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December 2017 Mid-Long Range Disco 2


WxUSAF

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48 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Ever since the upgrade the GEFS tends to swing lock step with the op way too much.  Its to the point that I tend to use the last several runs of the GEFS and kind of average them together in my mind to get a more effective feel then to use any one ensemble run.  Its a shame they don't fix that.  But they jump around way too much run to run right now.  

One of the side-effects of the GEFS following the op so closely is that the window in which the op out-verifies the ensemble is small.  The GEFS tend to outperform the GFS up until about 48 hours before the event, and even within 48 hours there's not much difference between the two.  Of course the op is still better for high-res stuff like identifying likely snow bands.

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26 minutes ago, Negnao said:

For what it's worth, nice jump on the snowfall mean on the gefs. Just trying to stay positive. 

It means something.   Snow mean maps can tell you something if you know how to use them. 

Op snow maps at range are useless. Using mean snow maps for details are useless. Where the fringe will be. Or thinking they are going to pick up on exactly where features will be. They are smoothed. 

But they can give a quick general feel for where the ensembles think the general storm track is going to be. 

IMG_3435.thumb.PNG.995e13ca8ab3d76a31ed69691db3bd5a.PNG

So looking at that, keeping in mind a lot of that snow to our northeast is from the next 5 days, if you take that out in your mind it's obvious where the storm track is days 5-16. Also notice the sagging snow max into central NC. That's a great sign for us. It means lots of members are seeing CAD and coastal redevelopment on storms. The axis of snow is clearly through the mid Atlantic after day 5. 

Now this is just one run and a long range so taking too much is a bad idea but it was a good run. Honestly 4 of the last 5 gefs were heading this way too with 6z being the one not so good blip in the trend. 

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6 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

The good news is the euro has the arctic boundary overhead @ hr144 with a much better height pattern to keep it pressing. GFS may have been a blip. 

Yeah euro is way flatter than the gfs or CMC.  1044 high over NE at 168hrs, broad low amplitude troff in the central US. 

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28 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Best run of the GEFS I've seen this year. Very active and many opportunities. The op's rainy cutter post xmas is a minority with not a lot of support. The majority are mixed or snow events. Great run. 

Agreed. It was a "fun" looking run to me.  I care way more what the EPS/Gefs and to some extent the Geps has to say about days 5-15 then the ops right now. 

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53 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

It means something.   Snow mean maps can tell you something if you know how to use them. 

Op snow maps at range are useless. Using mean snow maps for details are useless. Where the fringe will be. Or thinking they are going to pick up on exactly where features will be. They are smoothed. 

But they can give a quick general feel for where the ensembles think the general storm track is going to be. 

IMG_3435.thumb.PNG.995e13ca8ab3d76a31ed69691db3bd5a.PNG

So looking at that, keeping in mind a lot of that snow to our northeast is from the next 5 days, if you take that out in your mind it's obvious where the storm track is days 5-16. Also notice the sagging snow max into central NC. That's a great sign for us. It means lots of members are seeing CAD and coastal redevelopment on storms. The axis of snow is clearly through the mid Atlantic after day 5. 

Now this is just one run and a long range so taking too much is a bad idea but it was a good run. Honestly 4 of the last 5 gefs were heading this way too with 6z being the one not so good blip in the trend. 

One thing to add. Look how far south that snow is showing up. A good indication that the cold is penetrating deep south. Probably a decent indication that there is some suppression in play at times during this period as well.

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Like MN pointed out earlier. The pac shortwaves and progressive flow is going to cause huge swings out in time with timing and placement. Euro is very active. First sw is light overrunning event with some mix in the DC burbs. 1-3" verbatim and some ice. The trailing fantasy shortwave is money but d9-10 is what it is. 

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1 minute ago, Bob Chill said:

Like MN pointed out earlier. The pac shortwaves and progressive flow is going to cause huge swings out in time with timing and placement. Euro is very active. First sw is light overrunning event with some mix in the DC burbs. 1-3" verbatim and some ice. The trailing fantasy shortwave is money but d9-10 is what it is. 

Is the trailing s/w you are talking about after day 9 and 10?

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1 minute ago, yoda said:

Is the trailing s/w you are talking about after day 9 and 10?

D9-10 is a classic MA snowstorm setup. But in progressive flow it's just an iteration of what's possible. I will say that the LR is shaping up to be very active. We were staring at a storm killing medicine ball a few short days ago. Now that the depth of the cold has backed off, we are getting more aligned with the war zone. Idgaf about single digit lows. I care about snow. 

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1 minute ago, NorthArlington101 said:

It's beautiful... cold smoke. Easy 1'+ as depicted. Too bad these things come and go from run to run, but we've clearly got a lot of potential. 

Yea, that run was a beaut at the end. There were similar solutions embedded in the GEFS. It's nice to get a clean pass to the south. We had them in jan/feb 14-15 even with no blocking. As long as the progressive flow is active and cold highs keep dropping out of Canada, we'll probably end up on the winning side of something. One of my rules with tracking this stuff is it normally takes 3 legit chances to score 1 storm. The euro has 3 legit chances...

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1 hour ago, mitchnick said:

The fact that the models have pushed the warm out so decisively for Christmas vs. what they advertised a few days ago gives me hope. But then we scored on our first snow thanks to the SE ridge flexing its muscles, so there's that too in the back of my mind (it's OK though, it's bald on that part of my head too!)

This has also been traversing the gap between my ears as well.

Cold has been on the move in the right direction. Prob a few days till we sort next week out. 

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Just now, Amped said:

Remember yesterdays 240hr look?  WHy would anyone take today's seriously?

https://i.imgur.com/qIQOGIB.gif

No, I doubt any of us take anything seriously in the sense that any exact solution is locked in. However, the premise of pac shortwaves undercutting cold hp is something I do take seriously. There's a lot of support for that general progression after Christmas. Inside of that progression is that any type of storm is possible. Including complete disasters... Just keep presenting chances and odds catch up to us. One and done setups are the worst. We've recently had several winters with the same type of progression that the models are now showing. Hard to not at least be a little excited for some legit potential right??

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3 minutes ago, Thanatos_I_Am said:

For those who can see the individual members, any support for that Day 9-10 deal in last night’s EPS? 

Yes, quite a bit for 9-10 leads. I'd have to waste time checking all of them but there were plenty of snow solutions through d10 and even more beyond that. Last night's EPS was the best ens run of the year by far. 

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