November Banter Thread

[mitchnick]

44 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

Welcome back to civilization. I'm glad it wasn't something serious, and the next time something breaks here, I'm asking Bob about it.

Actually, that brings up a question. Does anyone know of a solid roofer? There are a lot of companies out there and I am going to get a few estimates, but I'm always afraid of being taken to the cleaners. This is my first ever roof purchase and I simply have no idea what's a fair price.

Glen Burnie Roofing. Did mine, a few family members,  and many other homes around Linthicum.  Fair price and no complaints by me or anyone I know who had them. 

[H2O]

I'm mad that Bob won the freeze contest.  Stupid DCA 

[nw baltimore wx]

11 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

If I was 10 years younger (and stupider) I might offer my services. Have worked on several roofs through the years but after doing my own roof and the garage in the last few years I have gained some wisdom and realized that it is backbreaking work better reserved for those younger then me.

Can't help you with referrals but I can suggest how to get an idea of whether you are being taken to the cleaners. This is just a rough estimate of costs and will get you in the ballpark at least. They base their estimates on squares which is 100 sq ft (10x10). So if you are able (don't kill yourself trying because the roofers should hopefully give you a fairly good estimate) you need to measure the area that needs to be roofed and get a sq footage. Divide that by 100 and you get the number of squares. Now go online and google the avg costs for your specific area for both removal of old shingles (check to see if it is just one layer of shingles being removed and not two as this will affect the cost) as well as the installation of new which if I remember correctly will be given independent of each other. It is important that you get costs for your specific area because these costs can fluctuate quite drastically from area to area. Add these together and you will get a rough estimate of costs to compare. This estimate though will not cover incidentals that roofers may or may not throw in such as flashing, gutters, replacement of plywood, etc... so take that in consideration with the final cost estimate.

I will add that you may wish to go with an architectural shingle as opposed to a 3 tab. They are a little costlier but you get better life and durability and in my opinion they look much better and are well worth the extra money spent on them. Good luck and if you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will try to answer them the best I can.

**** Of note that I forgot to mention. If you have a steep pitch on your roof this also will probably effect costs as it is more difficult and added safety measures by the roofers need to be taken.

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to write this. I shouldn't have any trouble computing the squares, and I was considering the architectural shingles and am now convinced. I'll keep you in mind if questions arise.

 

6 minutes ago, mitchnick said:

Glen Burnie Roofing. Did mine, a few family members,  and many other homes around Linthicum.  Fair price and no complaints by me or anyone I know who had them. 

Thanks! I'll set up an estimate.

[mappy]

14 hours ago, nw baltimore wx said:

That sucks. My wisdom teeth are the only four teeth that I have that came in straight.

At least it's a good weekend to cozy up indoors, but hope that you're feeling better soon.

Thanks! 

14 hours ago, showmethesnow said:

Sorry to hear that. Hope they at least gave you some Happy pills to get you through it.

Ha, they did. Helps a lot but only taking them at night now. 

14 hours ago, leo2000 said:

Oh I know how that is. I just got then taken out less than two months ago all four were impacted. 

Ugggh. Only two of mine were impacted and the swelling from that side is awful. Could not imagine all four. 

14 hours ago, C.A.P.E. said:

Are you able to sip some Knob Creek?

Hahaha I wish. 

[CAPE]

Just back from a brisk hike at Tuckahoe. Glorious cold.

[Stormpc]

As far as roof pricing, complete job, will cost between 400 and 500 per square. Do not pay any more. That's on the high end. Some proficient roofing contractors are closer to 350 per square. Also, wait till Spring. You don't want to do a roof with temps 50s or below. Good luck. 

[mattie g]

Speaking of wisdom teeth...I’ve had mine since I was 14. Went to a new dentist when I had just graduated college, and he said “it looks like your wisdom teeth are coming in” and claimed I needed to have them out. F’ing shyster.

Waited 18 years to go back to a dentist after that.  

[HighStakes]

2 hours ago, nw baltimore wx said:

Welcome back to civilization. I'm glad it wasn't something serious, and the next time something breaks here, I'm asking Bob about it.

Actually, that brings up a question. Does anyone know of a solid roofer? There are a lot of companies out there and I am going to get a few estimates, but I'm always afraid of being taken to the cleaners. This is my first ever roof purchase and I simply have no idea what's a fair price.

You definitely want to go with an architectural shingle. GAF timberline HD is the big seller at the moment. Certainteed Landmark also is big and is heavier weight per square than GAF. 3 estimates should be fine. Don't go for for any longwinded high pressure sales pitches. It is what it is when it comes to a roof. Have the companies tell you how much your roof measures so you can figure out what they are charging per square. If you're pitch is very steep the cost for labor will go up. Also if you have 2 layers on the roof now labor will be more.If any of the wood is rotted don't let them charge you anymore than 60 per sheet. in most cases that can't tell about rotted wood until they start tearing off. If you have any water leaking in now you probably will need new wood in certain areas. Some companies will try to talk you into replacing all the wood, not necessary unless over 2/3rds is rotted out. 

Very important to make sure they install drip edge. A lot of companies don't in order to cut corners and save cost. You also want to make sure they install Ice and Water shield. Make sure they include ridge vent as well. Don't get talked into new gutters and downspouts unless your are in bad shape. 

Stormpc gave good advice on fair pricing. 300 a square is too low so the company and or labor could be sketchy. 400 a square is fair and reasonable. Even 500 a square is ok as long as the labor and product is very good. Sometimes the guy who gives the estimate does the work himself so his profit is his labor and he will come in at 300 a square roughly. Often you don't know what you're going to get with this type of labor. On the other side there will be a lot of big named companies that will take a shot and try to go for 600-1000 per square. Thats outrageous and they're not giving you anything different than  the other companies are despite what they say in their sales pitch. 

One last bit of advice. Make sure you check on any company that comes out to your house. The only true way to do this is to call the Home Improvement Commission and give them the companies license number. If they have any registered complaints eliminate them immediately. You can also call the BBB but it"s the MHIC that regulates the industry. The Home Improvement Commission is set up to protect the customer, The BBB really is not. Sorry to be longwinded but choosing the right company is often very difficult because they all are going to sound great especially if the salesman is experienced. A bad roof install can become a nightmare you'll have to live with and often once the job is done it can be very difficult to get these guys back to do repairs and services. Ive been in the business for over 20 years and my father for over 50 years so we've seen it all. Good luck  and if you need anymore info. please feel free to message me.

[RDM]

1 minute ago, Stormpc said:

As far as roof pricing, complete job, will cost between 400 and 500 per square. Do not pay any more. That's on the high end. Some proficient roofing contractors are closer to 350 per square. Also, wait till Spring. You don't want to do a roof with temps 50s or below. Good luck. 

Totally agree about waiting till spring.  The warmer the temps the better, and hot weather is the best.  If too cool/cold, the shingles are hard to work with without cracking.  Plus the hot weather serves to set/seal the adhesive on the back side to seal them. 

Also agree with the previous comments about dimensioned shingles.  They are typically better constructed (and do look great), but look at the specs and get the guarantee in writing.  We upgraded to dimensioned shingles when our house and new garage were reroofed in 2011.  Fortunately, insurance paid for the roofing on the house due to hail damage.  The old roof had two layers on it, so removal of the old was a big job.

Make sure they install a rubber membrane on at least the first row where you'd otherwise put tar paper.  It is imperative to help prevent leaks during ice daming issues.  Plus, around here, the rubber membrane is code.  If the roof is a flat roof, say 3/12 or so, have them put two rows of rubber membrane down.  Even the best insulated and ventilated attics can have ice daming issues, like we had around here in 09/10. 

The end of our house where the truck had to park to unload the shingles is nearly 4 stories tall from ground to roof top.  Our house has a basement level end loading garage.  So from ground level up there's the basement, main level, upper level, plus the attic.  One guy came with the truck with an on-board crane.  He scampered around on top of the roof and operated the crane with a remote control to deliver him the shingles on the ridge of the roof.  He unloaded them from the pallet and distributed them around the roof - by himself.  It was something to see, plus not for the weak minded.  He had on roofer's shoes, which are a big asset (have a special rubber welt for grip), but humping two bundles at a time that high in the air on a 10/12 and 12/12 pitch is something to see and not my idea of fun.

USAA was great.  They gave us 18 months to get the work done on the hail claim.  We started construction on a new garage/shop shortly after the hail storm and wanted to wait to replace the roof on the house until the garage was done and have everything roofed at the same time so everything matched.  Worked out great and are very happy with the dimensioned shingles. 

 

 

[CAPE]

34 minutes ago, mattie g said:

Speaking of wisdom teeth...I’ve had mine since I was 14. Went to a new dentist when I had just graduated college, and he said “it looks like your wisdom teeth are coming in” and claimed I needed to have them out. F’ing shyster.

Waited 18 years to go back to a dentist after that.  

I wont say how long its been for me lol. I take care of my teeth, and almost never eat anything sweet. I do love dark chocolate- 85% cacao or higher I will eat. I really hate sugary sweet stuff though. Only refined sugar I consume is "accidental" lol.

[RDM]

HighStakes,

Great point about the drip edge.  That's one item that can set roofers apart and any reputable roofer will always install/replace the drip edge  Without it, moisture will wick into the edge of the sheathing where exposed.  Need it on all the edges of a roof.  Not just on the eave by the gutter, but along the rake of the roof too from gutter up to the ridge. 

Likewise, good point on the ridge vent.  Although, if a roof does not have soffit vents the utility of ridge vents is reduced.  Key to how well soffit vents work is to ensure they are not covered with insulation, especially blown in insulation which often blocks the air flow from the soffit into the attic.

[Stormpc]

Drip edge and ice and water shield are mandatory per building code in most locations now. Great advice from everyone. 

[nw baltimore wx]

I am so glad that I asked about my roof!  Thanks for all the great advice!  Sounds like I have to wait until spring, but I'll have to temporarily fix a leak in my garage.  It only leaks during heavy rain and I think I have it localized to a chase that runs perpendicular to the slope of the roof (less than 18").  I'll have to find some way to divert the runoff so it doesn't come straight down the approximate 8 foot run and hit the chase at 90 degrees.

I'll definitely go with architectural shingles and drip edge, rubber liner on at least the small flat portion.  Thanks again, and if I have specific questions, I'll pm.

 

1 hour ago, Stormpc said:

As far as roof pricing, complete job, will cost between 400 and 500 per square. Do not pay any more. That's on the high end. Some proficient roofing contractors are closer to 350 per square. Also, wait till Spring. You don't want to do a roof with temps 50s or below. Good luck. 

 

25 minutes ago, HighStakes said:

You definitely want to go with an architectural shingle. GAF timberline HD is the big seller at the moment. Certainteed Landmark also is big and is heavier weight per square than GAF. 3 estimates should be fine...

Ive been in the business for over 20 years and my father for over 50 years so we've seen it all. Good luck  and if you need anymore info. please feel free to message me.

 

16 minutes ago, RDM said:

Totally agree about waiting till spring.  The warmer the temps the better, and hot weather is the best.  If too cool/cold, the shingles are hard to work with without cracking.  Plus the hot weather serves to set/seal the adhesive on the back side to seal them...

 

[wxdude64]

My roof is 21 years old, so this is a great read for me! Was thinking metal for a while, still debating. Have a 9/12 pitch and basically a two story house, so it WON'T be done by me.

[showmethesnow]

@HighStakes @RDM

Great write ups by both of you.

As far as the spring time that has been thrown out there. One word of caution is to make sure that the roof will actually be done during a good stretch of weather. Nothing worse then having the old roof torn off only to have rain settle in. Have seen and heard several instances where this has happened. Contractor friend from camp related to me a story of how they took off the old roof a couple of years ago only to have unpredicted rain come in shortly afterwards and precede to settle in for a long stretch of time (2 weeks or so before they could get back up to finish the job). He was pretty much scrambling to get the tar paper down and tarps to cover the roof. To make matters only worse it was a quite windy period of time as well and he was constantly having to go up and check the coverings.

HIghstakes, a question if you don't mind. Do contractors work with a flex pricing dependent on seasonal demand?

[showmethesnow]

30 minutes ago, wxdude64 said:

My roof is 21 years old, so this is a great read for me! Was thinking metal for a while, still debating. Have a 9/12 pitch and basically a two story house, so it WON'T be done by me.

Come on, that's a piece of cake. Be the happy homemaker. 

Really don't know much about metal roofing but I have talked to people that swear by them, for whatever that is worth.

[wxdude64]

6 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Come on, that's a piece of cake. Be the happy homemaker. 

Really don't know much about metal roofing but I have talked to people that swear by them, for whatever that is worth.

Knowing my luck it would become the 'injured homemaker'........

Now in my 'younger' years when we had kids around I would climb up there and hang Christmas lights, but that was 10+ years ago.

[RDM]

12 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

@HighStakes @RDM

Great write ups by both of you.

As far as the spring time that has been thrown out there. One word of caution is to make sure that the roof will actually be done during a good stretch of weather. Nothing worse then having the old roof torn off only to have rain settle in. Have seen and heard several instances where this has happened. Contractor friend from camp related to me a story of how they took off the old roof a couple of years ago only to have unpredicted rain come in shortly afterwards and precede to settle in for a long stretch of time (2 weeks or so before they could get back up to finish the job). He was pretty much scrambling to get the tar paper down and tarps to cover the roof. To make matters only worse it was a quite windy period of time as well and he was constantly having to go up and check the coverings.

HIghstakes, a question if you don't mind. Do contractors work with a flex pricing dependent on seasonal demand?

Thanks showme - good point as well re the weather.  Even in warm/hot weather it can take a while for the adhesive on the underside of the shingles to set in.  Ideally, several days of really hot weather is desirable.  However, there's many other factors that come to play.  Pitch, sun angle, type/weight of the shingles.  The longer the rating of the shingles the heavier they are and the more resistant to wind. 

Wxdude64 - your mention of a metal roof brought back memories from Jr. High.  Spent several days of one summer on my neighbor's roof helping his scrape and repaint the standing seam metal roof on his house.  Earned a few bucks and on key lesson in life.  That being - I didn't want to do that for a living.  Hot does not describe it adequately.  The only comparable experience of heat I can compare it to was stacking bails of hay in the barn loft with outside temps in the mid-90's (also a summer job one year) or 3 summers living in New Delhi, India where we had weeks on end around 48C, and one stretch that topped out at 53C.  Ambient water in the shade was hotter than you could stand to take a shower in.

  None the less, modern metal roofs often incorporate maintenance free coatings and some have 100 yr ratings.  So while they are expensive, they do have an appeal factor for many. 

 

[nw baltimore wx]

I worked on a farm during a summer and hay bales were the worst. In the fields I had to walk behind the tractor and toss the bales onto the trailing wagon, then unload them from the wagon to the loft. For a skinny, under-sized, sinus-suffering high school punk, it was one of the best jobs you could have to make you understand hard work. But I'm grateful I never did roofing.

[showmethesnow]

 

7 minutes ago, RDM said:

Thanks showme - good point as well re the weather.  Even in warm/hot weather it can take a while for the adhesive on the underside of the shingles to set in.  Ideally, several days of really hot weather is desirable.  However, there's many other factors that come to play.  Pitch, sun angle, type/weight of the shingles.  The longer the rating of the shingles the heavier they are and the more resistant to wind. 

Wxdude64 - your mention of a metal roof brought back memories from Jr. High.  Spent several days of one summer on my neighbor's roof helping his scrape and repaint the standing seam metal roof on his house.  Earned a few bucks and on key lesson in life.  That being - I didn't want to do that for a living.  Hot does not describe it adequately.  The only comparable experience of heat I can compare it to was stacking bails of hay in the barn loft with outside temps in the mid-90's (also a summer job one year) or 3 summers living in New Delhi, India where we had weeks on end around 48C, and one stretch that topped out at 53C.  Ambient water in the shade was hotter than you could stand to take a shower in.

  None the less, modern metal roofs often incorporate maintenance free coatings and some have 100 yr ratings.  So while they are expensive, they do have an appeal factor for many. 

 

Helped do my fathers roof in southern California one summer. He basically lived just outside of what is considered the upper desert. Was a flat roof so we were going with a hot tar and gravel roof (not sure exactly what that type of roofing is called). The heat was unbearable. Needless to say I didn't step up onto another roof for quite a few years afterwards. 

[showmethesnow]

20 minutes ago, wxdude64 said:

Knowing my luck it would become the 'injured homemaker'........

Now in my 'younger' years when we had kids around I would climb up there and hang Christmas lights, but that was 10+ years ago.

Probably for the best you don't. But if you do decide to do it on your own (And God knows I have done some stupid things to save money) please let me know. I would like to get in on the Life Insurance lottery. 

[showmethesnow]

4 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

I worked on a farm during a summer and hay bales were the worst. In the fields I had to walk behind the tractor and toss the bales onto the trailing wagon, then unload them from the wagon to the loft. For a skinny, under-sized, sinus-suffering high school punk, it was one of the best jobs you could have to make you understand hard work. But I'm grateful I never did roofing.

Glad to see I am not the only one who has dealt with hay bales. It was hard work but I actually didn't mind it to much. Some of my fondest memories revolve around those bales though. As children we used to stack them up and make forts with them in the barn. Not to mention we had ropes we could swing on from fort to fort. Great times.

[RDM]

5 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

Glad to see I am not the only one who has dealt with hay bales. It was hard work but I actually didn't mind it to much. Some of my fondest memories revolve around those bales though. As children we used to stack them up and make forts with them in the barn. Not to mention we had ropes we could swing on from fort to fort. Great times.

Ditto on the memories and making forts with hay bales and doing other things that young kids do.  Certainly got an appreciation for hard work out of it and learned what it took to "do things and fix things" - be it on a farm (not ours) or just in general.   It was never a matter of IF we were going to get a summer job, it was WHAT we were going to do, or what we could find to do in order to earn some spending money.  Didn't get handouts like many get today.  Not sure our younger generation as a whole has the same perspective.

I started my "professional career" with a paper route at 10 in the 5th grade.  Got special permission because the rules said you had to be 11 to have a route.  Did that 5 years and saw all sorts of things.  Saturday was collection day and Sunday morning was early rise and shine.  Never got to sleep in late on a Sunday for 5 years...  Delivered papers several times with a sled with temps below 0F because the snow was too deep or too dangerous to try and ride a bike loaded with 50+ lbs of papers (Sundays were the worse because of all the advertisements).  Learned what a Jebwalk was like while developing an appreciation for extreme weather and the worse Mother Nature can muster.  

The paper route was on top of cutting grass, bailing, plowing snow with my dad's Gravely or doing whatever I could find.  Very fond memories on all topics...

[Bob Chill]

Stating the obvious but roof jobs have 2 key components (materials and labor). Always choose your materials first and get quotes from a supplier. There are a lot of tricks you can find online to get a good estimate of how much the real cost of materials is going to be. Contractors can play all kinds of #'s games. Personally, I had no problem paying for more costly materials. I chose Tamko Heritage Architectural w/ the extra goodies for ice dam protection and a ridge vent for my house when I got the roof done in 2006. 11 years later and my roof looks brand new. Never a single leak. There are a lot of choices though. I haven't a clue how Tamko stacks up to current products. 

My roof threw a bit of a curve because my house was built in 1967 and the owner did a "second layer" roof so I had 2 layers of shingles to remove. Once stripped, soft plywood was evident. I didn't hold back there. I got up on the roof with my contractor and walked the entire thing (I have relatively low pitch so not scary). We inspected each sheet and marked the ones to be replaced. Ended up being a total of 17 sheets but cutting that corner is really dumb. It's one of the few times to fix everything about the sub roof. I chose to get it done right but it was NOT CHEAP. lol. 

In the end did I probably pay more than I should have? Yes, I probably did but if there is one place to splurge a little on materials and workmanship, the roof is a top contender. I have no regrets whatsoever. 

[leo2000]

4 hours ago, mappy said:

Thanks! 

Ha, they did. Helps a lot but only taking them at night now. 

Ugggh. Only two of mine were impacted and the swelling from that side is awful. Could not imagine all four. 

Hahaha I wish. 

I apologize only two were impacted too at the age of 33 trying to get them out lol. 

[mitchnick]

1 hour ago, Bob Chill said:

Stating the obvious but roof jobs have 2 key components (materials and labor). Always choose your materials first and get quotes from a supplier. There are a lot of tricks you can find online to get a good estimate of how much the real cost of materials is going to be. Contractors can play all kinds of #'s games. Personally, I had no problem paying for more costly materials. I chose Tamko Heritage Architectural w/ the extra goodies for ice dam protection and a ridge vent for my house when I got the roof done in 2006. 11 years later and my roof looks brand new. Never a single leak. There are a lot of choices though. I haven't a clue how Tamko stacks up to current products. 

My roof threw a bit of a curve because my house was built in 1967 and the owner did a "second layer" roof so I had 2 layers of shingles to remove. Once stripped, soft plywood was evident. I didn't hold back there. I got up on the roof with my contractor and walked the entire thing (I have relatively low pitch so not scary). We inspected each sheet and marked the ones to be replaced. Ended up being a total of 17 sheets but cutting that corner is really dumb. It's one of the few times to fix everything about the sub roof. I chose to get it done right but it was NOT CHEAP. lol. 

In the end did I probably pay more than I should have? Yes, I probably did but if there is one place to splurge a little on materials and workmanship, the roof is a top contender. I have no regrets whatsoever. 

I got the mid grade architectural shingles in 2007 (no idea the brand but they were 30 year rated I believe) and it still looks great except for slight color changes on the north side because it's the north side. No leaks either here. I did notice that the roof was a lot quieter when it rained vs. original shingles. 

[ErinInTheSky]

Power is QUITE annoyingly out in my part of Gaithersburg. Trying to figure out how widespread it is.

 

Heck of a time to learn that my central heating doesn't work without power in my APT.

[HighStakes]

3 hours ago, showmethesnow said:

@HighStakes @RDM

Great write ups by both of you.

As far as the spring time that has been thrown out there. One word of caution is to make sure that the roof will actually be done during a good stretch of weather. Nothing worse then having the old roof torn off only to have rain settle in. Have seen and heard several instances where this has happened. Contractor friend from camp related to me a story of how they took off the old roof a couple of years ago only to have unpredicted rain come in shortly afterwards and precede to settle in for a long stretch of time (2 weeks or so before they could get back up to finish the job). He was pretty much scrambling to get the tar paper down and tarps to cover the roof. To make matters only worse it was a quite windy period of time as well and he was constantly having to go up and check the coverings.

HIghstakes, a question if you don't mind. Do contractors work with a flex pricing dependent on seasonal demand?

Most contractors will adjust pricing according to the season. A lot of companies get desperate for work during winter so the customer is more likely to get a good or better deal. They need to find a way to keep the installers busy. This is especially true with the high price companies. Plus they have a lot more wiggle room. Smaller solid companies tend to keep the pricing consistent regardless of season.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:39 AM, WxWatcher007 said:

My gf is a general in this great war...leading people into battle when anything related to Christmas shows up before or during Thanksgiving. 

I feel the same!  No Christmas decorations until at least Thanksgiving Day is past (at least wait until that weekend!).  Heck, I saw Halloween and Christmas stuff on display at a CVS a few weeks ago.  Kind of...macabre, I think is the right word here...to see various displays of ghouls along side Santa Clauses, to say the least!  I mean, really?!

 

On 11/10/2017 at 11:43 AM, WxUSAF said:

I salute her!

Same here!

[Jebman]

Chilly night in store, but with a considerable overcast of cirrus overhead, I dont expect as cold as last night, probably lows 28-36 tonight.