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December Model Discussion


UlsterCountySnowZ

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31 minutes ago, Animal said:

I was curious to see what the 12z GFS would show as we are now in the "big" window.

to my surprise...I don't see a storm that impacts the NY metro area.

hmm. 

There is no big window anymore with the models. They have been awful. Let's wait until the energy is sampled.

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27 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

It's an awful model run, it would be devastating if we didn't get any snow from this pattern because we will warm after wards, and if it ends up like 10/11 then winter will end early.

Have fun defending this one weenies.

Winter didn't end early in 10/11

The warm-up started in February that winter. We still saw some snow during the warm up.

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6 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

I said if it goes that route, not that it will. GGEM only has a clipper during the next 10 days and completely whiffs on wave 1 & 2. 

Euro/EPS have stayed away from this the last 2-3 days. 

EPS has alot of lows close to the coast. Yes it shows mostly a Miller B but that can change in a second.

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10 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

There is no big window anymore with the models. They have been awful. Let's wait until the energy is sampled.

 

8 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

EPS has alot of lows close to the coast. Yes it shows mostly a Miller B but that can change in a second.

There is no indication there is going to be any phasing of the streams - northern stream as of right now is forecasted to be dominate around here until there is evidence to the contrary..

gem_asnow_us_24.png

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Posting this again with slight changes as people are playing model certainty again. I really wonder why no one learned the last time around. 

Regardless, we have seen this show before. We see mega numbers spit out a week in advance that gets everyone excited. Then as we get into that 4-6 day range the models lose the storm or supress it. This gets the warministas out. Then finally within 72 hours the storm trends closer and closer. In the case of last March too close for the coast. Climatologically these storms like to follow the north wall of the Gulf Stream and thus take that bench mark track. There is a ton of energy out there. We still have above normal sea surface temps offshore. Mix that with true arctic air and things go boom. It’s a simple mix of meteorology and climatology. This isn’t the 80s we have had an incredible ability to squeeze big events out of any cold we get. No reason to think that stops now. Anyone speaking in absolutes this far out before these waves are even sampled is a weather kook and shouldn’t be taken seriously...

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42 minutes ago, SnoSki14 said:

It's an awful model run, it would be devastating if we didn't get any snow from this pattern because we will warm after wards, and if it ends up like 10/11 then winter will end early.

Have fun defending this one weenies.

I got 3 inches last night. The next 2 weeks are going to be cold and what happens beyond that we just don't know yet. Odds are there will be a relaxation in middle of January but it's foolish to say winter will end early. If it's ok with you I'm not going to put the winter boots away just yet. 

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12 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Posting this again with slight changes as people are playing model certainty again. I really wonder why no one learned the last time around. 

Regardless, we have seen this show before. We see mega numbers spit out a week in advance that gets everyone excited. Then as we get into that 4-6 day range the models lose the storm or supress it. This gets the warministas out. Then finally within 72 hours the storm trends closer and closer. In the case of last March too close for the coast. Climatologically these storms like to follow the north wall of the Gulf Stream and thus take that bench mark track. There is a ton of energy out there. We still have above normal sea surface temps offshore. Mix that with true arctic air and things go boom. It’s a simple mix of meteorology and climatology. This isn’t the 80s we have had an incredible ability to squeeze big events out of any cold we get. No reason to think that stops now. Anyone speaking in absolutes this far out before these waves are even sampled is a weather kook and shouldn’t be taken seriously...

The entire evolution has changed.  This isn't even the same thing we were originally tracking.    

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 I see a weak s/w and an insufficient western ridge due to too much energy crashing into it causing deamplification.  An overmodeled SE ridge in the long range also didn't help.  

Again, we are now counting on a possible late blooming Miller B to deliver the goods.  The problem is that we need this to dig several hundred miles to the south and redevelop off of the Delmarva and I don't see a mechanism to make that happen as of now. 

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10 minutes ago, Rjay said:

 I see a weak s/w and an insufficient western ridge due to too much energy crashing into it causing deamplification.  An overmodeled SE ridge in the long range also didn't help.  

Again, we are now counting on a possible late blooming Miller B to deliver the goods.  The problem is that we need this to dig several hundred miles to the south and redevelop off of the Delmarva and I don't see a mechanism to make that happen as of now. 

The southeast ridge has been trending stronger as we got closer to the past storms. What is going to change this time around ?

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1 minute ago, Snow88 said:

The southeast ridge has been trending stronger as we got closer to the past storms. What is going to change this time around ?

The SE ridge is basically non-existent on the last bunch of runs.  

We would need it to trend stronger and start trending very soon. 

4db9d772-27aa-4540-9087-67b6466cec50.gif

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1 hour ago, Snow88 said:

Winter didn't end early in 10/11

The warm-up started in February that winter. We still saw some snow during the warm up.

The high latitude blocking started slowly breaking down in mid January and by the end of January it was gone and it never came back again, right through spring. The torch pattern started early February, yes 

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24 minutes ago, Rjay said:

The SE ridge is basically non-existent on the last bunch of runs.  

We would need it to trend stronger and start trending very soon. 

4db9d772-27aa-4540-9087-67b6466cec50.gif

Agree with you here, we have a few issues, totally non exsistant WAR/SE ridge, the TPV, and the +PNA ridge is under attack from the upstream shortwave, deamplifying it and knocking it down. Plus we have very strong arctic high pressure pressing down, acting to further suppress the flow south of us

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6 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

The high latitude blocking started slowly breaking down in mid January and by the end of January it was gone and it never came back again, right through spring. The torch pattern started early February, yes 

We would have beaten 1996 if the blocking didn't go away

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8 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

Agree with you here, we have a few issues, totally non exsistant WAR/SE ridge, the TPV and the +PNA ridge is under attack from the upstream shortwave, deamplifying it and knocking it down. Plus we have very strong arctic high pressure pressing down, acting to further suppress the flow south of us

I don't think a minor or moderate event is off the table though.

  It's just that we need that upstream s/w to be further west and stronger to amplify the PNA ridge.  We also need a stronger SE ridge.  Then we have a shot at something sizable.  

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1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

UKMET looks decent for saturday. Hopefully we can get some high ratio snow from the system coming in from the west.

Looks like a couple/few inches of snow.  I'll take it at this point.   It also shows a crazy IVT into CNJ which as we know is impossible to forecast at this lead time.  

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1 minute ago, Rjay said:

Looks like a couple/few inches of snow.  I'll take it at this point.   It also shows a crazy IVT into CNJ which as we know is impossible to forecast at this lead time.  

Yeah I would gladly take a few inches with the super cold air in place. Right now we have GGEM and UKMET showing a couple/few inches for saturday. Hopefully the Euro will agree.

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2 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

Euro is showing a nice snow event now for Saturday

Miller B

All northern stream.  This our potential now.  What the Euro just show.  It's not the blockbuster KU everyone was looking for but it's a solid moderate event with cold temps and high ratios. 

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