Hurricanes/Typhoons and Earthquakes/Tremors

[LibertyBell]

I found these articles interesting- I wonder what kind of effect three simultaneous TCs would have?

Scientific validity
Some recent research has found a correlation between a sudden relative spike in atmospheric temperature 2-5 days before an earthquake. It is speculated that this rise is caused by the movement of ions within the earth's crust, related to an oncoming earthquake. However, the atmospheric changes are caused by the earthquake, rather than the earthquake being caused by any change in atmospheric conditions. Furthermore, this relative temperature change would not cause any single recognizable weather pattern that could be labelled "earthquake weather".[6][7]

At the 2011 American Geophysical Union Fall Meeting, Shimon Wdowinski announced an apparent temporal connection between tropical cyclones and earthquakes.[8]

In April 2013, a team of seismologists at the Georgia Institute of Technology re-examined data from the 2011 Virginia earthquake using pattern-recognition software and found a correlation between Hurricane Irene's nearby passage and an unexpected rise in the number of aftershocks.[9]

 

http://www.nature.com/news/hurricane-may-have-triggered-earthquake-aftershocks-1.12839

 

Hurricane Irene, a powerful storm that ran north along the US East Coast four days after a magnitude-5.8 earthquake rattled Virginia in 2011, may have triggered some of that earthquake’s aftershocks, scientists reported today at the annual meeting of the Seismological Society of America in Salt Lake City, Utah.

The rate of aftershocks usually decreases with time, says study leader Zhigang Peng, a seismologist at the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) in Atlanta. But instead of declining in a normal pattern, the rate of aftershocks following the 23 August 2011, earthquake near Mineral, Virginia, increased sharply as Irene passed by.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208121016.htm

 

Source:
University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science
Summary:
A groundbreaking study shows that earthquakes, including the recent 2010 temblors in Haiti and Taiwan, may be triggered by tropical cyclones.

 

https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090610/full/news.2009.561.html

 

Now, scientists in the United States and Taiwan have examined slow earthquake events in eastern Taiwan that occurred between 2002 and 2007. They found that 11 out of 20 slow quakes coincided with typhoons — tropical cyclones that originate in the northwest Pacific Ocean. During typhoons, the atmospheric pressure on land is reduced, and at least in the case of eastern Taiwan, this pressure change seems to be enough to unclamp a fault that is under strain and to cause a fault failure.

"The typhoon is nothing but a little hair trigger," says Alan Linde, a geophysicist at the Carnegie Institution of Washington DC. Linde is one of the authors of the study, which is published in Nature this week1. "It requires just the slightest touch of that trigger and the fault will fail."

.....

Undetected quakes?

It is not yet clear whether similar phenomena are occurring elsewhere in the world. In some regions of the Cascadia fault, which reaches from northern Vancouver Island in Canada to northern California, tremors associated with small seismic slips — known as 'episodic tremor and slip' (ETS) events — occur approximately every 15 months2. Previous studies have shown that ETS events can be triggered by remote earthquakes and by tidal variations3,4.

Although the Cascadia region is not affected by typhoons, it does experience extensive low-pressure atmospheric systems that could produce small stress changes within the crust. These might be similar to those occurring in eastern Taiwan, says Herb Dragert, a geophysicist with the Geological Survey of Canada in Sidney, British Columbia, who was not involved in the study. To date, no one has investigated whether atmospheric pressure changes could be triggering ETS events, says Dragert. But the similarity between this latest study and previous ones, he notes, is that "very small stress changes can initiate this kind of slow slip and slow earthquake phenomenon".
 

 

 

 

[Paragon]

Going to add this here, since it is relevant.

There was a 7.1 earthquake in Mexico City today.   We had an 8.3 right after Irma went through RI and now we have this one following Maria's RI.

https://twitter.com/search?q="Mexico City"&src=tren&data_id=tweet%3A910217328222199810

Also a very minor 3.6 last night in LA.

[Windspeed]

This stuff drives me nuts. Take some geology classes. You might learn something. Like, for example, how 100 mb less of atmospheric pressure versus fault stress and rock deformation pressure is like comparing the weight of a diesel locomotive on a steel rail to a feather.

Yes, the atmosphere can impact geology. It's called weathering; more specifically, ice and water erosion. Ground water at depth can affect faults. Oceanic water contained in subducting slabs influences magma production and volcanics. But...

Tropical or baroclinic low pressure systems do not cause earthquakes.

[Sophisticated Skeptic]

3 minutes ago, Windspeed said:

This stuff drives me nuts. Take some geology classes. You might learn something. Like, for example, how 100 mb less of atmospheric pressure versus fault stress and rock deformation pressure is like comparing the weight of a diesel locomotive on a steel rail to a feather.

Yes, the atmosphere can impact geology. It's called weathering; more specifically, ice and water erosion. Ground water at depth can effect faults. Oceanic water contained in subducting slabs influences magma production and volcanics. But...

Tropical or baroclinic low pressure systems do not cause earthquakes.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they do, you need more research and look full spectrum. 

Solar weather / Solar flares have triggered many earthquakes over the years as well.  Just google it.

All comes down to magnetic effects , pressure related , and even electrical. 

Earth is like a big magnet to the sun.   When you hold 2 magnets together in your hand, what happens ?

a lot to learn there young grasshoppa

 

[jpeters3]

Does anyone have links to the actual peer-reviewed articles that support this science?  I can't seem to find them.  The articles that are posted are not peer-reviewed science.

In any way, I support Windspeed's post.  There is absolutely no connection between TCs and large earthquakes (e.g. the earthquake in Mexico).

[Paragon]

6 minutes ago, Windspeed said:

This stuff drives me nuts. Take some geology classes. You might learn something. Like, for example, how 100 mb less of atmospheric pressure versus fault stress and rock deformation pressure is like comparing the weight of a diesel locomotive on a steel rail to a feather.

Yes, the atmosphere can impact geology. It's called weathering; more specifically, ice and water erosion. Ground water at depth can effect faults. Oceanic water contained in subducting slabs influences magma production and volcanics. But...

Tropical or baroclinic low pressure systems do not cause earthquakes.

 

 

 

Sure there are different types of quakes and some are more prone to being influenced by TC vs others.  Did you read the research?  They were talking about a hair trigger effect.  And of course water can cause quakes too- for example wastewater injection from fracking and dams have both lead to quakes.

I'll thank you not to display your condescending attitude though, I'm sure the researchers who posted the above know far more about geology than you do, my friend.

 

[jpeters3]

1 minute ago, Sophisticated Skeptic said:

 

 

Yes they do, you need more research and look full spectrum. 

Solar weather / Solar flares have triggered many earthquakes over the years as well.  Just google it.

All comes down to magnetic effects , pressure related , and even electrical. 

Earth is like a big magnet to the sun.   When you hold 2 magnets together in your hand, what happens ?

a lot to learn there young grasshoppa

 

You need to start posting some actual peer-reviewed science.  I am an atmos professor, and I have never come across a paper that provides any compelling evidence for any of your claims.

[Paragon]

Just now, jpeters3 said:

Does anyone have links to the actual peer-reviewed articles that support this science?  I can't seem to find them.  The articles that are posted are not peer-reviewed science.

In any way, I support Windspeed's post.  There is absolutely no connection between TCs and large earthquakes (e.g. the earthquake in Mexico).

Nature doesn't qualify as peer-reviewed for you?  Also- they weren't talking about large earthquakes in the research in any case.

[Sophisticated Skeptic]

not everything needs to be peer-reviewed.  or is selected 'not' to be peer-reviewed. 

Otherwise peoples teaching careers are over.

[jpeters3]

Just now, Paragon said:

Nature doesn't qualify as peer-reviewed for you?  Also- they weren't talking about large earthquakes in the research in any case.

What you posted was not an actual peer-reviwed article.  It was a nature "news special."

[jpeters3]

2 minutes ago, Sophisticated Skeptic said:

not everything needs to be peer-reviewed.  or is selected 'not' to be peer-reviewed. 

Otherwise peoples teaching careers are over.

The peer review process ensures credible science.  "Scientific articles" that are not peer reviewed are not considered to be accredited by the scientific community.

 

Consider that, without peer review, I could publish articles on countless BS connections between butterfly migration patterns and megathrust earthquakes.  

[Paragon]

Just now, jpeters3 said:

What you posted was not an actual peer-reviwed article.  It was a nature "news special."

There is a footnote at the end that might be of use.

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833–836 (2009).

Not being a subscriber I don't have access to it

[Paragon]

1 minute ago, jpeters3 said:

The peer review process ensures credible science.  "Scientific articles" that are not peer reviewed are not considered to be accredited by the scientific community.

Completely agree, that's why I'm very selective in what I quote from- Nature, Sci Am (part of the Nature umbrella), Science, etc.

 

The other article has more footnotes

 

https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090610/full/news.2009.561.html

 

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833-836 (2009). | Article |
2. Rogers, G. & Dragert, H. Science 300, 1942-1943 (2003). | Article | ChemPort |
3. Gomberg, J. et al. Science 319, 173 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
4. Rubinstein, J. L., La Rocca, M., Vidale, J. E., Creager, K. C. & Wech, A. G. Science 319, 186-189 (2008). | Article | ChemPort |

[Juliancolton]

The loonies are out in full force.

Can't wait for the YouTube videos tonight claiming Nibiru is behind all of this.

[jpeters3]

1 minute ago, Paragon said:

There is a footnote at the end that might be of use.

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833–836 (2009).

Not being a subscriber I don't have access to it

Ok, I'll give it a look.  They Don't include an article title, which is probably why I missed the reference.

[Windspeed]

 

 

 

 

Yes they do, you need more research and look full spectrum. 

 

Solar weather / Solar flares have triggered many earthquakes over the years as well.  Just google it.

 

All comes down to magnetic effects , pressure related , and even electrical. 

 

Earth is like a big magnet to the sun.   When you hold 2 magnets together in your hand, what happens ?

 

a lot to learn there young grasshoppa

 

 

 

I'm not young and perhaps you need to google some peer-reviewed journals and books on seismicity, internal plate and crustal dynamics instead of spewing off that everything in the solar system caused the earthquake today. It's too much to ask, I know.

 

[Paragon]

1 minute ago, Juliancolton said:

The loonies are out in full force.

Can't wait for the YouTube videos tonight claiming Nibiru is behind all of this.

Huge difference between a fictitious planet and actual research, JC.

[jpeters3]

Here is the abstract:

The connection between typhoons and actual earthquakes seems nebulous at best from reading this.  They are arguing that rainfall can facilitate slow earthquakes (which happen over long periods of time), which have a possible (but unclear) connection to regular earthquakes.
 

The first reports^1, 2 on a slow earthquake were for an event in the Izu peninsula, Japan, on an intraplate, seismically active fault. Since then, many slow earthquakes have been detected^{3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8}. It has been suggested⁹ that the slow events may trigger ordinary earthquakes (in a context supported by numerical modelling¹⁰), but their broader significance in terms of earthquake occurrence remains unclear. Triggering of earthquakes has received much attention: strain diffusion from large regional earthquakes has been shown to influence large earthquake activity^11, 12, and earthquakes may be triggered during the passage of teleseismic waves¹³, a phenomenon now recognized as being common^{14, 15, 16, 17}. Here we show that, in eastern Taiwan, slow earthquakes can be triggered by typhoons. We model the largest of these earthquakes as repeated episodes of slow slip on a reverse fault just under land and dipping to the west; the characteristics of all events are sufficiently similar that they can be modelled with minor variations of the model parameters. Lower pressure results in a very small unclamping of the fault that must be close to the failure condition for the typhoon to act as a trigger. This area experiences very high compressional deformation but has a paucity of large earthquakes; repeating slow events may be segmenting the stressed area and thus inhibiting large earthquakes, which require a long, continuous seismic rupture.

[Paragon]

1 minute ago, jpeters3 said:

Ok, I'll give it a look.  They Don't include an article title, which is probably why I missed the reference.

Thanks, the other one had more references.  If you have access to them that would be awesome (I don't).  Also I tend to agree with you about large quakes and deep quakes and in the research they weren't talking about those, from what I read they were mostly talking about aftershocks and weaker quakes that help relieve the pressure to prevent large Mag 8 quakes from occurring.

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833-836 (2009). | Article |
2. Rogers, G. & Dragert, H. Science 300, 1942-1943 (2003). | Article | ChemPort |
3. Gomberg, J. et al. Science 319, 173 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
4. Rubinstein, J. L., La Rocca, M., Vidale, J. E., Creager, K. C. & Wech, A. G. Science 319, 186-189 (2008). | Article | ChemPort |

[jpeters3]

1 minute ago, Paragon said:

Thanks, the other one had more references.  If you have access to them that would be awesome (I don't).  Also I tend to agree with you about large quakes and deep quakes and in the research they weren't talking about those, from what I read they were mostly talking about aftershocks and weaker quakes that help relieve the pressure to prevent large Mag 8 quakes from occurring.

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833-836 (2009). | Article |
2. Rogers, G. & Dragert, H. Science 300, 1942-1943 (2003). | Article | ChemPort |
3. Gomberg, J. et al. Science 319, 173 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
4. Rubinstein, J. L., La Rocca, M., Vidale, J. E., Creager, K. C. & Wech, A. G. Science 319, 186-189 (2008). | Article | ChemPort |

 

See my above edited post with the abstract.  I don't have access to the actual article, but the abstract seems to clear a few things up.

[Juliancolton]

Just now, Paragon said:

Huge difference between a fictitious planet and actual research, JC.

One person's "research" is another person's confirmation bias.

[Paragon]

Just now, jpeters3 said:

 

See my above edited post with the abstract.  I don't have access to the actual article, but the abstract seems to clear a few things up.

Yes thanks so much for that!

[jpeters3]

To summarize, the abstract does not indicate a direct connection between typhoons and ordinary earthquakes.  Rather, the authors seem to connect rainfall in typhoons to slow earthquakes, and there is a possible (but unproven) connection between slow earthquakes and regular earthquakes (e.g. the kinds you feel).

[Paragon]

Just now, Juliancolton said:

One person's "research" is another person's confirmation bias.

That's definitely a good point, which is why it's good to have multiple researchers confirm it.  At any rate, this isn't about large or deep quakes at all (on the contrary they point out that the smaller tremors that could be caused by it might prevent much larger quakes from occurring by relieving stress.)

 

[Paragon]

2 minutes ago, jpeters3 said:

To summarize, the abstract does not indicate a direct connection between typhoons and ordinary earthquakes.  Rather, the authors seem to connect rainfall in typhoons to slow earthquakes, and there is a possible (but unproven) connection between slow earthquakes and regular earthquakes (e.g. the kinds you feel).

If you have a chance please have a look at this one too.

Typhoons trigger gentler tremors

Small quakes may act as a release valve that prevents catastrophic convulsions

https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090610/full/news.2009.561.html

 

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833-836 (2009). | Article |
2. Rogers, G. & Dragert, H. Science 300, 1942-1943 (2003). | Article | ChemPort |
3. Gomberg, J. et al. Science 319, 173 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
4. Rubinstein, J. L., La Rocca, M., Vidale, J. E., Creager, K. C. & Wech, A. G. Science 319, 186-189 (2008). | Article | ChemPort |

[jpeters3]

1 minute ago, Paragon said:

If you have a chance please have a look at this one too.

Typhoons trigger gentler tremors

Small quakes may act as a release valve that prevents catastrophic convulsions

https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090610/full/news.2009.561.html

 

References

1. Liu, C., Linde, A. T. & Sacks, I. S. Nature 459, 833-836 (2009). | Article |
2. Rogers, G. & Dragert, H. Science 300, 1942-1943 (2003). | Article | ChemPort |
3. Gomberg, J. et al. Science 319, 173 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
4. Rubinstein, J. L., La Rocca, M., Vidale, J. E., Creager, K. C. & Wech, A. G. Science 319, 186-189 (2008). | Article | ChemPort |

Looks like that one is a "news summary" of the same article I posted the abstract for.

[Paragon]

One last one (looking for footnotes on this one too)- looks like all of these articles are connected

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208121016.htm

 

A groundbreaking study led by University of Miami (UM) scientist Shimon Wdowinski shows that earthquakes, including the recent 2010 temblors in Haiti and Taiwan, may be triggered by tropical cyclones (hurricanes and typhoons), according to a presentation of the findings at the 2011 AGU Fall Meeting in San Francisco.

"Very wet rain events are the trigger," said Wdowinski, associate research professor of marine geology and geophysics at the UM Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science. "The heavy rain induces thousands of landslides and severe erosion, which removes ground material from the Earth's surface, releasing the stress load and encouraging movement along faults."

Wdowinski and a colleague from Florida International University analyzed data from quakes magnitude-6 and above in Taiwan and Haiti and found a strong temporal relationship between the two natural hazards, where large earthquakes occurred within four years after a very wet tropical cyclone season.

During the last 50 years three very wet tropical cyclone events -- Typhoons Morakot, Herb and Flossie -- were followed within four years by major earthquakes in Taiwan's mountainous regions. The 2009 Morakot typhoon was followed by a M-6.2 in 2009 and M-6.4 in 2010. The 1996 Typhoon Herb was followed by M-6.2 in 1998 and M-7.6 in 1999 and the 1969 Typhoon Flossie was followed by a M-6.2 in 1972.

The 2010 M-7 earthquake in Haiti occurred in the mountainous region one-and-a-half years after two hurricanes and two tropical storms drenched the island nation within 25 days.

The researchers suggest that rain-induced landslides and excess rain carries eroded material downstream. As a result the surface load above the fault is lessened.

"The reduced load unclamp the faults, which can promote an earthquake," said Wdowinski.

Fractures in Earth's bedrock from the movement of tectonic plates, known as faults, build up stress as they attempt to slide past each other, periodically releasing the stress in the form of an earthquake.

According to the scientists, this earthquake-triggering mechanism is only viable on inclined faults, where the rupture by these faults has a significant vertical movement.

Wdowinski also shows a trend in the tropical cyclone-earthquake pattern exists in M-5 and above earthquakes. The researchers plan to analyze patterns in other seismically active mountainous regions -- such as the Philippines and Japan -- that are subjected to tropical cyclones activity.

---

Story Source:

Materials provided by University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science. Note: Content may be edited for style and length.

---

Cite This Page:

• MLA
• APA
• Chicago

University of Miami Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science. "Link between earthquakes and tropical cyclones: New study may help scientists identify regions at high risk for earthquakes." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 26 December 2011. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208121016.htm>

 

 

[Windspeed]

Sure there are different types of quakes and some are more prone to being influenced by TC vs others.  Did you read the research?  They were talking about a hair trigger effect.  And of course water can cause quakes too- for example wastewater injection from fracking and dams have both lead to quakes.

 

I'll thank you not to display your condescending attitude though, I'm sure the researchers who posted the above know far more about geology than you do, my friend.

 

 

 

 

I apologize for being condescending. Yes, I was definitely that. I'm annoyed every time there is an earthquake that occurs while an intense tropical cyclone is raging somewhere when the meteorological discussion gets sidetracked over unscientific claims. The research and its cited sources do not prove any such claims and yet, here we go with someone posting about an EQ and its associations to said cyclone.

 

Also, though I do not have a PhD in geology, I do have a BS/concentration in geology from a public university and I have spent 25 years of my life under the discipline. I'm not ignorant of the subject matter. But it's not even a valid arugment when the only reseach cited cannot prove a direct link.

 

 

[Paragon]

2 minutes ago, Windspeed said:

I apologize for being condescending. Yes, I was definitely that. I'm annoyed every time there is an earthquake that occurs while an intense tropical cyclone is raging somewhere when the meteorological discussion gets sidetracked over unscientific claims. The research and its cites sources do not prove any such claims and yet, here we go with someone posting about an EQ and its associations to said cyclone.

Also, though I do not have a PhD in geology, I do have a bachelor's from a public university and I have spent 25 years of my life under the discipline. I'm not ignorant of the subject matter. But it's not even a valid arugment when the only reseach cited cannot prove a direct link.

Your points are definitely well taken.  I would never state that there was a causal relationship between most earthquakes and TCs, they are only talking about a specific subset they've statistically analyzed.  The last article, which was from Science seems to expand on the matter a bit.

Also, the Sophisticated Skeptic person seems to be bringing in other things into the discussion which I wouldn't think have much bearing on the matter.

This has nothing to do with solar activity.

[Windspeed]

Your points are definitely well taken.  I would never state that there was a causal relationship between most earthquakes and TCs, they are only talking about a specific subset they've statistically analyzed.  The last article, which was from Science seems to expand on the matter a bit.

Also, the Sophisticated Skeptic person seems to be bringing in other things into the discussion which I wouldn't think have much bearing on the matter.

This has nothing to do with solar activity.

I'm sure when the Sun goes into Red Giant phase in five billion years or the next large foreign cosmic body impacts the Earth, it'll cause some earthquakes. Otherwise, for now, at least, I won't be terrified of the New Madrid Fault giving way during the next Camille-like monster on the Gulf Coast.