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The 2017-18 Ski Season Thread

Skivt2

By Skivt2,
in New England

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Angus

Angus

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anyone have a wachusett gps season pass group a friend of mine could join. they would like to purchase for both themselves and two children (both under 7 years old). You can PM me with information if you wish. thanks.

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bobbutts

bobbutts

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On 8/2/2017 at 0:08 PM, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Have a 4 day trip up to North Conway planned for the week before Christmas.

Conditions were pretty good last year at the same time.

Hoping to do Cranmore. Contacted them about 2-3 day deals for 2 people they may have and never heard back. 

Cranmore is on liftopia so you may be able to get some discount there.  They're not available yet though.  Wildcat is definitely worth it if you haven't been.  If there's not much snow you're not that far from Sunday River.

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TauntonBlizzard2013

TauntonBlizzard2013

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@powderfreak

 

can you or or someone else who may know about mountain ops tell me how different conditions can be between the week before Christmas and say the second week of January? Even without much natural snow that is.

I have a chance to change my trip from the week before Christmas to the second week in January for virtually no extra cost.

As far as I know this is not a school vacation week?

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ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

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6 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

@powderfreak

 

can you or or someone else who may know about mountain ops tell me how different conditions can be between the week before Christmas and say the second week of January? Even without much natural snow that is.

I have a chance to change my trip from the week before Christmas to the second week in January for virtually no extra cost.

As far as I know this is not a school vacation week?

Powderfreak prob has a more technical insight than me, but you are likely to have better conditions in January just due to the natural snow buildup that progresses throughout the season...however, a lot of it will just have to due with weather. You could have smashing awesome conditions the week before Christmas if we get a good December and on the other hand if there is a cutter right before you arrive during January, the conditions could be awful with tons of ice. But all else being equal, if both periods are cold without a ton of natural snow, you're gonna have the better conditions in January because they will have had more snow making done by then on some of the secondary trails that might need a bit extra versus the big primary trails that will be covered in December.

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TauntonBlizzard2013

TauntonBlizzard2013

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6 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Powderfreak prob has a more technical insight than me, but you are likely to have better conditions in January just due to the natural snow buildup that progresses throughout the season...however, a lot of it will just have to due with weather. You could have smashing awesome conditions the week before Christmas if we get a good December and on the other hand if there is a cutter right before you arrive during January, the conditions could be awful with tons of ice. But all else being equal, if both periods are cold without a ton of natural snow, you're gonna have the better conditions in January because they will have had more snow making done by then on some of the secondary trails that might need a bit extra versus the big primary trails that will be covered in December.

Right...  suppose you are always kind of gambling because there could be a cutter at any point in the winter. But as you said, it's basically 2+ more weeks of snowmaking and natural chances.

 

We lucked out last year going the week before Christmas, and we liked going right before the Holiday. Ultimately though, I think the safer play, especially for someone still learning like my fiancé, is to go in Jan

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Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

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4 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Right...  suppose you are always kind of gambling because there could be a cutter at any point in the winter. But as you said, it's basically 2+ more weeks of snowmaking and natural chances.

 

We lucked out last year going the week before Christmas, and we liked going right before the Holiday. Ultimately though, I think the safer play, especially for someone still learning like my fiancé, is to go in Jan

Then again you run the increased risk of brutal cold and ice. Its a crapshoot for sure. More runs open in Jan usually but for a beginner really not an issue

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ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

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1 minute ago, Ginx snewx said:

Then again you run the increased risk of brutal cold and ice. Its a crapshoot for sure. More runs open in Jan usually but for a beginner really not an issue

I feel like ice is a bigger risk in December...you get those death ribbons of manmade snow refrozen after a Grinch storm. Obviously it can happen any time of the winter....but the higher chance of natural snow aiding the conditions would be in January.

 

Then again, maybe we get a Nina and this December acts like 2007...or 1995.

 

 

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Ginx snewx

Ginx snewx

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15 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

I feel like ice is a bigger risk in December...you get those death ribbons of manmade snow refrozen after a Grinch storm. Obviously it can happen any time of the winter....but the higher chance of natural snow aiding the conditions would be in January.

 

Then again, maybe we get a Nina and this December acts like 2007...or 1995.

 

 

true just was thinking of my past experiences with dry harsh cold Jan's up north.  Best week before Christmas trip was Dec 2003, Newry had over 55 inches total by Dec 16th, we left the day before the 3 inch rainstorm on the 17th. Place was empty and was unreal.

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ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

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13 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

true just was thinking of my past experiences with dry harsh cold Jan's up north.  Best week before Christmas trip was Dec 2003, Newry had over 55 inches total by Dec 16th, we left the day before the 3 inch rainstorm on the 17th. Place was empty and was unreal.

Yeah the worst conditions possible are probably like a windy 0F in January like 3 days after a cutter....at that point you almost just want to pack up and go home. We actually had a day like that when I went to Killington as a kid on December 24, 1992. There had been a brutally ugly cutter about a week before...then only a minor refresher of 1-3" right before we went up. Left the house at 5am on Christmas Eve and ran into a nasty squall on the way up around Woodstock...got there and it was windy and frigid...IIRC I think the temp was falling most of the day. I do not think the summit ever made it above 0F...if it did, it was probably in the morning. But regardless, it was just my dad and I...and I think we got in about 24 runs that day...like legit runs all over 1200 vertical....some much more. So we gutted it out despite the ice and frigid cold. The mountain was virtually empty being Christmas Eve and so cold. So that part was nice. We took about 4 breaks....very uncharacteristic of us...usually when it was just the two of us, we'd only take a lunch break and that's it. But the cold was so bad we had to go in a few times to warm up.

 

I think the only conditions rougher than that are probably when it's like 34F and raining...nobody want to get wet.

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TauntonBlizzard2013

TauntonBlizzard2013

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33 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah the worst conditions possible are probably like a windy 0F in January like 3 days after a cutter....at that point you almost just want to pack up and go home. We actually had a day like that when I went to Killington as a kid on December 24, 1992. There had been a brutally ugly cutter about a week before...then only a minor refresher of 1-3" right before we went up. Left the house at 5am on Christmas Eve and ran into a nasty squall on the way up around Woodstock...got there and it was windy and frigid...IIRC I think the temp was falling most of the day. I do not think the summit ever made it above 0F...if it did, it was probably in the morning. But regardless, it was just my dad and I...and I think we got in about 24 runs that day...like legit runs all over 1200 vertical....some much more. So we gutted it out despite the ice and frigid cold. The mountain was virtually empty being Christmas Eve and so cold. So that part was nice. We took about 4 breaks....very uncharacteristic of us...usually when it was just the two of us, we'd only take a lunch break and that's it. But the cold was so bad we had to go in a few times to warm up.

 

I think the only conditions rougher than that are probably when it's like 34F and raining...nobody want to get wet.

I went to Sunday river the week before Christmas in 2009 I believe? The conditions were unreal. Tons of snow leading up to the mountain and at the mountain.

 

ive also skied in pouring rain, which is probably the worst. January 2007. It just poured the entire day and it was just slush. Hasn't been a good winter up to that point either and it showed.

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TauntonBlizzard2013

TauntonBlizzard2013

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1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

Then again you run the increased risk of brutal cold and ice. Its a crapshoot for sure. More runs open in Jan usually but for a beginner really not an issue

Yeah... I just want to time it for best possible conditions, even though anytime of the winter can suck. If the conditions are good, she may like it better and want to keep with it

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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Will's described the worst conditions possible...the dry Arctic cold in January following a cutter, lol.

I will say luckily up here in the upslope zone along with the chance at a lake streamer, we tend to avoid the truly horrific conditions at a decent rate.  I'd say most years 4 out of 5 trainers will end with some accumulation...though some winters like 15-16 that's a dusting to 2" (which doesn't do much).  Other winters like last year, we seem to upslope our way to 6-8" at least excuse imaginable.  Last winter we had some very well timed upslope events immediately following a thaw.  

Funny how each season has a personality for upslope...some years it's just every event like last winter over-performs.  Even 11-12 was very good upslope amid a terrible synoptic pattern.  Then years like 13-14 and 15-16 just have very little upslope response on NW flow.  

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Hitman

Hitman

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Will's described the worst conditions possible...the dry Arctic cold in January following a cutter, lol.

I will say luckily up here in the upslope zone along with the chance at a lake streamer, we tend to avoid the truly horrific conditions at a decent rate.  I'd say most years 4 out of 5 trainers will end with some accumulation...though some winters like 15-16 that's a dusting to 2" (which doesn't do much).  Other winters like last year, we seem to upslope our way to 6-8" at least excuse imaginable.  Last winter we had some very well timed upslope events immediately following a thaw.  

Funny how each season has a personality for upslope...some years it's just every event like last winter over-performs.  Even 11-12 was very good upslope amid a terrible synoptic pattern.  Then years like 13-14 and 15-16 just have very little upslope response on NW flow.  

In my experience at sugarbush over the last decade, weather variability aside, you have a much greater chance of more of the trails being open at the beginning of january then before christmas.  There simply is more time to make snow.  sure, some might say there's more time for a cutter to damn it all to hell, but usually by MLK all snow making trails are open regardless of the weather situation, whereas before christmas, not so much.

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ORH_wxman

ORH_wxman

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2 minutes ago, Hitman said:

In my experience at sugarbush over the last decade, weather variability aside, you have a much greater chance of more of the trails being open at the beginning of january then before christmas.  There simply is more time to make snow.  sure, some might say there's more time for a cutter to damn it all to hell, but usually by MLK all snow making trails are open regardless of the weather situation, whereas before christmas, not so much.

Yeah, cutters happen, but on average you are going to get more cold stretches for snow making and more natural snow events to help build up snowpack with the extra couple weeks between 12/20 and like January 7th.

Even years where we got Grinch storms, frequently we had a big storm after Christmas to erase the bad taste...like 2007-2008 had the events on 12/30 and 1/1, 2008-2009 had the 12/31 event and another on 1/7 plus a smaller refresher in between. 2009-2010 had the big retro Jan 1-3 storm that gave BTV their 34 inches of snow...again, with a minor refresher before that storm which all happened after the hideous cutter on Dec 26-27. 2010-2011 of course had boxing day and then despite a bit of a thaw (but no big cutter) on new years, there was another event on 1/7, though 2010 never had a Grinch storm which was nice. 2011-2012 sucked, lol, we'll leave it at that (I know there was some decent upslope that year though).....2012-2013 had the big event on Dec 26-27...and then another on Dec 29th. I could go on, but yeah, everyone gets the picture...those extra couple weeks tend to produce good natural snow events in addition to the extra snow making time.

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Hitman

Hitman

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6 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah, cutters happen, but on average you are going to get more cold stretches for snow making and more natural snow events to help build up snowpack with the extra couple weeks between 12/20 and like January 7th.

Even years where we got Grinch storms, frequently we had a big storm after Christmas to erase the bad taste...like 2007-2008 had the events on 12/30 and 1/1, 2008-2009 had the 12/31 event and another on 1/7 plus a smaller refresher in between. 2009-2010 had the big retro Jan 1-3 storm that gave BTV their 34 inches of snow...again, with a minor refresher before that storm which all happened after the hideous cutter on Dec 26-27. 2010-2011 of course had boxing day and then despite a bit of a thaw (but no big cutter) on new years, there was another event on 1/7, though 2010 never had a Grinch storm which was nice. 2011-2012 sucked, lol, we'll leave it at that (I know there was some decent upslope that year though).....2012-2013 had the big event on Dec 26-27...and then another on Dec 29th. I could go on, but yeah, everyone gets the picture...those extra couple weeks tend to produce good natural snow events in addition to the extra snow making time.

That 34" in btv was not so productive on the east side of the spine.  Iirc, it was a blocked flow and only about 6" on the eastern slopes.

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tamarack

tamarack

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:16 AM, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah the worst conditions possible are probably like a windy 0F in January like 3 days after a cutter....at that point you almost just want to pack up and go home. We actually had a day like that when I went to Killington as a kid on December 24, 1992. There had been a brutally ugly cutter about a week before...then only a minor refresher of 1-3" right before we went up. Left the house at 5am on Christmas Eve and ran into a nasty squall on the way up around Woodstock...got there and it was windy and frigid...IIRC I think the temp was falling most of the day. I do not think the summit ever made it above 0F...if it did, it was probably in the morning. But regardless, it was just my dad and I...and I think we got in about 24 runs that day...like legit runs all over 1200 vertical....some much more. So we gutted it out despite the ice and frigid cold. The mountain was virtually empty being Christmas Eve and so cold. So that part was nice. We took about 4 breaks....very uncharacteristic of us...usually when it was just the two of us, we'd only take a lunch break and that's it. But the cold was so bad we had to go in a few times to warm up.

 

I think the only conditions rougher than that are probably when it's like 34F and raining...nobody want to get wet.

Had a day like that on the middle day of my ski week at the old Glen Ellen, way back in January 1971, still the coldest month on record at PWM and some other NNE sites.  We'd had 8" of wet snow the day before, and by the time I got to the lodge on Wednesday (studs on the old Nova did their job) it was near zero with winds gusting past 40 and light, fine snow.  It was my only day not riding the mountain lift, an old slow double that took a full 15 minutes to go 6500'.  The advanced beginner slope, where our beginning parallel class met, was one-third as long and offered 5-600' vertical.  Had a private lesson for most of the 90 minutes, as classmates struggled up the icy road.  My mask worked fine but the (not masked) instructor would have white spots on his nose as we reached the top.  Skiing started out tough, my first real experience with wind slab, until I got into the rhythm of mule-kick turns.  After lunch, I probably went up and down that slope about 25 times.  Around 2:30, with temps subzero and windy as ever, I reached the top and thought, it's colder, last run.  Then I'd warm up making turns, see no one between me and the lift except the attendant, and decide, just one more - about 10 times.  Finally called it quits about 4 PM, just before they closed the lifts.  

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