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January 2018 Discussions & Observations Thread


Rtd208

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12 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

Can someone elaborate on what mechanics generate “ocean effect” snow we’re seeing off the coast.. I’m assuming it’s similar to lake effect as the cold presses through... is like to know actually dynamics tia 

It’s exactly the same structure. Nothing more nothing less

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9 hours ago, NJwx85 said:

For those of you like me that cannot wait for Spring, only about 6-7 weeks of true snow season remain. After President's Day week odds of a significant storm decline significantly. We all know that it can snow into April, but the heart of the season will be over by then. We deserve an early Spring after how bitterly cold it has been.

Don't get too far out over your skis here bud.

February will be cold with AN snow.

I hate post March 15 snows , whats the point.

That said we have a solid 2 week break coming and then those heights rise again in Alaska and it's game on

 

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1 hour ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

Can someone elaborate on what mechanics generate “ocean effect” snow we’re seeing off the coast.. I’m assuming it’s similar to lake effect as the cold presses through... is like to know actually dynamics tia 

Check out GOES16 from today. Looks like even the sound tried to produce 

http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?parms=regional-northeast-14-96-1-100

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13 minutes ago, qg_omega said:

NYC below zero, doesn't look likely as 850s don't get near -28 which is what is needed for NYC.  Saturday night many should go below zero if we get calm winds by morning

winds aren't favorable either. wnw instead of northerly 

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9 hours ago, SnowGoose69 said:

I would like to see maps at 500, 850 and surface of the 1934 and 1917 arctic outbreak here.  I just don’t see any way that NYC could go that far below 0 unless the polar vortex basically dropped right out of Quebec over us 

So you think the cold is originating from a source too far away from us in other words?  Perhaps it's moderating as it gets closer to our region if I understand correctly. 

I think NYC will get stuck in the low single digits.  Even for me to go more than 3 or 4 below has been very hard in the last decade. 

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I have been reading your posts since Sept. I appreciate the short term read.

 

Beyond that...

 

To make a statement like no snow cover for a 2 week swath of January is extraordinary. All it takes is the correct timing (think last MLK weekend) and you get your storm and snowcover. Even if it lasts a day, that statement is found to be wrong.

 

Unless you are seeing a torch of 50 plus for a 2 week period, anything and everything is fair game in January.

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This morning, the temperature fell to 8° in Central Park. That is the 4th day this winter that the thermometer has fallen below 10°. The last winter with at least as many such days was winter 2014-15 when there were 9. This was also the 11th consecutive day on which the temperature fell below 20°, the most since there were 11 consecutive days from December 17-27, 1989.

The guidance continues to signal a January thaw with early next week marking the transition. The warmest readings relative to normal are likely to occur toward the end of the thaw.

NYC’s Average Temperature Through:

1/5: 18.7° (14.3° below normal)
1/10: 20.9°-23.3° (1/5 estimate: 20.2°-23.2°)
1/15: 26.8°-30.4° (1/5 estimate: 24.7°-28.7°)
1/20: 27.4°-31.6° (1/5 estimate: 25.9°-30.4°)

Per aggressive sensitivity analysis, the estimated probability of a below normal monthly anomaly: 55% (1/5 estimate: 57%)

Some of the guidance continues to point to a light snowfall for parts of the region (generally an inch or less with a few higher amounts) Monday night into Tuesday morning as the transition toward a thaw commences.

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46 minutes ago, jfklganyc said:

I have been reading your posts since Sept. I appreciate the short term read.

 

Beyond that...

 

To make a statement like no snow cover for a 2 week swath of January is extraordinary. All it takes is the correct timing (think last MLK weekend) and you get your storm and snowcover. Even if it lasts a day, that statement is found to be wrong.

 

Unless you are seeing a torch of 50 plus for a 2 week period, anything and everything is fair game in January.

The temperature jump is going to be crazy come Thursday and Friday. The metro area will be approaching, if not exceeding 50 degrees both days. That’s going to feel like 90 compared to this weekend lol

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6 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

The temperature jump is going to be crazy come Thursday and Friday. The metro area will be approaching, if not exceeding 50 degrees both days. That’s going to feel like 90 compared to this weekend lol

Our two winter truths of the 2010's are that snowstorms and warm ups love to overperform.  A couple of days ago some  models hardly had us getting much past 40 degrees this week. 

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45 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Our two winter truths of the 2010's are that snowstorms and warm ups love to overperform.  A couple of days ago some  models hardly had us getting much past 40 degrees this week. 

And there is no reason that can’t change.

The Big problem on this board (and this is 100% not directed at you) is Somone seeing what they want on a given model suite and taking that as an absolute. This goes both ways obviously. But some just keep doing it over and over and over. The great thing about weather is it’s unpredicatable. We haven’t made much progress in the past 20 years as far as modeling despite tremendous increases in computing power.

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58 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Our two winter truths of the 2010's are that snowstorms and warm ups love to overperform.  A couple of days ago some  models hardly had us getting much past 40 degrees this week. 

Love how the models have a hard time getting the weather right until it is right upon us!

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42 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

And there is no reason that can’t change.

The Big problem on this board (and this is 100% not directed at you) is Somone seeing what they want on a given model suite and taking that as an absolute. This goes both ways obviously. But some just keep doing it over and over and over. The great thing about weather is it’s unpredicatable. We haven’t made much progress in the past 20 years as far as modeling despite tremendous increases in computing power.

I would have to disagree with you  on this. The main sentiment that we sometimes see on the boards is that the current pattern will be what continues. Remember back in late August and early September how there were many posts suggesting that the cool pattern would continue. When we flipped to record warmth, that was going to continue. When the record cold arrived in early November, that meant that it wouldn't moderate. We got the moderation following that record cold shot. Next when the cold and snows arrived in early December , it couldn't go above 50 the week before Christmas  which happened. Now that we are seeing this extreme cold, the temperatures will be set to rebound again.

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28 minutes ago, WEATHERBUFF said:

Love how the models have a hard time getting the weather right until it is right upon us!

They do very well with the general themes like transitions between warm and cold. But the specifics often have to wait until the shorter term. If you understand some of the biases, then you can see where the models may correct to later on.

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Weather models have actually improved significantly in the last 20 years, we see that in the weeklies, monthlies, and ensembles that can nail temperature and precip patterns. 

Even more intricate events like hurricanes and singular storms can be tracked several days to even weeks in advance.

People often blame models before potential winter storms where even a 25-50 mile change in the storm track can mean heavy snow vs. no snow or rain. Nobody notices or cares about those types of changes during rain storms. 

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54 minutes ago, bluewave said:

They do very well with the general themes like transitions between warm and cold. But the specifics often have to wait until the shorter term. If you understand some of the biases, then you can see where the models may correct to later on.

Yes but they are not much better from a few days out then they will a few years ago. They also overdo or undo temps.

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18 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

Weather models have actually improved significantly in the last 20 years, we see that in the weeklies, monthlies, and ensembles that can nail temperature and precip patterns. 

Even more intricate events like hurricanes and singular storms can be tracked several days to even weeks in advance.

People often blame models before potential winter storms where even a 25-50 mile change in the storm track can mean heavy snow vs. no snow or rain. Nobody notices or cares about those types of changes during rain storms. 

That's true. Younger people on these boards don't realize the giant leap short term to seasonal NWP has made since the 80's. The EPS and OP Euro Hurricane Sandy longer range forecast was on of the top technological achievements of this century so far.

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1 hour ago, bluewave said:

I would have to disagree with you  on this. The main sentiment that we sometimes see on the boards is that the current pattern will be what continues. Remember back in late August and early September how there were many posts suggesting that the cool pattern would continue. When we flipped to record warmth, that was going to continue. When the record cold arrived in early November, that meant that it wouldn't moderate. We got the moderation following that record cold shot. Next when the cold and snows arrived in early December , it couldn't go above 50 the week before Christmas  which happened. Now that we are seeing this extreme cold, the temperatures will be set to rebound again.

A good example of that was the 2010-2011 winter. Remember back in late January 2011 when the pattern broke down and everyone kept saying that it was transient/brief and it was going to come right back? “Don’t trust long duration warmups in a cold pattern, this is temporary”.... I remember Joe Cioffi saying that back then

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4 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

A good example of that was the 2010-2011 winter. Remember back in late January 2011 when the pattern broke down and everyone kept saying that it was transient/brief and it was going to come right back? “Don’t trust long duration warmups in a cold pattern, this is temporary”.... I remember Joe Cioffi saying that back then

Basically its almost a coin flip on whether we snap back to cold or not. I wonder what the statistics are for pattern flips vs. Reloads.

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