NNE Fall Thread

[powderfreak]

55 minutes ago, borderwx said:

Woke up to 4" with another 2" throughout the day here. Bottom is now falling on the thermo, 15F and descending. 

Nice pics everyone 

 

Now winter is really here!  Welcome back man, how was your summer!?

[backedgeapproaching]

Meanwhile down here in the tropics, last week I was up at Stratton and on my drive up they were getting the final mow/brush cutting in around 1500- 2000ft with those big tractors..lol. Different world.

I mean maybe a few inches up high above 2K for all of NOV.  1.3" at the 1800ft COOP in Peru VT. With negative departures, you would have thought we would have scored something, at least in elevation spots more than 1".

[PowderBeard]

Going to skin an early lap or two at Stowe tomorrow. Looking forward to it!

[CoastalWx]

45 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Meanwhile down here in the tropics, last week I was up at Stratton and on my drive up they were getting the final mow/brush cutting in around 1500- 2000ft with those big tractors..lol. Different world.

I mean maybe a few inches up high above 2K for all of NOV.  1.3" at the 1800ft COOP in Peru VT. With negative departures, you would have thought we would have scored something, at least in elevation spots more than 1".

It's the picnic table CJ since last year. PF basically pouring salt on everyone W-S-E of Stowe. 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

Looks like Stowe is at 33" , Bretton Woods 13" on the year.

Nothing that abnormal.

I know powderfreak doesn't like this broadcast too much lol.

Its just damn near impossible to out snow a place that has a FLOOR of 125" a year in upslope (sometimes much more) (This is at 3k') , then add in synoptic snows and sometimes much more enhancment and ya this doesn't include the benefits to skiers of daily refreshers or the refreshers on back end of many cutters. 

I need to set up a yurt at like 3K in Belvedere or Lowell someplace

Just look at the average snow at the snow stake on Mansfield, they crush it 90% -95 of years.

Ya ya i know the whites get upslope but sans Washington (where people live/Ski) its a fraction of N. GREENS upslope

[CoastalWx]

3 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Looks like Stowe is at 33" , Bretton Woods 13" on the year.

Nothing that abnormal.

I know powderfreak doesn't like this broadcast too much lol.

Its just damn near impossible to out snow a place that has a FLOOR of 125" a year in upslope (sometimes much more) (This is at 3k') , then add in synoptic snows and sometimes much more enhancment and ya this doesn't include the benefits to skiers of daily refreshers or the refreshers on back end of many cutters. 

I need to set up a yurt at like 3K in Belvedere or Lowell someplace

Just look at the average snow at the snow stake on Mansfield, they crush it 90% -95 of years.

33? They had 19 prior to the other day? 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

5 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

 33? They had 19 prior to the othhowday?  

Scott

Its every single year. I guess not everyone pays attention to How easily they see Snow as long as a moose Farts Facing E

I beleive they Average 40% more than Wildcat/Bretton woods

315 To 220 Or so

And its not just fluff

[powderfreak]

2 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

It's the picnic table CJ since last year. PF basically pouring salt on everyone W-S-E of Stowe. 

lol a bunch of us have been talking about how since the start of last winter, the northern Greens have been doing "what we were used to them doing"... but they seemed to take a break from like 2013-2016.  Like 2013-14 it just seemed like every set-up under-performed...even 2014-15 was decent but cold and wasn't a ridiculous season for upslope... then 2015-16 worst on record... but last year it came back and this November seems to keep that rolling.

It is very interesting to me in figuring out why these things work and why they sometimes don't...but they certainly have like a seasonal tendency which is odd.  Like 2011-12 was a terrible synoptic snow year but the upslope always seemed to pull through.  Like 6"+ after ever rain event. 

 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

What was worst on Record at 3k

170? And that does not include what fell prior to opening or after closing?

[powderfreak]

9 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

33? They had 19 prior to the other day? 

Jay...50"

Smuggs...32"

Stowe...33"

I wish Bolton was reporting daily as I bet they are within a couple inches either side of us.

First column is 6am base area temperature at Snowmaking Control.  Second number is the 1500ft snowfall and then you have 3000ft snowfall.  Tomorrow morning's entry will have 2-3" added to it if we don't have anything further overnight.

 

[CoastalWx]

1 minute ago, powderfreak said:

Jay...50"

Smuggs...32"

Stowe...33"

I wish Bolton was reporting daily as I bet they are within a couple inches either side of us.

First column is 6am base area temperature at Snowmaking Control.  Second number is the 1500ft snowfall and then you have 3000ft snowfall.  Tomorrow morning's entry will have 2-3" added to it if we don't have anything further overnight.

 

Well Jay is BS so I toss that. Nice start then. Had no idea you had 19" already. 

[CoastalWx]

9 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

Scott

Its every single year. I guess not everyone pays attention to How easily they see Snow as long as a moose Farts Facing E

I beleive they Average 40% more than Wildcat/Bretton woods

315 To 220 Or so

And its not just fluff

You have a raging pants tent for 3K. 

[STILL N OF PIKE]

I do

Any snow lover should 

If you stayed on the mountain, you and Tim Kelly would be doing nude snow angels outside at ...3K lol

[powderfreak]

Just now, STILL N OF PIKE said:

What was worst on Record at 3k

170?

156" last winter is the lowest we've got on record. 

 

 

[powderfreak]

13 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

You have a raging pants tent for 3K. 

I've discussed this with adk before but I've really been drawn to 1,500ft at the base of the mountain... that's a good barometer for how things are because its the lowest possible snow total on the mountain.  Of course there are those elevation events where you get a sloppy inch at 1,500ft and 6-7" of paste at 3,000ft... but on the whole, the base of the ski resort is still an incredibly snowy spot for 1,500ft.  You can envision yourself living there too... its high up but because of all the base development its more like one of those spots that's about as high a snowfall for an inhabited area as you can get. 

 

[powderfreak]

17 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Well Jay is BS so I toss that. Nice start then. Had no idea you had 19" already. 

Just think about how many minor events we've had (say J.Spin, Alex and myself) this month... I haven't had much but at least 4 different accumulating events and the ground has been white quite a bit.  Heck I mean J.Spin has to be in double digits for the season too.  Before these past two days, the other decent event was that true surprise snow event with 1-2"/hr for a bit that afternoon.  Every like 0.8" here can be 3-7" a few miles away and thousands of feet higher.
 

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Meanwhile down here in the tropics, last week I was up at Stratton and on my drive up they were getting the final mow/brush cutting in around 1500- 2000ft with those big tractors..lol. Different world.

I mean maybe a few inches up high above 2K for all of NOV.  1.3" at the 1800ft COOP in Peru VT. With negative departures, you would have thought we would have scored something, at least in elevation spots more than 1".

That is pretty incredible, given the negative departures that even at elevation in the southern Greens hasn't had anything. 

I've got 3-4" in my yard right now at 700ft from this event, which doesn't sound like much but when you think its more snow on the ground than Killington's web cams show at even 3,000ft there...its a pretty crazy the gradient.  Like boarderwx posted he got about 6" from this event and he's out away from the Spine quite a bit.  The Underhill CoCoRAHS sites both picked up 6" last night and they are at or below 1,000ft, not to mention whatever they received today.

When I left this afternoon and checked the 1,500ft stake, I snapped a couple photos... there's a 10" snow depth at 1,500ft.  That's not 10" cumulative snow this month but 10" of depth.  The top is fluff but there's some decent density in the bottom 6".

[mreaves]

7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

That is pretty incredible, given the negative departures that even at elevation in the southern Greens hasn't had anything. 

I've got 3-4" in my yard right now at 700ft from this event, which doesn't sound like much but when you think its more snow on the ground than Killington's web cams show at even 3,000ft there...its a pretty crazy the gradient.  Like boarderwx posted he got about 6" from this event and he's out away from the Spine quite a bit.  The Underhill CoCoRAHS sites both picked up 6" last night and they are at or below 1,000ft, not to mention whatever they received today.

When I left this afternoon and checked the 1,500ft stake, I snapped a couple photos... there's a 10" snow depth at 1,500ft.  That's not 10" cumulative snow this month but 10" of depth.

 

I've got about half of what you have in my yard.  Its enough to solidly cover the lawn with very little grass poking through.  Gets pretty stark not too far south of here on 89.  Not a lot on the ground south of exit 5.  Currently 14F  Wintry appeal

[CoastalWx]

30 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Just think about how many minor events we've had (say J.Spin, Alex and myself) this month... I haven't had much but at least 4 different accumulating events and the ground has been white quite a bit.  Heck I mean J.Spin has to be in double digits for the season too.  Before these past two days, the other decent event was that true surprise snow event with 1-2"/hr for a bit that afternoon.  Every like 0.8" here can be 3-7" a few miles away and thousands of feet higher.
 

I knew you had a bunch, just didn't know it was 19" there already. Your own private weenie party. 

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 4.6” Snow/0.17” L.E.

 

Details from the 7:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 1.5 inches

New Liquid: 0.03 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 50.0

Snow Density: 2.0% H2O

Temperature: 19.6 F

Sky: Light Snow (2-15 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 4.5 inches

[powderfreak]

19 minutes ago, mreaves said:

I've got about half of what you have in my yard.  Its enough to solidly cover the lawn with very little grass poking through.  Gets pretty stark not too far south of here on 89.  Not a lot on the ground south of exit 5.  Currently 14F  Wintry appeal

Yeah I love that look you described in November with cold temps.  It's enough to cause temps to drop and that real crisp feeling outside at night.

[J.Spin]

46 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Just think about how many minor events we've had (say J.Spin, Alex and myself) this month... I haven't had much but at least 4 different accumulating events and the ground has been white quite a bit.  Heck I mean J.Spin has to be in double digits for the season too. 

 

Yeah, 15.8” on the season as of today.  In terms of snowfall we’re not quite into the upper echelon of Novembers like 2007, 2008, or 2014, but we’re guaranteed to come in above average now.  With this event though, this season has now had eight accumulating snow events here, which is higher than in any season I’ve recorded up to this point.

[adk]

PF and J.Spin -  what's your data say about 2013-2014.  I have that in my notes as the most fun November skiing I've ever had.  I recall a very large mid-november upslope dump before opening day and then around Thanksgiving one or two over performing fronts...I remember being in the middle of a crazy trial and flying around taking depositions but still managing to ski like 16 days from November 10-30.

[borderwx]

12 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Now winter is really here!  Welcome back man, how was your summer!?

To fast PF! Running a 9 year old through the lakes and mountains burns time quickly

Woodstove cranking, skis and bikes have switched spots in the garage, we are buttoned up, bring it old man winter!

Apparently the world moved on and I didn't keep up.  How are you all posting pics these days?

[alex]

Hello NNE brethren! Taking a quick break from my crazy work week. Question for my fake snow peeps - seems like things are going to turn cold and boring. Does that preclude chances of upslope? With a cold pattern, the frequent 1-2 inchers can really add up and would be awesome to open up some glades... but not sure how realistic that is in a suppressed pattern! Just don't have enough experience with the area yet (or with meteorology for that matter) to understand... 

Thanks! 

[J.Spin]

8 hours ago, adk said:

PF and J.Spin -  what's your data say about 2013-2014.  I have that in my notes as the most fun November skiing I've ever had.  I recall a very large mid-november upslope dump before opening day and then around Thanksgiving one or two over performing fronts...I remember being in the middle of a crazy trial and flying around taking depositions but still managing to ski like 16 days from November 10-30.

 

At first glance I thought you were inquiring about 2014-2015, since that November was quite good in terms of snowfall at my place, but the November from 2013-2014 was also good.  Snowfall that November was 17.7” down at the house, which sits in 4^th place as Novembers go.  My records also show seven accumulating snow events in the valley for November 2013, which is coincidentally tied with November 2014.  Those seasons had set the mark for most storms until this November took over the top spot.

 

In terms of accumulating storms at my place for November 2013, here are the storm start dates, accumulations, and descriptions:

 

1. 11/8 – 0.3” - Weak upper air disturbances with northwest upslope flow

2. 11/9 – 1.7” - Clipper system moving through southern Quebec

3. 11/11 – 1.7” - Cold frontal passage + continued cold air advection and northwest upslope flow

4. 11/17 – 0.7” - Cold front passage after warm system passing off to the northwest

5. 11/22 – 1.0” - Warm frontal system, sleet & mixed on front end, then cold front

6. 11/23 – 4.1” - Alberta Clipper with strong cold behind it

7. 11/26 – 8.2” - Coastal system moving up through New England - "sandwich" storm

 

Obviously the most potent storms of the month in the valley were those last two, but l can see how you might have had so many days – even some of those more minor events went off in the mountains.

 

For storm #3 in my list, it looks like the mountains pulled in 12-18”, with some dense snow that basically set things up wall to wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

That snow clearly stayed in prime shape for a while (with some reinforcing inches), because I was out for another tour two days later, and conditions were still great.  I was even felt comfortable enough with the state of the snowpack to ski Goat:

 

 

 

It’s interesting, I had four additional outings that month, still mostly with powder, but even though those later storms resulted in stronger accumulations in the valleys, I’m not seeing the ridiculous coverage that we had in that earlier stretch.

[OceanStWx]

1 hour ago, alex said:

Hello NNE brethren! Taking a quick break from my crazy work week. Question for my fake snow peeps - seems like things are going to turn cold and boring. Does that preclude chances of upslope? With a cold pattern, the frequent 1-2 inchers can really add up and would be awesome to open up some glades... but not sure how realistic that is in a suppressed pattern! Just don't have enough experience with the area yet (or with meteorology for that matter) to understand... 

Thanks! 

Here is our local research: http://www.weather.gov/media/erh/ta2009-03.pdf

I would say no need to fret. What you're generally looking for is cyclonic flow over the mountains, high low level RH, and -10C tickling the tops of the mountains. For our area the more cyclonic flow (i.e. NW) the better, as the picnic tables won't rob the moisture first.

[alex]

19 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Here is our local research: http://www.weather.gov/media/erh/ta2009-03.pdf

I would say no need to fret. What you're generally looking for is cyclonic flow over the mountains, high low level RH, and -10C tickling the tops of the mountains. For our area the more cyclonic flow (i.e. NW) the better, as the picnic tables won't rob the moisture first.

Thanks!

[J.Spin]

I’ve checked on the snow totals from the Vermont ski areas for the past 48-72 hours, and they’re listed north to south below.  In general I used the 72-hour total if posted, or values from the report text if that wasn’t available.

 

Jay Peak: 22”

Smuggler’s Notch: 13”

Stowe: 15”

Bolton Valley: 10”

Sugarbush: 1”

Killington: 0”

Okemo: 0”

Stratton: 0”

Mount Snow: 1”

 

I’m not sure why Sugarbush revised their total down to 1” from the 3” they noted previously, but it makes the snowfall gradient look even more extreme south of the Northern Greens.

[eyewall]

I was intending to fly today but the winds were too strong unfortunately. I saw some beautiful snowscapes though and caught this from the ground: