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Interior NW Burbs & Hudson Valley Second Half 2018

snywx

By snywx,
in New York City Metro

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NorthShoreWx

NorthShoreWx

Posted
Posted

This may be the official version (or not, it is from 2013), but it is a NOAA guideline (from a NOAA site) for coops that references 1x/day:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf

This NOAA publication is only a few months old ( http://www.nws.noaa.gov/directives/sym/pd01013005curr.pdf ) and points to this source for snow measurement guidelines:

https://www.cocorahs.org/media/video/measuringsnow/default.aspx

 

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CPcantmeasuresnow

CPcantmeasuresnow

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

I searched and couldn't find anything about another change in the guidelines back to 6 hour clearing.  I think one person thinks that, tells someone, who tells someone else, then it's all over that "they went back to doing it some other way".  When in reality nothing has changed.

But since there doesn't not seem to be a central clearing house for the latest methodologies, it's hard to make a definitive case.  What I did find indicates that we wipe the board no more than once per day and measure snowfall at the peak depth before it compacts.

 

snowmeasure.jpg

 

 

 

Well like I said when I started the discussion, the wiping the board every 6 hours was as per a demonstration I happened to see on TWC about 2-4 weeks ago on how to measure snow. They did have one of their higher up meteorologists doing the demo so I figured were back to that.  Whether TWC has it right, no idea.

It always made more sense to me, especially if you're going to compare historical storms, because wiping every 6 hours was I believe the method used through most of recorded history. I could be wrong and if so someone let me know.

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NorthShoreWx

NorthShoreWx

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

Well like I said when I started the discussion, the wiping the board every 6 hours was as per a demonstration I happened to see on TWC about 2-4 weeks ago on how to measure snow. They did have one of their higher up meteorologists doing the demo so I figured were back to that.  Whether TWC has it right, no idea.

It always made more sense to me, especially if you're going to compare historical storms, because wiping every 6 hours was I believe the method used through most of recorded history. I could be wrong and if so someone let me know.

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm.

A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow.  But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol.

 

TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot.

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IrishRob17

IrishRob17

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm.

A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow.  But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol.

 

TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot.

Good post.  Yeah, I’ve seen nothing historically about measuring every 6 hours, it’s very recent history.  That method never made sense to me, as others mentioned, it’s what is in the ground that matters IMO. What’s the point of saying 24” fell if the max depth on the ground at the end of the snowfall is 20”?  I see apparently TWC is still off their game, which sucks because they were so good back in the day. 

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SEC

SEC

Posted
Posted 
URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Binghamton NY
310 PM EST Mon Feb 5 2018

NYZ062-PAZ043-044-047-048-072-062015-
/O.NEW.KBGM.WS.A.0002.180207T1100Z-180208T0500Z/
Sullivan-Wyoming-Lackawanna-Luzerne-Pike-Southern Wayne-
Including the cities of Monticello, Tunkhannock, Scranton,
Hazleton, Wilkes-Barre, Milford, and Honesdale
310 PM EST Mon Feb 5 2018

...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH
WEDNESDAY EVENING...

* WHAT...Heavy mixed precipitation possible. Plan on difficult
  travel conditions, including during the afternoon commute on
  Wednesday. Total snow accumulations of 4 to 8 inches and ice
  accumulations of up to one tenth of an inch are possible.

* WHERE...In Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Lackawanna, Luzerne, Pike
  and Southern Wayne Counties. In New York, Sullivan County.

* WHEN...From Wednesday morning through Wednesday evening.

* ADDITIONAL DETAILS...Significant reductions in visibility are
  possible. The highest snow totals are expected across the higher
  elevations in the area. The heaviest snowfall is expected from
  10 AM until 2 PM Wednesday, before precipitation mixes with
  sleet, rain and freezing rain. The wintry mix should change back
  to light snow or snow showers, before ending Wednesday evening.
  Snow may fall at rates up to 1 inch per hour at times.
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White Gorilla

White Gorilla

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Juliancolton said:

Yeah, nice appetizer, mod snow atm. Looks pretty. 

This snow is from the cold front, correct?  Will  this surprise higher intensity snow have any bearing on the trajectory or thermal profiles of tomorrow's system?  Some Mets were discussing how the cold may be under modeled given the fresh injection. 

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CPcantmeasuresnow

CPcantmeasuresnow

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, NorthShoreWx said:

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure measuring peak depth of new snow was the snowfall standard through most of history, not wiping a board during the storm.

A lot of the old coop reports are inaccurate because they only measured once per day at the same time (assuming they didn't fail to measure snowfall completely on a given day) and were measuring compacted and/or melted snow.  But wiping a board every 6 hours was never protocol.

 

TWC putting out inaccurate information to the masses could explain a lot.

 

20 hours ago, IrishRob17 said:

Good post.  Yeah, I’ve seen nothing historically about measuring every 6 hours, it’s very recent history.  That method never made sense to me, as others mentioned, it’s what is in the ground that matters IMO. What’s the point of saying 24” fell if the max depth on the ground at the end of the snowfall is 20”?  I see apparently TWC is still off their game, which sucks because they were so good back in the day. 

Below is The Weather Channnel  demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know.

Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close.

My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff.

 

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall

 

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Juliancolton

Juliancolton

Posted
Posted

The good news is I'm at just a hair under 2" so far from this morning's burst of snow! First wholesale positive bust of the year. The stuff is basically translucent, so I'm expecting extremely high ratios once the contents of the Stratus melt down. The bad news is I caught a hidden patch of ice on the way back in from measuring and ate it big-time. :lol:

WG, I think most of this is dPVA-driven from a shortwave zipping along in the zonal flow... you can see it well on the WV loop this am. I can't really think of any major implications this might have on tomorrow's system. The sensible conditions have thrown a lot of us for a loop, but the upper-level wave looks about the same as modeled. We just got lucky with slightly more moisture in the column than anticipated, which wouldn't have even been noticed if not for a well-placed DGZ and a tenuous trigger for ascent.

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NorthShoreWx

NorthShoreWx

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

 

Below is The Weather Channnel  demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know.

Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close.

My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff.

 

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall

 

The weather channel is sharing obsolete information.  That change occurred a few years ago.

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CPcantmeasuresnow

CPcantmeasuresnow

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, NorthShoreWx said:

The weather channel is sharing obsolete information.  That change occurred a few years ago.

 

2 hours ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

 

Below is The Weather Channnel  demonstration they were airing on December 27, 2017. If you watch they clearly state these are the guidelines as per the NWS, and they also clearly state the snowboard should be wiped every 6 hours. Are they correct? I don't know.

Do I trust NOAA who couldn't even calculate the correct 30 year snowfall averages from 1981-2010 in NYC until someone with a spreadsheet and a simple understanding of addition and division pointed out to them they had it wrong? It took 6 e-mails but they finally relented and changed from 25.1 to 25.8 in March 2014. BTW it's still wrong, it should be 25.9, January is 7.1 but they calculated 7.0. At least their close.

My point iis who is right? The incompetent weather channel or the incompetent NOAA? I've seen them both mess up the easy stuff.

 

https://weather.com/storms/winter/video/how-to-correctly-measure-snowfall

 

You would think they would do a little research before doing a piece like that, but then again,,,,,,

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itsdnice

itsdnice

Posted
Posted 
... Winter Storm Warning in effect from 4 am to 10 PM EST
Wednesday... 

* what... heavy mixed precipitation. Total snow accumulations of 6
  to 9 inches, with localized amounts up to 11 inches, are
  expected. Ice accretions up to one tenth of an inch are also
  anticipated.

* Where... Sullivan County.

* When... from 4 am to 10 PM EST Wednesday. Steady snow is first
  expected to develop between 7 and 8 am. The heaviest snowfall
  rates, at times 1 to 2 inches per hour, should occur between
  roughly 9 am and 2 PM. Snow is expected to mix with, or change 
  over to sleet and freezing rain, during the afternoon. Steady 
  precipitation should end during the evening.

* Additional details... plan on difficult travel conditions, 
  including during the morning commute on Wednesday. Be prepared 
  for significant reductions in visibility at times.
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