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Winter 2017-18 Medium/Long Range Disco


Hoosier

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5 minutes ago, hawkeye_wx said:

The 00z GFS forecast for Christmas is brutal.  It's dropping a giant PV right down into the US with widespread sub-zero across the upper midwest.

Just beat me to it.  

A good deal of uncertainty yet, but with any luck hopefully we avoid a grinch storm then.  Though depending where you are, maybe the late week storm is the grinch.

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Given the persistent ensemble support for a very robust -EPO, almost have to wonder if a more brutal cold shot is a given at this point and it's just a question of when and exactly where it comes in and how bad it is.  As for the potential "threat" next weekend through around Christmas, just way too many questions to get excited yet.  On paper, energy potentially ejecting out of the SW with decent cold pressing in from the north and a SE ridge in place should favor something in the region, but I feel like locally whenever this "setup" is evident in the mid-range it fails at least 75% of the time (that's completely anecdotal so I may be well wrong).  I feel like we either get too much energy ejecting out and a larger storm forms farther west (which could be good for other parts of the sub), the energy comes out weak and there's a weaker storm farther south, the energy comes out too slow and gets sheared out or so late that it isn't timed with the cold (not likely here I don't think), or the cold comes in stronger/weaker or at a different angle.  But, it is the next period to watch.  The players will be on the field so to speak, just a giant question mark regarding the exact evolution of everything.  

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1 minute ago, OHweather said:

Given the persistent ensemble support for a very robust -EPO, almost have to wonder if a more brutal cold shot is a given at this point and it's just a question of when and exactly where it comes in and how bad it is.  As for the potential "threat" next weekend through around Christmas, just way too many questions to get excited yet.  On paper, energy potentially ejecting out of the SW with decent cold pressing in from the north and a SE ridge in place should favor something in the region, but I feel like locally whenever this "setup" is evident in the mid-range it fails at least 75% of the time (that's completely anecdotal so I may be well wrong).  I feel like we either get too much energy ejecting out and a larger storm forms farther west (which could be good for other parts of the sub), the energy comes out weak and there's a weaker storm farther south, the energy comes out too slow and gets sheared out or so late that it isn't timed with the cold (not likely here I don't think), or the cold comes in stronger/weaker or at a different angle.  But, it is the next period to watch.  The players will be on the field so to speak, just a giant question mark regarding the exact evolution of everything.  

Great points. I really think the warmer waters of the Great Lakes attract Low Pressure systems moving out of the SW. So, they often go up through the western Lakes. The positive thing I've noticed from the models is that there is only so far north these systems can go with the cold air fighting back from up north. I am thinking this late-week system is going to be a mix of different precip. types through a big chunk of this forum with the battle between cold air and warm air.

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56 minutes ago, OHweather said:

Given the persistent ensemble support for a very robust -EPO, almost have to wonder if a more brutal cold shot is a given at this point and it's just a question of when and exactly where it comes in and how bad it is.  As for the potential "threat" next weekend through around Christmas, just way too many questions to get excited yet.  On paper, energy potentially ejecting out of the SW with decent cold pressing in from the north and a SE ridge in place should favor something in the region, but I feel like locally whenever this "setup" is evident in the mid-range it fails at least 75% of the time (that's completely anecdotal so I may be well wrong).  I feel like we either get too much energy ejecting out and a larger storm forms farther west (which could be good for other parts of the sub), the energy comes out weak and there's a weaker storm farther south, the energy comes out too slow and gets sheared out or so late that it isn't timed with the cold (not likely here I don't think), or the cold comes in stronger/weaker or at a different angle.  But, it is the next period to watch.  The players will be on the field so to speak, just a giant question mark regarding the exact evolution of everything.  

BUF NWS agrees:

Quote

Looking further down the road...medium to long range guidance is looking very interesting for the period from Christmas to New Years. For a few model runs now...this longer range guidance has been hinting at a return to notably colder weather for the Great Lakes region. A closed low over Siberia is forecast to break down in the coming days with a chunk of its energy being ejected out across the Kamchatka Peninsula and northern reaches of the Pacific ocean. Eventually...this very robust bundle of mid level energy is forecast to help carve out a full latitude trough over the heart of North America. While highly anomalous ridging off the West coast would extend from 20N all the way to the Pole...a large portion 0f the polar vortex would settle south to northern Ontario. This newly phased pattern would not only include a cross polar flow...but more importantly would allow H85 temps of <-30c within the vortex to make their way across the northern plains. While this long range forecast would place the coldest air of this outbreak over the plains states...the air would eventually make its way to the Ohio Valley.

 

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On December 16, 2017 at 6:14 AM, Baum said:

LOT and surrounding offices much more optimistic on a potential snow event as we transition back to cold later this week. Quite a turn based on some the more downtrodden dialogue around here. Great write up by RC today. Better yet, turn jives with some of his pattern analysis posted from a few weeks back as we entered the NW flow regime. Be nice to see a series of SW lows ride along the periphery of an arctic air mass with plenty of warmth and moisture to feed it. It's been awhile.

Not so much this morning. 

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25 minutes ago, Baum said:

Not so much this morning. 

Nothing like winter wx boredom going into Christmas, eh? 2013 since we had true excitement on the horizon. Sure, '15 had the sleet storm on the 28th and '14 had the Gulf bomb fail from which mby netted 0.5" Christmas Eve, but it already had melted by morning - yippee! Amazing what a perennial dead-spot this period has become around these parts

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2 hours ago, RogueWaves said:

Nothing like winter wx boredom going into Christmas, eh? 2013 since we had true excitement on the horizon. Sure, '15 had the sleet storm on the 28th and '14 had the Gulf bomb fail from which mby netted 0.5" Christmas Eve, but it already had melted by morning - yippee! Amazing what a perennial dead-spot this period has become around these parts

I'm big believer in "the rubber band theory." The weather only pulls so far in one direction before it snaps back far to the reverse. We're getting to that point.....How's that for in depth medium/ long range analysis.:maprain:

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2 minutes ago, blackrock said:

Thoughts on the 12Z GFS vs GGEM?

Well, the GGEM is more favorable in more ways than one.  First because of how it handles the late week storm, and then the situation after that.  For the time around Christmas, the GFS was holding back energy in the west, but it ended up getting sheared out by the northern stream.  

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7 hours ago, DAFF said:

The clipper pattern was great while it lasted... One thing I took from the last week or so was not look too close to the details more than 36 hrs out. Just the pattern. Tuesdays clipper appeared out of nowhere, this theme will continue for the winter.

 

Based on the EC's site, Windsor has recorded 20.6" of snow this month already! Can you confirm that? Sounds preposterous! 

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