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Christmas Storm IV


Cold Rain

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ILM....

.LONG TERM /SATURDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --AS OF 3 PM WEDNESDAY...ITCHING TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE EXTENDED

FORECAST ESPECIALLY FOR THE WEEKEND BUT WILL BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR

THE MODELS TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THE UPCOMING WEEKEND STORM OFF

THE COAST. MODELS ARE STARTING TO GET A HANDLE ON THE SITUATION BUT

STILL TOO EARLY AS SYSTEM THAT WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STORM IS

COMING ONSHORE ACROSS THE WEST COAST AND WILL FEEL BETTER WITH

ADDITIONAL MODEL RUNS TO INCORPORATE LATEST UPPER AIR DATA THAT IS

LACKING FROM THE PACIFIC THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD TO A BETTER

ANALYSIS DOWNSTREAM. EUROPEAN...GFS...AND CANADIAN MODELS DO SHOW

THE SYSTEM BOMBING OFF THE SOUTHEAST COAST ON SATURDAY. MAJOR

QUESTIONS TO ANSWER WILL BE THE TRACK OF THE SYSTEM...TIMING OF THE

COLD AIR SURGING INTO THE REGION AS THE STORM PULLS ON BY THE COAST

AND WHETHER ENOUGH MOISTURE REMAINS OVER THE REGION AS THE COLD AIR

MOVES IN. RIGHT NOW I AM HEDGING TOWARDS SNOW ACROSS THE INLAND

AREAS OF THE CWA TO OUR WEST AND NORTHWEST WITH A GRADUAL CHANGEOVER

ON THE COAST SATURDAY MORNING. I CANNOT RULE OUT ACCUMULATING SNOWS

TO THE COAST AND WILL MENTION SNOW IN THE FORECAST AND HIGHLIGHT IN

THE HWO...NO SURE OF THE AMOUNTS YET. GUIDANCE HAS SHIFTED BACK AND

FORTH ON MAX TEMPS FOR THE WEEKEND BUT I THINK AS WE GET MORE

ANALYSIS INTO THE MODELS FROM THE WEST COAST SYSTEM THE MODELS WILL

START TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THIS AS WELL. I WILL UNDERCUT

GUIDANCE AND START HEDGING TOWARD A COLDER SOLUTION FOR SATURDAY.

BEHIND THIS SYSTEM WILL BE YET ANOTHER SURGE OF COLD ARCTIC AIR

THAT WILL MOVE INTO THE REGION BY LARGE 5H TROF. WITH A DRIER ARCTIC

AIR MASS WE WILL REMAIN DRY BUT COLD...WELL BELOW CLIMO. EXTENDED

MOS NUMBERS AREA RIGHT AROUND 40 AND LIKELY BIAS IN FAVOR OF

CLIMO...SUGGESTING HIGHS IN THE MID TO UPPER 30S AND LOWS IN THE

TEENS. WITH US ENTERING THE LAST WEEK OF DECEMBER WE CAN POSSIBLY GO

DOWN ON RECORD AS THE COLDEST DECEMBER EVER IN WILMINGTON...RIGHT

NOW WE ARE IN THE TOP 3.-- End Changed Discussion --

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My afternoon update and some comments on the 12z ECMWF Ensembles

What do you think for Athens Ga? We may get a little less than central Georgia??

I sometimes think you are a little slow. I talk about athens all the time, so does everyone else so it makes no sense that you have always come on here and asked this question when it's already been discussed. Enough of this, if you want to ask this question go to the other thread. In my back yard questions here are going to be deleted and repeated offenders given a break.

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Yeah but here is DTs take on the very thing we are talking about. GFS/Euro

Look, right now I am more inclined to lean heavily towards the EURO. I have been following models for a long time and cannot remember ever seeing such an extreme solution models almost the same six times in a row. I am just saying I can see where the NWS is coming from as far as being on the cautious side with three days left.

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ilm afd....

LONG TERM /SATURDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...

AS OF 3 PM WEDNESDAY...ITCHING TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE EXTENDED

FORECAST ESPECIALLY FOR THE WEEKEND BUT WILL BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR

THE MODELS TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THE UPCOMING WEEKEND STORM OFF

THE COAST. MODELS ARE STARTING TO GET A HANDLE ON THE SITUATION BUT

STILL TOO EARLY AS SYSTEM THAT WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STORM IS

COMING ONSHORE ACROSS THE WEST COAST AND WILL FEEL BETTER WITH

ADDITIONAL MODEL RUNS TO INCORPORATE LATEST UPPER AIR DATA THAT IS

LACKING FROM THE PACIFIC THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD TO A BETTER

ANALYSIS DOWNSTREAM. EUROPEAN...GFS...AND CANADIAN MODELS DO SHOW

THE SYSTEM BOMBING OFF THE SOUTHEAST COAST ON SATURDAY. MAJOR

QUESTIONS TO ANSWER WILL BE THE TRACK OF THE SYSTEM...TIMING OF THE

COLD AIR SURGING INTO THE REGION AS THE STORM PULLS ON BY THE COAST

AND WHETHER ENOUGH MOISTURE REMAINS OVER THE REGION AS THE COLD AIR

MOVES IN. RIGHT NOW I AM HEDGING TOWARDS SNOW ACROSS THE INLAND

AREAS OF THE CWA TO OUR WEST AND NORTHWEST WITH A GRADUAL CHANGEOVER

ON THE COAST SATURDAY MORNING. I CANNOT RULE OUT ACCUMULATING SNOWS

TO THE COAST AND WILL MENTION SNOW IN THE FORECAST AND HIGHLIGHT IN

THE HWO...NO SURE OF THE AMOUNTS YET. GUIDANCE HAS SHIFTED BACK AND

FORTH ON MAX TEMPS FOR THE WEEKEND BUT I THINK AS WE GET MORE

ANALYSIS INTO THE MODELS FROM THE WEST COAST SYSTEM THE MODELS WILL

START TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THIS AS WELL. I WILL UNDERCUT

GUIDANCE AND START HEDGING TOWARD A COLDER SOLUTION FOR SATURDAY.

BEHIND THIS SYSTEM WILL BE YET ANOTHER SURGE OF COLD ARCTIC AIR

THAT WILL MOVE INTO THE REGION BY LARGE 5H TROF. WITH A DRIER ARCTIC

AIR MASS WE WILL REMAIN DRY BUT COLD...WELL BELOW CLIMO. EXTENDED

MOS NUMBERS AREA RIGHT AROUND 40 AND LIKELY BIAS IN FAVOR OF

CLIMO...SUGGESTING HIGHS IN THE MID TO UPPER 30S AND LOWS IN THE

TEENS. WITH US ENTERING THE LAST WEEK OF DECEMBER WE CAN POSSIBLY GO

DOWN ON RECORD AS THE COLDEST DECEMBER EVER IN WILMINGTON...RIGHT

NOW WE ARE IN THE TOP 3.

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I'm hoping the phase does happen as early as possible, somewhere in the northern gulf because frankly, my experience living in Charlotte the last 20 years has shown me that the rap around/Atlantic moisture doesn't work out this far west. If we're going to get a good amount of QPF, we need it from the gulf while the LOW is to our SW throwing moisture northeast. That's just what I've seen in the past, I could be wrong. Maybe this storm could be so strong as to get good QPF that far west from the Atlantic but I'm so very skeptical of that happening. Maybe some mets can educate me on how strong the storm would need to be for Charlotte metro to get in on some Atlantic banding when the LOW bombs off the coast? But I'm guessing it would HAVE to be the historic storm shown on EURO. Thanks.

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Bit of a warm up ahead of the storm on this run -- at 60 hours, 850s above 0 in all of S.C.and much of southern half of Tenn. Sure it's not an issue though once low cranks up.

Don't worry, 850mb is very dry ahead of this system and once the precip starts it will cool to it's wetbulb..then there will be caa to boot.

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A quick note as everyone starts posting and dissecting afternoon AFDs...

I would like to point out that while it is easy to be overcritical of the NWS discussions and forecasts, everyone needs to keep in mind that we have some of the best discussions, forecasts, and play-by-plays going on right here. I think the tendency is for people to take the NWS forecast as what actually is going to happen. In reality, we have access to the same information many of the forecasters use (albeit not in such a one-stop shop sort of way).

Also, people get upset when a particular office doesn't "honk the horn" as much as one model or solution would depict. A lot of this comes into the forecasting process and SOP the NWS uses, which essentially "protects" against the forecaster from going all-in for one solution. With time, and as things become more clear, you will see the forecast resemble what you may expect. At the same time, be fully sure that the appropriate EM officials are kept in close contact with what to expect, and can plan accordingly.

Just keep it in mind as we move forward. Remember....we have excellent discussion and dissection of the situation as it unfolds here, so you (everyone) should be well aware of the possibilities regardless of what the NWS official forecast depicts. (end rant)

side note..... Wow (john) can I have my red tag back? thanks!

Excellent post Nate! Great to see you here!

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A quick note as everyone starts posting and dissecting afternoon AFDs...

I would like to point out that while it is easy to be overcritical of the NWS discussions and forecasts, everyone needs to keep in mind that we have some of the best discussions, forecasts, and play-by-plays going on right here. I think the tendency is for people to take the NWS forecast as what actually is going to happen. In reality, we have access to the same information many of the forecasters use (albeit not in such a one-stop shop sort of way).

Also, people get upset when a particular office doesn't "honk the horn" as much as one model or solution would depict. A lot of this comes into the forecasting process and SOP the NWS uses, which essentially "protects" against the forecaster from going all-in for one solution. With time, and as things become more clear, you will see the forecast resemble what you may expect. At the same time, be fully sure that the appropriate EM officials are kept in close contact with what to expect, and can plan accordingly.

Just keep it in mind as we move forward. Remember....we have excellent discussion and dissection of the situation as it unfolds here, so you (everyone) should be well aware of the possibilities regardless of what the NWS official forecast depicts. (end rant)

side note..... Wow (john) can I have my red tag back? thanks!

Nate Hardin? I saw you a few times at met class, but was in Heather's lab class. Good to see you on!

If this thing gets any slower, we're going to be looking at a Boxing Day Snowstorm. I'd prefer to get some Christmas snow, but the more the better, no matter when it occurs. It has seemed that storms have been coming in quicker than expected this year, though, so it will be interesting to see if that occurs with this storm, as well.

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