Public Service Announcement - Please Read

[SteveVa]

2 hours ago, iFred said:

I find it irritatingly interesting that there seems to be a high tolerance for weenie whining and trolling from a couple members, maybe for comedic relief for a few long timers at the expense of everyone else.

I kind of wish “Storm Mode” existed for the mid and long range discussions on a seasonal basis.

Completely agree. And it's not just in the MA forum where long timers "get away" with it. Most of the time I just lurk around other subforums to find interesting information or read quality discussions, but sometimes I have to sift through pages of whining or banter. 

I can deal with banter where it's not supposed to be because I usually find it funny or I'm guilty of it myself. What bothers me is the double standard of how some members are allowed to endlessly whine or post one liners that contribute nothing to the discussion without repercussions. 

[psuhoffman]

I suggested in the discussion thread that perhaps we start a "analysis only" thread.  Strict enforcement of nonsense.  Kind of like a permanent storm mode thread.  We would only need one thread because once a threat is inside 72 hours and gets its own thread typically if its a significant event it gets storm mode designation anyways.  Plus huge shifts then are less common, and if something does get pulled out from under us at short leads then at least the complaining is more warranted.  But the constant complaining about long range stuff is annoying and pointless.  I do not mean negative analysis...if things legitimately look bad its fine to point it out and analyze why something is not favorable...but posts with nothing but whining about our lack of snow is not of value.   

What do others think?  We would also need buy in from the mods.  I understand why they are hesitant to delete stuff in regular threads.  But if we created a thread specifically for analysis and NOT that stuff would they be willing to be heavy handed in that one thread and discourage constant complaining? 

[Ji]

6 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

I suggested in the discussion thread that perhaps we start a "analysis only" thread.  Strict enforcement of nonsense.  Kind of like a permanent storm mode thread.  We would only need one thread because once a threat is inside 72 hours and gets its own thread typically if its a significant event it gets storm mode designation anyways.  Plus huge shifts then are less common, and if something does get pulled out from under us at short leads then at least the complaining is more warranted.  But the constant complaining about long range stuff is annoying and pointless.  I do not mean negative analysis...if things legitimately look bad its fine to point it out and analyze why something is not favorable...but posts with nothing but whining about our lack of snow is not of value.   

What do others think?  We would also need buy in from the mods.  I understand why they are hesitant to delete stuff in regular threads.  But if we created a thread specifically for analysis and NOT that stuff would they be willing to be heavy handed in that one thread and discourage constant complaining? 

absolutely not. Nobody wants to be in 3 different threads talking about the same thing. Plus it will get boring....and it will be a love fest of good model runs without anyone questioning anything. We(I) just need to post my panic in the panic threads and not so much in the long range thread. Problem is nobody reads the panic thread and i want someone to read my panic

[yoda]

5 minutes ago, Ji said:

absolutely not. Nobody wants to be in 3 different threads talking about the same thing. Plus it will get boring....and it will be a love fest of good model runs without anyone questioning anything. We(I) just need to post my panic in the panic threads and not so much in the long range thread. Problem is nobody reads the panic thread and i want someone to read my panic

Well that's too bad.  Post in the right thread

[psuhoffman]

16 minutes ago, Ji said:

absolutely not. Nobody wants to be in 3 different threads talking about the same thing. Plus it will get boring....and it will be a love fest of good model runs without anyone questioning anything. We(I) just need to post my panic in the panic threads and not so much in the long range thread. Problem is nobody reads the panic thread and i want someone to read my panic

Your like full tilt right now...  As I said before I sympathize I really do.  BUT.... it can't get out of hand and it spreads to others and then the thread becomes garbage.  And I am not afraid to post that something looks bad...WHEN IT LOOKS BAD.  Bob isnt either.  We just don't say its bad when its not just because were worried it might trend bad.  But I have even been accused of being too negative in the past.  Something happened where some posters just became so negative that even bringing up positive analysis sets them off on some rant about how it will never happen EVERY RUN.  and your other point is circular thinking...no one reads the panic thread because the people that should be posting in there ARE DOING IN IT THE MAIN THREAD...  you could also post it in banter since people do read that.  But filling up the discussion thread with "its never gonna snow, it sucks here" crap isn't doing any good for anything. 

[motsco]

since this is the “PSA”. whom every is tracking water into the panic room please clean it up.

[WEATHER53]

Dc has had some monster snows in last 20 yeara

It isn't a sh*t* area  for snow. It does not do well in ninas although it can be very cold

[North Balti Zen]

I don’t think it’s a good idea, PSU. But maybe Ji and a few others could relax a bit, in any event.

[psuhoffman]

1 minute ago, North Balti Zen said:

I don’t think it’s a good idea, PSU. But maybe Ji and a few others could relax a bit, in any event.

That would be ideal. But I don't think those doing it want to relax. They seem to need the emotional release of their meltdowns and as JI admitted need the audience. 

Let me be clear I don't really mind harmless negative comments or quick "ugh" type things. And I don't mind some complaints from time to time.  And occasional humor and jabs is cool. But when it gets so bad that legitimate objective analysis is attacked and discouraged by those that have some woe is me attitude and just want everyone to be equally defeated so they can vent and have a pity party it's gone too far. 

[RevWarReenactor]

7 hours ago, iFred said:

I find it irritatingly interesting that there seems to be a high tolerance for weenie whining and trolling from a couple members, maybe for comedic relief for a few long timers at the expense of everyone else.

I kind of wish “Storm Mode” existed for the mid and long range discussions on a seasonal basis.

I think the opposite.

Certain people are too positive and too sensitive and there is too much of a push to make this place a "no complaint zone" and people are getting way too offended over little stuff.

 

That being said I 100% support keeping it out of the model/discussion threads. But people should be able to vent about a crappy winter that we are having, and the "spin" the "oh it ain't so bad" is rather annoying for me. Because its bad. If it wasn't bad, that would be different. Even if we were staring down at a year that gave us climo, I'd say "oh stop complaining".

But when things are bad, it should be stated very plain, they are bad.

[psuhoffman]

5 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

I think the opposite.

Certain people are too positive and too sensitive and there is too much of a push to make this place a "no complaint zone" and people are getting way too offended over little stuff.

 

That being said I 100% support keeping it out of the model/discussion threads. But people should be able to vent about a crappy winter that we are having, and the "spin" the "oh it ain't so bad" is rather annoying for me. Because its bad. If it wasn't bad, that would be different. Even if we were staring down at a year that gave us climo, I'd say "oh stop complaining".

But when things are bad, it should be stated very plain, they are bad.

The only thing bad is your posts. You do this every winter almost. When you repeatedly label 3/4 winters bad then maybe that's just normal and you have to accept most years it doesn't snow that much here. And stop using our "average" snow as some expectation when the truth is the mean is from a few blockbuster winters then many years that are below that number. Our typical winter is under 20". Right now most are on pace to end up around 9-15". Guess what that's normal. That's 70% of winters.  And no one minds if they post crap in the banter or panic threads. It's the garbage in the discussion threads that is the issue. Finally even regular complaints is fine but some have decided that's not getting enough emotional release so now they have moved up to being hostile or snippy every time someone offers legit analysis of a positive prediction. They want us to just throw our hands up and complain along with them and give up.  It's not being sensitive. Some of us value substantive pattern analysis and don't want to hand to wade through 3 pages of pity party garbage nonsense to find good objective analysis. 

[gymengineer]

12 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

I think the opposite.

Certain people are too positive and too sensitive and there is too much of a push to make this place a "no complaint zone" and people are getting way too offended over little stuff.

 

That being said I 100% support keeping it out of the model/discussion threads. But people should be able to vent about a crappy winter that we are having, and the "spin" the "oh it ain't so bad" is rather annoying for me. Because its bad. If it wasn't bad, that would be different. Even if we were staring down at a year that gave us climo, I'd say "oh stop complaining".

But when things are bad, it should be stated very plain, they are bad.

Just put the two posters you named before you edited your post as being “too positive and too sensitive” on ignore. 

Then you’ll have the reading experience that you want. And the rest of us can have the threads that we prefer. 

[Cobalt]

16 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

I think the opposite.

Certain people are too positive and too sensitive and there is too much of a push to make this place a "no complaint zone" and people are getting way too offended over little stuff.

 

That being said I 100% support keeping it out of the model/discussion threads. But people should be able to vent about a crappy winter that we are having, and the "spin" the "oh it ain't so bad" is rather annoying for me. Because its bad. If it wasn't bad, that would be different. Even if we were staring down at a year that gave us climo, I'd say "oh stop complaining".

But when things are bad, it should be stated very plain, they are bad.

We have a room especially for that. A room, where you can panic

[gymengineer]

And I’ll just make it more general to everyone:  If reading model analysis makes you agitated or angry because of not enough snow up to this point, the onus is on *you* to put the people who are analyzing models too much for your taste on ignore. Easy solution. You won’t see all the analysis.

Leave the threads to the rest of us. Remove yourself from repeated negative emotional experiences. Win win for everyone. 

[psuhoffman]

6 minutes ago, gymengineer said:

And I’ll just make it more general to everyone:  If reading model analysis makes you agitated or angry because of not enough snow up to this point, the onus is on *you* to put the people who are analyzing models too much for your taste on ignore. Easy solution. You won’t see all the analysis.

Leave the threads to the rest of us. Remove yourself from repeated negative emotional experiences. Win win for everyone. 

They don't even have to go in that thread. It's amazing that some go into a thread specifically devoted to long range discussions and then complain when there is discussion about long range stuff. Umm hello Mcfly. It's beyond reason. It's almost as if they don't think it's worth while but instead of simply not participating they want to crap all over it for everyone else. 

[Interstate]

3 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

Your like full tilt right now...  As I said before I sympathize I really do.  BUT.... it can't get out of hand and it spreads to others and then the thread becomes garbage.  And I am not afraid to post that something looks bad...WHEN IT LOOKS BAD.  Bob isnt either.  We just don't say its bad when its not just because were worried it might trend bad.  But I have even been accused of being too negative in the past.  Something happened where some posters just became so negative that even bringing up positive analysis sets them off on some rant about how it will never happen EVERY RUN.  and your other point is circular thinking...no one reads the panic thread because the people that should be posting in there ARE DOING IN IT THE MAIN THREAD...  you could also post it in banter since people do read that.  But filling up the discussion thread with "its never gonna snow, it sucks here" crap isn't doing any good for anything. 

You should not have to worry about others if you see something bad.  Everything you say has analysis behind it... good or bad.  Most of us like to know what is on the table... good or bad.  I do find it tiring that the model thread gets junked up with banter posts.  There are two rooms for it... banter and panic.  I am not angel and have posted banter in the model room, but since the PSA, I have pretty much limited myself... everyone else also should.

[RevWarReenactor]

14 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

The only thing bad is your posts. You do this every winter almost. When you repeatedly label 3/4 winters bad then maybe that's just normal and you have to accept most years it doesn't snow that much here. And stop using our "average" snow as some expectation when the truth is the mean is from a few blockbuster winters then many years that are below that number. Our typical winter is under 20". Right now most are on pace to end up around 9-15". Guess what that's normal. That's 70% of winters.  And no one minds if they post crap in the banter or panic threads. It's the garbage in the discussion threads that is the issue. Finally even regular complaints is fine but some have decided that's not getting enough emotional release so now they have moved up to being hostile or snippy every time someone offers legit analysis of a positive prediction. They want us to just throw our hands up and complain along with them and give up.  It's not being sensitive. Some of us value substantive pattern analysis and don't want to hand to wade through 3 pages of pity party garbage nonsense to find good objective analysis. 

 

Like I said up front.....the banter/complaints should stay in the banter thread.

That being said, if a comment is made in the model thread "The 18Z GFS seems to have shifted to giving us less snow (analysis) we can never seem to win"

Do you seriously find that to be disrutpive to the eyes? Does that really need to be followed up with chants of, knowing real hardships, or getting a new hobby, or  pretending like a crappy snowless pattern is the norm.......

 

Cmon man.......its a bit much.

And I am not sure why you are singling me out, I barely post here and am nothing compared to some of the complainers of yesteryear. The culture of this board has changed. Thats for sure.

 

[RevWarReenactor]

Again, I am 100% opposed to taking a dump on legit model analysis and being disruptive and clutter up the model thread. But the response to Ji recent relatively benign comment gave me the giggles.

[psuhoffman]

4 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

 

Like I said up front.....the banter/complaints should stay in the banter thread.

That being said, if a comment is made in the model thread "The 18Z GFS seems to have shifted to giving us less snow (analysis) we can never seem to win"

Do you seriously find that to be disrutpive to the eyes? Does that really need to be followed up with chants of, knowing real hardships, or getting a new hobby, or  pretending like a crappy snowless pattern is the norm.......

 

Cmon man.......its a bit much.

And I am not sure why you are singling me out, I barely post here and am nothing compared to some of the complainers of yesteryear. The culture of this board has changed. Thats for sure.

 

1.  Your example is not what myself and bob and showmethesnow are talking about. It's legit to point out bad guidance. But some are attacking people for pointing out when the guidance is good because they think it will trend bad. Or just saying it won't snow even when the run was good. Analysis good or bad is fine. Just whining about it is not. 

2. Crappy snowless patterns are the norm. You seem to be in denial of climo. Especially if you label periods with lots of minor snows as snowless because that's what this year has been. The vast majority of our winter time is spent in patterns that don't yield significant snow. You should go look at how infrequent 4"+ and 6"+ snows around here really are. Then when your done crying reality might set in and you will stop acting like we're New Hampshire and it should snow all the time. 

3.  You haven't been one of the main culprits recently but many of your posts have been a bit off with our climo reality and you did decide to jump in on that side of this discussion. If my reaction was unfair sorry. 

[RevWarReenactor]

12 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

1.  Your example is not what myself and bob and showmethesnow are talking about. It's legit to point out bad guidance. But some are attacking people for pointing out when the guidance is good because they think it will trend bad. Or just saying it won't snow even when the run was good. Analysis good or bad is fine. Just whining about it is not. 

2. Crappy snowless patterns are the norm. You seem to be in denial of climo. Especially if you label periods with lots of minor snows as snowless because that's what this year has been. The vast majority of our winter time is spent in patterns that don't yield significant snow. You should go look at how infrequent 4"+ and 6"+ snows around here really are. Then when your done crying reality might set in and you will stop acting like we're New Hampshire and it should snow all the time. 

3.  You haven't been one of the main culprits recently but many of your posts have been a bit off with our climo reality and you did decide to jump in on that side of this discussion. If my reaction was unfair sorry. 

1) I 100% agree. No one should be trashing good analysis or saying “it won’t snow” to good runs. That stuff is garbage. If that is what you are objecting too. That’s fine. I apologize.

2) maybe I’m wrong. It just seems to me like a bad run of well below average snowfall and I could haven swore you came to that conclusion yourself awhile back looking at history.  I get it that this isn’t a snowy climate but it’s not Florida either. 

3) thanks....I have actually taken a break and have settled for the idea of one storm that gives us 4 inches.   I’ve shifted my focus off snow. But it feels like I’ve been doing this for a few years now, where looking for snow to fall here isn’t even a thing one should concern themselves with and that to me is odd in an area where climo is 20 inches a year.

[RevWarReenactor]

I also remember quite a few 4 or 5 or 6 inch storms..... far more than the 12+ which are few and far between.

now if you want to talk about the last 3 years sure.....1 blizzard. Nothing else.

[RevWarReenactor]

Final tidbit I met Paul kocin in feb 2009....a pro. He asked where I lived and I said central nj. He got very passionate and his exact words were “ man your area has been getting screwed out of snow!”

it shocked me that not only was he fully aware of it but that he somehow felt the pain. 

It stuck with me. Even Pro Mets usually love snow obsessively and are annoyed when it’s long stretches of below average

[psuhoffman]

6 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

1) I 100% agree. No one should be trashing good analysis or saying “it won’t snow” to good runs. That stuff is garbage. If that is what you are objecting too. That’s fine. I apologize.

2) maybe I’m wrong. It just seems to me like a bad run of well below average snowfall and I could haven swore you came to that conclusion yourself awhile back looking at history.  I get it that this isn’t a snowy climate but it’s not Florida either. 

3) thanks....I have actually taken a break and have settled for the idea of one storm that gives us 4 inches.   I’ve shifted my focus off snow. But it feels like I’ve been doing this for a few years now, where looking for snow to fall here isn’t even a thing one should concern themselves with and that to me is odd in an area where climo is 20 inches a year.

We had 3 consecutive above avg years 2014-2016 for the first time since the 1960s. It might have been one of the best 3 year runs ever. It included a truly epic wall to wall winter 2014. An epic back half winter in 2015 and a HECS in 2016. Taking the 3 years as a whole it had everything. Sustained cold periods. Frequent snows. A HECS. I'm not exaggerating to say a legit argument can be made it was the best 3 year run of our lifetimes if not ever. 

Last year sucked. That I'll give you. But it's just one year coming off 3 good ones. This year hasn't been good but it's not in epic fail territory. We have had snow and most are on pace to end up within where 70% of winters end up. 

If you came to consider what we experienced from 2014 to 2016 as normal then your gonna be disappointed a lot. So far this decade we are in pace to have more snow then the last 3 decades. We're ahead of where we should be. We have already had 4 above avg winters when typically we only get 3 a decade. So we're due for some crappers. 

If we strike out the rest of this winter then it's a bad year. But if at some point we get a 3-6 or 4-8" storm plus another 1-3" or two storms...then honestly this year was a normal winter and everything we could have hoped for in a Nina. Expectations seem too high for our climo reality imo. 

[psuhoffman]

12 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

I also remember quite a few 4 or 5 or 6 inch storms..... far more than the 12+ which are few and far between.

now if you want to talk about the last 3 years sure.....1 blizzard. Nothing else.

Ugh

just this December we had a 2-6" event across the region. 

In 2016 there was a 4-8" feb storm D.C. South and the northern 1/3 of the area had a 3-6" storm that month too. 

In 2015 there were several 4"+ events in feb and early march. 

Your memory seems to be missing recent good snows. 

[RDM]

4 hours ago, psuhoffman said:

I suggested in the discussion thread that perhaps we start a "analysis only" thread.  Strict enforcement of nonsense.  Kind of like a permanent storm mode thread.  We would only need one thread because once a threat is inside 72 hours and gets its own thread typically if its a significant event it gets storm mode designation anyways.  Plus huge shifts then are less common, and if something does get pulled out from under us at short leads then at least the complaining is more warranted.  But the constant complaining about long range stuff is annoying and pointless.  I do not mean negative analysis...if things legitimately look bad its fine to point it out and analyze why something is not favorable...but posts with nothing but whining about our lack of snow is not of value.   

What do others think?  We would also need buy in from the mods.  I understand why they are hesitant to delete stuff in regular threads.  But if we created a thread specifically for analysis and NOT that stuff would they be willing to be heavy handed in that one thread and discourage constant complaining? 

PSU - agree.  Read all the other comments to take other opinions into account, some to the contrary, and some that even got off into pseudo banter.  So much so that the point was at risk of being lost to tangents, which seems common these days in the main MR and LT thread.  One of the reasons it's a good idea is to just try something different.  Push the envelop and try something else.  Why not?  What's at play now is not working as designed.  At times the snide side-tracks and open ended comments without analysis are clogging the arteries of reasonable debate.

As is, there's recently been entirely too much off topic banter in the main thread.  At times seemingly a large potion of the comments merited being in banter, moved or just deleted outright.  Many of the opinions without backup logic or sourcing didn't help, nor did the ridicule, innuendos, and at times contempt for one another.  Not implying everyone must agree with anything or anyone at anytime.  This is weather and as much as the technology and experience aims to make the prognosis objective, the end result is still largely subjective.  But there's a way to challenge someone's analysis and/or offer a differing opinion that supports a healthy debate without going off the deep end.  And it's not hard to assume noble intent. 

Certainly not blaming or even pointing to the Mods here - they have a tough enough job as it is and shouldn't have to police the obvious.  Yet, the cynicism is at new levels this year, even compared to last "winter", albeit I use the term "winter" loosely for last year given how deplorable the 16/17 season was.  Most everyone should know what the protocol is for posting this or that where and the applicable protocol for taking it to banter, or just not "going there" when overtones are terse.  Yes, this year has not worked to our favor in the MA and nobody here wants snow more than me.  But some of the comments are getting out of hand and we should all be able to let it go and move on. 

Before someone slams me as being not worthy of such opinions given my relatively few posts...  My limited number of posts belies a constant presence here and on the forum before it back to 2002.  So I humbly believe I've earned some voice, with due deference to the powerhouses here with whom I am eternally grateful for the continuing and ongoing education.  I've accepted the fact that despite a passion for weather spanning 6 decades, I'm destined to be a lurker, follower and weenie wannabe here and I'm good with that - totally.  However, 15 years of tenure gives pause to some of the developing tendencies compared to the professional content of back then when even the banter was wholesome and rarely if ever contemptible.   

[North Balti Zen]

PSU and bob - the frustration on the board tracks with the two + years and running without an area-wide warning level event. The board was like this in February of 2013 too, the last time we went through a sizeable event dry spell. I guess I remember that board frustration better than others. It culminated with an all-time board meltdown when the bust of early March 2013 happened...

 

[mappy]

this is going well. 

[vastateofmind]

16 minutes ago, mappy said:

this is going well. 

Yep, interesting discussion for sure. But as one who's lurked less and asked more questions this year, I found the reminders to self-mod and keep certain comments in certain places appropriate.   

[H2O]

2 minutes ago, vastateofmind said:

Yep, interesting discussion for sure. But as one who's lurked less and asked more questions this year, I found the reminders to self-mod and keep certain comments in certain places appropriate.   

If only others took the same reminders to heart as you have.  

[mappy]

3 minutes ago, vastateofmind said:

Yep, interesting discussion for sure. But as one who's lurked less and asked more questions this year, I found the reminders to self-mod and keep certain comments in certain places appropriate.   

Thank you! Appreciate you taking the time to self-moderate.