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Holidays 2017-18 Mid-Long Range Disco


WxUSAF

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22 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

At least the southern stream stays active throughout the run. There will be plenty of opportunities to get snow over the next couple of weeks. That is really all I care about seeing in an op run at long lead times in all honesty.

I honestly thought with the Southern stream depicted so strongly yesterday this would be an easier long range outcome to grasp for the GFS.  Its been nothing of the sort so far though. Very challenging hobby this is .   

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16 minutes ago, ers-wxman1 said:

GFS cannot be trusted with anything beyond day 3. It’s been very inconsistent run to run. 

Seems like it locks in right around day 4-5. Sure there may be some skill issues at 5 days... But generally it is good at that range.

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3 minutes ago, olafminesaw said:

GEFS looks generally suppressed, but likes the second wave better.

It backed off a lot. In 2 runs it went from a general NW track to suppressed south. It still seems to follow the op too closely for my liking. But the general look is good. It's not like I see any huge red flags why this can't happen. I'd rather it look slightly suppressed at this range. 

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

It backed off a lot. In 2 runs it went from a general NW track to suppressed south. It still seems to follow the op too closely for my liking. But the general look is good. It's not like I see any huge red flags why this can't happen. I'd rather it look slightly suppressed at this range. 

I thought the same exact thing. It's been loaded with big rain/mixed events until just now. Big shift but so was the op...

Spread on the GEFS is weird. It was really prevalent this summer with tropical events. If 18z comes out juiced so will the ens and so on and so forth. 

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When was the last big (widespread 10"+) event that was north on the guidance 4-7 days out and trended south to crush us. Honest question. I'm trying to think of all the big ones and every one seems to have been either a hit or south at that range.  I can't think of a single one that was supposed to be a snow north of us and became a mecs  or HECS for us. 

ETA:  I can think of a few SECS level events that shifted south inside a few days. March 2014 being one example. But no big ones. 

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

When was the last big (widespread 10"+) event that was north on the guidance 4-7 days out and trended south to crush us. Honest question. I'm trying to think of all the big ones and every one seems to have been either a hit or south at that range.  I can't think of a single one that was supposed to be a snow north of us and became a mecs  or HECS for us. 

Very true. Remember the ones where NYC was only going to get like 4 to 8 inches and ended up with feet of snow. Thats happened twice recently in the past. You are correct, more likely to come North then come South .   

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23 minutes ago, PDIII said:

Seems like it locks in right around day 4-5. Sure there may be some skill issues at 5 days... But generally it is good at that range.

It hasn’t been performing too well at all this fall and winter. A lot of swings from run to run. I think there has been quite a bit of tweaking and adjusting going on which has affected performance. 

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5 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

I thought the same exact thing. It's been loaded with big rain/mixed events until just now. Big shift but so was the op...

Spread on the GEFS is weird. It was really prevalent this summer with tropical events. If 18z comes out juiced so will the ens and so on and so forth. 

When things are way out in unicorn land it's harder to see but now that it's inside a week the lack of spread in the ensemble is evident. And yea it was really obvious with tropical season. It's a pretty big issue imo. An ensemble is useless if it doesn't offer enough perturbations. I don't really see the usefulness of a bunch of low res mini gfs's saying "yea what he said".  That said I'm sure this is complicated and I have the utmost respect for those that program these things so for those that read this don't take my critique personally. 

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2 minutes ago, ers-wxman1 said:

It hasn’t been performing too well at all this fall and winter. A lot of swings from run to run. I think there has been quite a bit of tweaking and adjusting going on which has affected performance. 

What's your take on our observations that the gefs don't seem to have enough spread and follow the op too closely?

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9 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

When things are way out in unicorn land it's harder to see but now that it's inside a week the lack of spread in the ensemble is evident. And yea it was really obvious with tropical season. It's a pretty big issue imo. An ensemble is useless if it doesn't offer enough perturbations. I don't really see the usefulness of a bunch of low res mini gfs's saying "yea what he said".  That said I'm sure this is complicated and I have the utmost respect for those that program these things so for those that read this don't take my critique personally. 

I think they're aware of the problem.  I've noticed that the verification scores for the GEFS at 8+ days have been lagging recently, which I think is a related issue.  This summer dtk indicated that they're looking into ways to address it.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, nj2va said:

12z UKMET only goes out to 144 and the maps/data available is limited but it seems to like the multiple wave idea as well.  The first (next Thursday) is suppressed but at H144 there’s some light precip beginning to break out over IA which the Euro has too.

I've been watching the shortwave that passes through on Wed. No model does much with it because it shears out but all guidance has it moving through the flow. It was there cruising through the plains again on the GFS @ hr 102 but no precip. That's our first potential event after Christmas. It's one of those things that could become something seemingly out of nowhere on the surface panels but has been showing up run after run on the upper level panels. 

gfs_z500_vort_us_18.png

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I liked the runs with the trof digging somewhat in the southwest better.  Why were we cursing it?

Good example of too much of a good thing and be careful what you wish for all rolled into one. Where's that SER when you need it? Still bet this doesnt end up as suppressed. Honestly, are people *that* uncomfortable with this look and plenty of wiggle room for when the inevitable NW shift happens or would you guys have rather this trended towards a Great Lakes low? I know which I choose.

 

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