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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2018


Cary_Snow95

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2 hours ago, mackerel_sky said:

Birds only count when they fly over Wilkesboro! ;) 

JB bumbling and stumbling about cold, imagine that!? I better trade in my preemergent for a pallet of ice melt! :( Powerstoke better ready up the plows and plan on heading North. I have dandelions blooming, saw robins today, winters over!

Okie dokie, guess we'll see you next fall then!! Have a great summer!!! :sizzle:

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2 hours ago, mackerel_sky said:

Birds only count when they fly over Wilkesboro! ;) 

JB bumbling and stumbling about cold, imagine that!? I better trade in my preemergent for a pallet of ice melt! :( Powerstoke better ready up the plows and plan on heading North. I have dandelions blooming, saw robins today, winters over!

Probably have chick weed and henbit to.  They are perennial weeds that will pop out when temps above 60 for a couple of days.  Get you some speedzone you will be fine.  No need for me to go North I made plenty last week to sit back and relax and take Big Frost out to eat.  However thank you for the concern.  

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6 hours ago, WarmNose said:

00z GFS pulls the frigid air into southern Canada with 2m temp readings approaching -50 just off the US Canada border, throws the SE a couple transient cold "chilly" shots, then cancels winter within the next 3 frames. Unreal 

Luckily, the 6z gives quite a few possibilities of wintry threats, so we have the best model in the world on our side! ;)

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7 hours ago, WarmNose said:

00z GFS pulls the frigid air into southern Canada with 2m temp readings approaching -50 just off the US Canada border, throws the SE a couple transient cold "chilly" shots, then cancels winter within the next 3 frames. Unreal 

See Snowgoose's post from yesterday on how the GFS has handled temps at this range of late.

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4 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

Here comes my 1050 high.  Get ready y’all!

40E71FBC-F023-4F8C-AF59-474FD3172049.thumb.png.fab422d22ba97fbcf9d370b047b653a5.png

BL issues! That looks like a leftover piece of lost pepperoni and jalapeño pizza that got left behind and they tried to cover up with a fresh meat-lovers. I just hope this stuff doesn't get pushing back in time! :( . Your 1055 high is 384 out!

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Models struggle with a pattern change.  You see LR maps look cold then warm then zonal then average then cold then warm then cold or whatever.  Nothing to worry too much about.  Most indicators point to a below average Feb.  That's the main point.  If we get to the first week of Feb and it looks like the cold pattern is still 10-15 days out, then we can start to worry a bit.  Right now, there are no indications of that happening.

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Models, especially the GFS are horrible at pattern changes, they never lock into a blocky pattern until its within 7 days or so.....folks need to look at the indexes, and overall setup and not hug the warm ups the GFS has after the first week of Feb....if the forecast for most indexes are correct and frankly they probably are then it will be very cold in Feb....sometime between Feb 1-10th its gonna get blocky and be darn near record cold for 7-10 days at least .

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Remember how the GFS had a SE ridge that left the cold(est) air further west back in late Dec? That didn't turn out so well and as we got closer in time the ridge fizzled out. I know late Dec/early Jan climo is different and less conducive for a SE ridge but I wouldn't bet against that happening again. In any case, the first week of Feb was always supposed to be a transition week. I'm optimistic...however we do live in the SE where luck is needed for winter weather no matter how the indices are stacked.

In other news, 00z EPS has a bit more support for the possible Feb 2-3 event in MBY. 

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35 minutes ago, NCSNOW said:

Hope everyone has enjoyed their thaw/break. Cause February is getting ready to write the exclamation point on one of the top 5 all time winters in the SE. Ill be very suprised with what Im seeing and reading if the winter of 2017/2018 doesnt go out with a grand finally "Glory Style." 

You've been JB'd

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My latest thoughts are that early Feb will favor a more traditional -EPO pattern where the core of the cold is to our NW, transitioning to a colder mean pattern for us in the mid Feb timeframe.

Here's the GEFS on Feb 5.  We do better cold-wise when the mean western ridge is in E Alaska / W Canada as opposed to straight thru Alaska like this image.

SIJQ1os.png

 

We currently have the most coherent MJO event of the winter ongoing, but it's going to take some time for it to propagate east out of the Maritime Continent / Western Pacific into the Eastern Pacific.  The bad news is that a stronger MJO event means slower propagation, with the good news (for cold lovers) being that a slower propagation may keep the MJO in the cold phases longer. 

The weekly NOAA MJO Updates have good info related to the MJO (http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/mjoupdate.pdf).  Here are a few snippets from the latest version...

"The MJO remains active, with the enhanced phase over the Maritime Continent and the suppressed phase over the Pacific.  A robust Wave-1 asymmetry remains very apparent in the upper-level circulation pattern, reflecting an organized MJO event.  Dynamical and statistical models strongly support continued MJO activity, with the enhanced phase propagating from the Maritime Continent to the West Pacific over the next two weeks.  Recent MJO activity teleconnects well with the current extratropical pattern over the CONUS.  If a robust West Pacific MJO event occurs, the extratropical response may favor a transition to a colder pattern for the central and eastern U.S. during mid-February"

We shall see...these are just some long range thoughts that are inherently less reliable than short range.

 

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34 minutes ago, griteater said:

My latest thoughts are that early Feb will favor a more traditional -EPO pattern where the core of the cold is to our NW, transitioning to a colder mean pattern for us in the mid Feb timeframe.

Here's the GEFS on Feb 5.  We do better cold-wise when the mean western ridge is in E Alaska / W Canada as opposed to straight thru Alaska like this image.

SIJQ1os.png

 

We currently have the most coherent MJO event of the winter ongoing, but it's going to take some time for it to propagate east out of the Maritime Continent / Western Pacific into the Eastern Pacific.  The bad news is that a stronger MJO event means slower propagation, with the good news (for cold lovers) being that a slower propagation may keep the MJO in the cold phases longer. 

The weekly NOAA MJO Updates have good info related to the MJO (http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/mjoupdate.pdf).  Here are a few snippets from the latest version...

"The MJO remains active, with the enhanced phase over the Maritime Continent and the suppressed phase over the Pacific.  A robust Wave-1 asymmetry remains very apparent in the upper-level circulation pattern, reflecting an organized MJO event.  Dynamical and statistical models strongly support continued MJO activity, with the enhanced phase propagating from the Maritime Continent to the West Pacific over the next two weeks.  Recent MJO activity teleconnects well with the current extratropical pattern over the CONUS.  If a robust West Pacific MJO event occurs, the extratropical response may favor a transition to a colder pattern for the central and eastern U.S. during mid-February"

We shall see...these are just some long range thoughts that are inherently less reliable than short range.

 

Good post.  How does the EPS look through its run?  Your thoughts on the MJO are spot on.  And please tell Mack, that he can still easily get a fresh out of the oven Miller B in that pattern and get an inch of ice!

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33 minutes ago, Orangeburgwx said:

I notice a trend so far this winter, and PLEASE correct me if wrong

8-10 days out: GFS 

5-8 days out: bank on the EURO

inside 5 days: NAM, UK, JMA 

The NAM is a 3.5 day model I believe with lower probs. at its extended range (>48hrs).  That said, it has been pretty good this year. 

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22 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

That look in Grits post has a Rockies trough look, which won't do anybody well in the SE that wants cold and snow! Also, gonna have to get pretty cold air to get wintry precip, 10 degrees BN, puts me at 45 ish for a high! Hard to get wintry with that! Need some 20-30 BN temps to score IMBY!

Its pretty much how the Jan outbreak started......2 of the 3 biggest snows in my life happened Feb 24th and Mar 2-3.....the thing about Feb cold is climo wise its about the coldest air you can get in the arctic with the cold peaking there in early to mid Feb.....

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39 minutes ago, mackerel_sky said:

That look in Grits post has a Rockies trough look, which won't do anybody well in the SE that wants cold and snow! Also, gonna have to get pretty cold air to get wintry precip, 10 degrees BN, puts me at 45 ish for a high! Hard to get wintry with that! Need some 20-30 BN temps to score IMBY!

10 below at the surface on a sunny day isnt what you need to look for. How bout 2 to 5 BN at 850 when a storm is winding up. Then youll get your 20 BN at the surface thanks to frozen precip falling into wedged CAD

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