inch per hour" rates.

[RU848789]

1 hour ago, bluewave said:

Someone else asked the same question on twitter.

Unfortunately, these are generated on an experimental graphics server that is on the internal NWS network. I cannot access it from outside the office. You can try the NWS Enhanced Data Display (EDD) preview.weather.gov/edd/ The display is pretty flexible/customizable.

12:54 PM - 20 Mar 2018

Thanks, but I've never been able to figure out how to make a snowfall map from that site and frankly, I shouldn't have to.  The NWS ought to simply provide the map in some easy to find location on each CWAs winter page and also on the Eastern Region page.  

[IrishRob17]

14 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

I find those guidelines to be a bit confusing at times.  First off they say that "if required to take observations every 6 hours" (for contract employees) you can clear the board at those times.  That, to me, implies it should be ok for Joe Q. Public to do the same (if it's good enough for the NWS/FAA, why not everyone).   

Second, they talk about measuring the max snowfall at the end of the storm, where possible, prior to melting and compaction Per their example: "Snow begins to fall at 10:00 a.m., accumulates to 4.2 inches by 3:00 p.m. and then stops. Ideally, this is when you should measure the snow. The snow begins melting and settling such that by your observation the next morning you only have 2.6 inches of snow on your snow board. The correct number to report for your 24-hour snowfall is 4.2 inches - the accumulation prior to melting and settling." 

That makes sense, but there's no allowance for melting/compaction that occur in a snow to rain/sleet to snow scenario, like we had on 3/7, where got about 3.5" of snow, then a bunch of sleet and rain, which compacted the snow to 2" in depth; it then changed back to heavy snow and the final depth was 8.5" (with 6.5" of new snow on top), but IMO 10" of snow accumulated in two parts (3.5" and 6.5").  If the event had ended after 3.5" of snow and just rain fell afterwards, you'd get to count the 3.5", but the fact that the storm didn't end and changed to  means you can't count that the 3.5" as part 1.  Maybe this is all too picky, but wondering what others think.  

There's no lack of confusion when it comes to these rules, that's for sure, mainly because they brought in he 6 hour clearing rule and then did away with it IMO

[EasternLI]

12 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

I find those guidelines to be a bit confusing at times.  First off they say that "if required to take observations every 6 hours" (for contract employees) you can clear the board at those times.  That, to me, implies it should be ok for Joe Q. Public to do the same (if it's good enough for the NWS/FAA, why not everyone).   

It doesn't make sense to me. NWS/FAA clear a board every 6 hrs. Yet everyone else isn't supposed to do that because it might inflate totals? How is that logical?

3 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

There's no lack of confusion when it comes to these rules, that's for sure, mainly because they brought in he 6 hour clearing rule and then did away with it IMO

It sounds like the airports still do it that way, though?

[JerseyWx]

14 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

I find those guidelines to be a bit confusing at times.  First off they say that "if required to take observations every 6 hours" (for contract employees) you can clear the board at those times.  That, to me, implies it should be ok for Joe Q. Public to do the same (if it's good enough for the NWS/FAA, why not everyone).   

Second, they talk about measuring the max snowfall at the end of the storm, where possible, prior to melting and compaction Per their example: "Snow begins to fall at 10:00 a.m., accumulates to 4.2 inches by 3:00 p.m. and then stops. Ideally, this is when you should measure the snow. The snow begins melting and settling such that by your observation the next morning you only have 2.6 inches of snow on your snow board. The correct number to report for your 24-hour snowfall is 4.2 inches - the accumulation prior to melting and settling." 

That makes sense, but there's no allowance for melting/compaction that occur in a snow to rain/sleet to snow scenario, like we had on 3/7, where got about 3.5" of snow, then a bunch of sleet and rain, which compacted the snow to 2" in depth; it then changed back to heavy snow and the final depth was 8.5" (with 6.5" of new snow on top), but IMO 10" of snow accumulated in two parts (3.5" and 6.5").  If the event had ended after 3.5" of snow and just rain fell afterwards, you'd get to count the 3.5", but the fact that the storm didn't end and changed to  means you can't count that the 3.5" as part 1.  Maybe this is all too picky, but wondering what others think.  

I guess the only way to account for compaction when dealing with an event that is a mixed bag would be to measure right before it changed p-types and then clear the board.  So if you got 5" of pure snow and then it transitioned to rain, you'd record the 5", wipe the board, and then let it rain all it wants.  Then if it went back to snow and began to accumulate again, you'd add that new amount, say 5", to the previous 5" that fell earlier, which gives you a storm total of 10".

Honestly, it's a confusing situation, and perhaps someone has the correct method.

[IrishRob17]

3 minutes ago, EasternLI said:

It doesn't make sense to me. NWS/FAA clear a board every 6 hrs. Yet everyone else isn't supposed to do that because it might inflate totals? How is that logical?

It sounds like the airports still do it that way, though?

I believe so, I don't know who the NWS asks to do the 6 hour measurements for sure. 

[bluewave]

22 minutes ago, RU848789 said:

Thanks, but I've never been able to figure out how to make a snowfall map from that site and frankly, I shouldn't have to.  The NWS ought to simply provide the map in some easy to find location on each CWAs winter page and also on the Eastern Region page.  

They keep some of their stuff on internal systems. I wish they made the Euro MOS available to the pubic. As far as I know, it's only available on the NWS AWIPS system. That may be an agreement with ECMWF not to make available free of charge.

[EasternLI]

5 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

I believe so, I don't know who the NWS asks to do the 6 hour measurements for sure. 

That's what I don't get. If we were to send 2 groups out to collect data in the name of science, you don't have one group collect it one way and another group another way. Unless of course the difference is what is being studied, but it isn't in this case.