NNE Spring Thread

[alex]

32 for a low, 76 for a high. Wowzer 

[ORH_wxman]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:29 PM, powderfreak said:

Only 4 winters out of the past 62 had higher snow depths for this time of year.

Supports my snowfall data of the most snowfall since the record 2000-2001 winter...in that this was a high-end winter for the northern Greens. 

I am convinced that had we not seen that thaw in late February and early March that lost over 40" of snowpack...this winter would have challenged all-time snow depth records.  It was that good, IMO.  But that is what separates great winters from all-time winters.  I'm more amazed that EVERY single upslope event seemed to over-produce to the modeled mean.  It was a classic winter where if you were gung-ho, you'd win any forecast competition.  We bet in the office on every storm, write the projected totals down on the white-board and I lost most of them.  Those systems where models would argue for 6", produced 12".  The storms that looked like 12", ended up doing 20".  I honestly think my forecasting was affected by the past 5 winters...where every event seemed to under-perform to some extent.  Like the models were right or they were too high in their outputs.  This winter was the winter to ride the 3km NAM when most winters you feel like its on crack.  This was no "take 2/3rds of the NAM" type winter.

What also helps is getting a 52" storm total (45" at the COOP, which is as impressive as it gets for that collection method) as can be seen by the recovery from the thaw.

 

 

What's amazing to me is that compared to last year, around 225" more snowfall was measured at the 3kft plot this year.  I mean, that's a sh*t ton more snow to fall from the sky from one year to another. 

Photo from yesterday afternoon of the measuring equipment used to collect these values.  Not an exact science high in the mountains but we try and I do think its representative of the snowfall at that elevation.

 

If Kevin lived at Stowe, he would have won all your competitions this season.

[wxeyeNH]

Full sun late this PM.   Got .35" with front this AM.   Huge snowmelt the past 4 days.  Looking out over my property its mostly gone but flying the drone over the area shows there is still quite a bit of snowcover, especially on north slopes and in the woods.

 

    Drone clip

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPimFdy2sI

Video of the fropa today

https://video.nest.com/clip/9facb41277494583a116ce305724109b.mp4

[powderfreak]

Light snow showers this morning.

32F at the office.

[alex]

Light snow here too now. Bring back the 70's. 

[J.Spin]

With plenty of snowfall and skiing over the past few weeks, I haven’t thought about this winter’s overall grade for a while, but it came to my mind now that our latest storm is complete and we’re into the final part of the winter season.  I wouldn’t have guessed it about a month or so ago, but for the first time in quite a while, I believe we’re looking at something other than a grade of “C” or lower for our location.  I discuss where things sit for some of the major components I consider for the winter grade below:

 

Snowfall:  We’re more than 95% of the way through the snowfall season here, and snowfall is guaranteed to come in above average.  We’re still within 1 S.D. of mean annual snowfall at this point however (with the current statistics, 190”+ is required to surpass that bracket), so it’s not quite into rarified territory just yet.  This last storm did push snowfall into the top 20% of seasons however, so we’re really verging on that B+/A- border.  Looking at the individual months, the October through April period was above average on snowfall except for December (slightly below) and January (well below).  Those are a couple of key snowfall months though, and their low numbers testify to some poor winter periods.  Those poorer months are offset by good to great snowfall numbers in both February and March, so I’d say the season’s overall grade is a strong B+ for now in the snowfall category, and an A- can be reserved for passing the +1 S.D. mark.

 

Snowpack:  This will certainly take the season down a peg.  Despite the good snowfall, SDD are at 848, only 60-70% of average, and the stats say that we’re in the bottom 30% of seasons for that parameter.  The continuous winter snowpack did start on Dec 3^rd, which is within the normal start window, and it’s still going, but it had that huge dip in the first half of March, when the mean snowpack numbers are still growing slightly or at least holding pat.  The low SDD speaks to those poor winter periods in part of December, all of January, and that first half of March.  It looks like a straight “D” is what the numbers call for with respect to snowpack this season.

 

Storms:  Through today we’ve had 55 accumulating winter storms on the season, which is above average, but still within 1 S.D. of the mean.  The average snowfall per storm (3.4”) is much higher than it’s been at any point since our last above average snowfall season.  I’m not sure if there’s any correlation there at all, but it’s been a nice switch.  Getting 41.0” from Winter Storm Stella was certainly a highlight, but I don’t necessarily factor individual storms too much into the grade because this is definitely not a “one hit wonder” type of climate; it’s the consistency that makes the winters (and skiing) what they are in the Northern Greens.  This season there were six storms of 6”+, which is actually below average, but up from the past couple of seasons, and on par with the previous few that have occurred since our last above average snowfall season.  For storms of 10”+, and all higher categories up to 24”+, the numbers were at or slightly above average.  I’ll go with a grade of B+, giving a bit of a nod to Winter Storm Stella, but I don’t think we’re quite looking at an A when you’ve got seasons like ‘07-‘08, ‘08-‘09, and ‘10-‘11 that are all up near a dozen storms of 6”+.

 

So, taking the above factors into account, I’m going with a straight B at this point for the winter’s overall grade.  It’s been a nice change of pace to actually see an above average season, even if it wasn’t anything especially outrageous.  There’s not too much that can dramatically affect the grade in the second half of April and May, but I’ll reassess where things stand when we actually get to the end of the season.

[Ginx snewx]

8 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

With plenty of snowfall and skiing over the past few weeks, I haven’t thought about this winter’s overall grade for a while, but it came to my mind now that our latest storm is complete and we’re into the final part of the winter season.  I wouldn’t have guessed it about a month or so ago, but for the first time in quite a while, I believe we’re looking at something other than a grade of “C” or lower for our location.  I discuss where things sit for some of the major components I consider for the winter grade below:

 

Snowfall:  We’re more than 95% of the way through the snowfall season here, and snowfall is guaranteed to come in above average.  We’re still within 1 S.D. of mean annual snowfall at this point however (with the current statistics, 190”+ is required to surpass that bracket), so it’s not quite into rarified territory just yet.  This last storm did push snowfall into the top 20% of seasons however, so we’re really verging on that B+/A- border.  Looking at the individual months, the October through April period was above average on snowfall except for December (slightly below) and January (well below).  Those are a couple of key snowfall months though, and their low numbers testify to some poor winter periods.  Those poorer months are offset by good to great snowfall numbers in both February and March, so I’d say the season’s overall grade is a strong B+ for now in the snowfall category, and an A- can be reserved for passing the +1 S.D. mark.

 

Snowpack:  This will certainly take the season down a peg.  Despite the good snowfall, SDD are at 848, only 60-70% of average, and the stats say that we’re in the bottom 30% of seasons for that parameter.  The continuous winter snowpack did start on Dec 3^rd, which is within the normal start window, and it’s still going, but it had that huge dip in the first half of March, when the mean snowpack numbers are still growing slightly or at least holding pat.  The low SDD speaks to those poor winter periods in part of December, all of January, and that first half of March.  It looks like a straight “D” is what the numbers call for with respect to snowpack this season.

 

Storms:  Through today we’ve had 55 accumulating winter storms on the season, which is above average, but still within 1 S.D. of the mean.  The average snowfall per storm (3.4”) is much higher than it’s been at any point since our last above average snowfall season.  I’m not sure if there’s any correlation there at all, but it’s been a nice switch.  Getting 41.0” from Winter Storm Stella was certainly a highlight, but I don’t necessarily factor individual storms too much into the grade because this is definitely not a “one hit wonder” type of climate; it’s the consistency that makes the winters (and skiing) what they are in the Northern Greens.  This season there were six storms of 6”+, which is actually below average, but up from the past couple of seasons, and on par with the previous few that have occurred since our last above average snowfall season.  For storms of 10”+, and all higher categories up to 24”+, the numbers were at or slightly above average.  I’ll go with a grade of B+, giving a bit of a nod to Winter Storm Stella, but I don’t think we’re quite looking at an A when you’ve got seasons like ‘07-‘08, ‘08-‘09, and ‘10-‘11 that are all up near a dozen storms of 6”+.

 

So, taking the above factors into account, I’m going with a straight B at this point for the winter’s overall grade.  It’s been a nice change of pace to actually see an above average season, even if it wasn’t anything especially outrageous.  There’s not too much that can dramatically affect the grade in the second half of April and May, but I’ll reassess where things stand when we actually get to the end of the season.

I hated teachers like you, lol. Snow depth days up there due to the big thaw would be the only reason I would take it down a peg but a great season no less ( apparently not over come the 23rd or so)

[mreaves]

1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

With plenty of snowfall and skiing over the past few weeks, I haven’t thought about this winter’s overall grade for a while, but it came to my mind now that our latest storm is complete and we’re into the final part of the winter season.  I wouldn’t have guessed it about a month or so ago, but for the first time in quite a while, I believe we’re looking at something other than a grade of “C” or lower for our location.  I discuss where things sit for some of the major components I consider for the winter grade below:

 

Snowfall:  We’re more than 95% of the way through the snowfall season here, and snowfall is guaranteed to come in above average.  We’re still within 1 S.D. of mean annual snowfall at this point however (with the current statistics, 190”+ is required to surpass that bracket), so it’s not quite into rarified territory just yet.  This last storm did push snowfall into the top 20% of seasons however, so we’re really verging on that B+/A- border.  Looking at the individual months, the October through April period was above average on snowfall except for December (slightly below) and January (well below).  Those are a couple of key snowfall months though, and their low numbers testify to some poor winter periods.  Those poorer months are offset by good to great snowfall numbers in both February and March, so I’d say the season’s overall grade is a strong B+ for now in the snowfall category, and an A- can be reserved for passing the +1 S.D. mark.

 

Snowpack:  This will certainly take the season down a peg.  Despite the good snowfall, SDD are at 848, only 60-70% of average, and the stats say that we’re in the bottom 30% of seasons for that parameter.  The continuous winter snowpack did start on Dec 3^rd, which is within the normal start window, and it’s still going, but it had that huge dip in the first half of March, when the mean snowpack numbers are still growing slightly or at least holding pat.  The low SDD speaks to those poor winter periods in part of December, all of January, and that first half of March.  It looks like a straight “D” is what the numbers call for with respect to snowpack this season.

 

Storms:  Through today we’ve had 55 accumulating winter storms on the season, which is above average, but still within 1 S.D. of the mean.  The average snowfall per storm (3.4”) is much higher than it’s been at any point since our last above average snowfall season.  I’m not sure if there’s any correlation there at all, but it’s been a nice switch.  Getting 41.0” from Winter Storm Stella was certainly a highlight, but I don’t necessarily factor individual storms too much into the grade because this is definitely not a “one hit wonder” type of climate; it’s the consistency that makes the winters (and skiing) what they are in the Northern Greens.  This season there were six storms of 6”+, which is actually below average, but up from the past couple of seasons, and on par with the previous few that have occurred since our last above average snowfall season.  For storms of 10”+, and all higher categories up to 24”+, the numbers were at or slightly above average.  I’ll go with a grade of B+, giving a bit of a nod to Winter Storm Stella, but I don’t think we’re quite looking at an A when you’ve got seasons like ‘07-‘08, ‘08-‘09, and ‘10-‘11 that are all up near a dozen storms of 6”+.

 

So, taking the above factors into account, I’m going with a straight B at this point for the winter’s overall grade.  It’s been a nice change of pace to actually see an above average season, even if it wasn’t anything especially outrageous.  There’s not too much that can dramatically affect the grade in the second half of April and May, but I’ll reassess where things stand when we actually get to the end of the season.

 

54 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I hated teachers like you, lol. Snow depth days up there due to the big thaw would be the only reason I would take it down a peg but a great season no less ( apparently not over come the 23rd or so)

The thaw(s) and overall lack of true cold really stick in my craw.  Snowfall was good but retention was awful and because ot the warmth, open water in the woods was a constant issue.  You should not see open water bars at over 1500' in the NEK at the end of January!  I give the winter a C but could maybe be convinced to push it to a C+

[ORH_wxman]

25 minutes ago, mreaves said:

 

The thaw(s) and overall lack of true cold really stick in my craw.  Snowfall was good but retention was awful and because ot the warmth, open water in the woods was a constant issue.  You should not see open water bars at over 1500' in the NEK at the end of January!  I give the winter a C but could maybe be convinced to push it to a C+

Winter really got knocked down a peg a bit lower down in elevation than the ski areas because of the constant warm spells. If a couple of those storms in December and January could have held the high pressure a bit more stout north of Maine, I think the flavor of winter would have been a lot better. A few too many warm sectors this year at the surface and of course that nasty torch in late February.

The CAD areas of Maine seemed to be the one place that did well on snow pack this year for elevations below 1500 feet. Even now, it's funny looking at snow cover and depth...almost all of VT is wiped out below 1500 feet (save for maybe areas right in the heart of upslope region like Jspin's hood) while a good chunk of Maine and even N NH in the CAD regions are still showing decent pack in lower elevations. This is how it often retreats anyway, but it's a lot more obvious this season.

 

Down in interior SNE where CAD is also pretty good, it was probably slightly below average for days with snow cover (I counted 68 days with snow cover in ORH vs an average of around 75-77), but I'd bet snow depth days (SDD) were more below average....this despite actual total snowfall being above average. Off the top of my head, I can probably confidently say this is the first winter since 1996-1997 that clearly had below average depth and snow cover days in a season where total snowfall was above average over the interior down here.

[Ginx snewx]

21 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Winter really got knocked down a peg a bit lower down in elevation than the ski areas because of the constant warm spells. If a couple of those storms in December and January could have held the high pressure a bit more stout north of Maine, I think the flavor of winter would have been a lot better. A few too many warm sectors this year at the surface and of course that nasty torch in late February.

The CAD areas of Maine seemed to be the one place that did well on snow pack this year for elevations below 1500 feet. Even now, it's funny looking at snow cover and depth...almost all of VT is wiped out below 1500 feet (save for maybe areas right in the heart of upslope region like Jspin's hood) while a good chunk of Maine and even N NH in the CAD regions are still showing decent pack in lower elevations. This is how it often retreats anyway, but it's a lot more obvious this season.

 

Down in interior SNE where CAD is also pretty good, it was probably slightly below average for days with snow cover (I counted 68 days with snow cover in ORH vs an average of around 75-77), but I'd bet snow depth days (SDD) were more below average....this despite actual total snowfall being above average. Off the top of my head, I can probably confidently say this is the first winter since 1996-1997 that clearly had below average depth and snow cover days in a season where total snowfall was above average over the interior down here.

Here is a great representation of what you just stated http://www.wermenh.com/sdd/index.html

[J.Spin]

2 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

I hated teachers like you, lol. Snow depth days up there due to the big thaw would be the only reason I would take it down a peg but a great season no less ( apparently not over come the 23rd or so)

 

As you can see from mreaves’ feelings, that snowpack aspect can be considered a huge chink in this season’s armor for some people.  Snowfall is certainly king when it comes to my overall grade, but the snowpack did factor in.  It took a season that would be verging on A territory with a B+/A- grade, and brought it down (really just 1/3 to 1/2 a peg in my case) to that straight B.  I’d actually say I was pretty lenient with respect to the hit the grade took due to the snowpack deficiency – taking it down a full peg would put this season on the C+/B- border, and I could easily see people knocking it down harder the way mreaves did.  We’re talking a D-level snowpack season here, in an area (i.e. anywhere from the spine eastward) where a continuous winter snowpack of reasonable depth is essentially a given.

[eyewall]

It was nice evening in BTV last night:

[SJonesWX]

i'm with jspin. snowpack retention sucked. snowfall was pretty far above average (135% ish), but the pack just never stuck around. C+/B- at best for me.

I should add that there was snow on the ground pretty much from 12/5 all the way to 4/1 which is nice. but the depth was never very deep, and the poorly timed thaws didn't help at all.

[powderfreak]

This winter is getting an A or A- from me...only reason might be low elevation snowpack but I didn't think it was a big deal.  Had snowpack from Dec 3 through Feb 12...then two days with patchy cover before the big storm hit.  

I had white ground for all but like 2-3 days at home, and that's the lowest snowpack I see in my day to day life.  I travel from town to the mountain, ha.  Most of my waking daylight hours were spent looking at feet and feet of snow at the mountain.

I also really like consistent snows...it snowed a lot this year.  Like multiple week stretches at a time watching snow fall at home each evening.

I had around 145" at home, a little less than 2010-11 but the mountain had more than that winter which is what I care about.

I measured so much snow and watched so many storms over-produce that factors in big to my grade.  The surprise January 17-incher.  The multi-feet in early/mid December.  52" from Stella.  The 85" in 3 weeks of 1"+ accumulations every single day in mid-winter.  Twice this season or even three times it was the deepest snow of my life where you were concerned about drowning.  Unfortunately that did happen to someone, and inbound snow submersion deaths don't happen in the east but this year's snow was that deep.  

We would've set the all-time depth record I think if not for the two week thaw.  Still, biggest snow season at the resort since 2000-01.  That out-weighs anything that happens at my house haha.  I'd rather ski it.  

Plus at home we had what seemed like a half dozen warning criteria events so after two years without one that felt acceptable.

[eyewall]

There was no doubt I have never seen a roller coaster ride like this winter. I will have to give it an A- and a lot of that is thanks to the Pi Day Storm (aka Stella). I have always wanted to experience a 30" snowfall in a single event and now I have! I will never forget it!  The CPV as a whole had several overpeformers. The only drawback was the February warm up ahead of the big one. Finally there were some fantastic days for sure on the mountain skiing. I can walk away very happy from this one. I would be surprised if I ever melted again ;).

[Ginx snewx]

8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

This winter is getting an A or A- from me...only reason might be low elevation snowpack but I didn't think it was a big deal.  Had snowpack from Dec 3 through Feb 12...then two days with patchy cover before the big storm hit.  

I had white ground for all but like 2-3 days at home, and that's the lowest snowpack I see in my day to day life.  I travel from town to the mountain, ha.  Most of my waking daylight hours were spent looking at feet and feet of snow at the mountain.

I also really like consistent snows...it snowed a lot this year.  Like multiple week stretches at a time watching snow fall at home each evening.

I had around 145" at home, a little less than 2010-11 but the mountain had more than that winter which is what I care about.

I measured so much snow and watched so many storms over-produce that factors in big to my grade.  The surprise January 17-incher.  The multi-feet in early/mid December.  52" from Stella.  The 85" in 3 weeks of 1"+ accumulations every single day in mid-winter.  Twice this season or even three times it was the deepest snow of my life where you were concerned about drowning.  Unfortunately that did happen to someone, and inbound snow submersion deaths don't happen in the east but this year's snow was that deep.  

We would've set the all-time depth record I think if not for the two week thaw.  Still, biggest snow season at the resort since 2000-01.  That out-weighs anything that happens at my house haha.  I'd rather ski it.  

Plus at home we had what seemed like a half dozen warning criteria events so after two years without one that felt acceptable.

obvious most depth since 2001, heckuva ski season, CAD in Maine allowed them to have deep depths but your mountain got the golden Snowball when it came to snowstorms

[powderfreak]

18 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

obvious most depth since 2001, heckuva ski season, CAD in Maine allowed them to have deep depths but your mountain got the golden Snowball when it came to snowstorms

I just keep thinking if we didn't lose that 40" what type of all-time winter it probably would've been.

But that's what separates a historic A+ winter from an A-/A.  

I can see the low elevation snow cover issues but I had plenty of snow to XC ski with the dog and even snowshoe a few times in town. I just want it white all the time and there were a ton of evenings with snow in the air while out playing with the dogs.

I also enjoyed how most events seemed to perform or over-perform.  It was a good winter to take the DIT school of forecasting.  Take what most people say and add 25-50%.  

 

 

[qg_omega]

44 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

This winter is getting an A or A- from me...only reason might be low elevation snowpack but I didn't think it was a big deal.  Had snowpack from Dec 3 through Feb 12...then two days with patchy cover before the big storm hit.  

I had white ground for all but like 2-3 days at home, and that's the lowest snowpack I see in my day to day life.  I travel from town to the mountain, ha.  Most of my waking daylight hours were spent looking at feet and feet of snow at the mountain.

I also really like consistent snows...it snowed a lot this year.  Like multiple week stretches at a time watching snow fall at home each evening.

I had around 145" at home, a little less than 2010-11 but the mountain had more than that winter which is what I care about.

I measured so much snow and watched so many storms over-produce that factors in big to my grade.  The surprise January 17-incher.  The multi-feet in early/mid December.  52" from Stella.  The 85" in 3 weeks of 1"+ accumulations every single day in mid-winter.  Twice this season or even three times it was the deepest snow of my life where you were concerned about drowning.  Unfortunately that did happen to someone, and inbound snow submersion deaths don't happen in the east but this year's snow was that deep.  

We would've set the all-time depth record I think if not for the two week thaw.  Still, biggest snow season at the resort since 2000-01.  That out-weighs anything that happens at my house haha.  I'd rather ski it.  

Plus at home we had what seemed like a half dozen warning criteria events so after two years without one that felt acceptable.

great winter in the mountains this year overall, not a great winter in the lower elevations due to lack of sustained snow cover...snowmobile trails in the lower elevations were only sporadically open after the bigger storms.  A very warm but snowy winter overall.

[tamarack]

Snowpack:  This will certainly take the season down a peg.  Despite the good snowfall, SDD are at 848, only 60-70% of average, and the stats say that we’re in the bottom 30% of seasons for that parameter.  The continuous winter snowpack did start on Dec 3^rd, which is within the normal start window, and it’s still going, but it had that huge dip in the first half of March, when the mean snowpack numbers are still growing slightly or at least holding pat.  The low SDD speaks to those poor winter periods in part of December, all of January, and that first half of March.  It looks like a straight “D” is what the numbers call for with respect to snowpack this season.

This I found amazing; I knew my CAD-king site was doing very well with pack, just not how well.   I'm sitting at 2,746 thru yesterday, more than 3 times the above total despite measuring 56" less snowfall.  My continuous cover began on 12/5, but it was the 21" on 12/29-30 that led to serious depth, 25" on 12/30 and yesterday's 15" is the lowest since then - had some 16" days in late Jan.  That's 104 days with 15"+, peaking at 47" on 2/13.  I've lost just 8" in the warmth of Sun-Wed (54/67/71/53) and I think the remaining 15" includes most of the 6-8" of crusts that made taking SWE cores such an adventure.  That 2,746 is only 44 behind 00-01 for 3rd most, and 91 back of 13-14 for 2nd.  Given the Easter torch, I'm guessing we finish #3.

As of now my winter score would be B or B+, with A/A- (probably the full A) for snow and C for temps.  The 4 snowy months averaged 0.17F below my avg, the closest to avg for any DJFM of my 19 years here, and with no extended cold spells.  If 3/11's zero afternoon max had not been spiked by a cheap 14F the previous evening, I might've gone with C+.  I weight snow (total and pack) twice as much as temps, but the shoulder months may depress the temps grade a tiny bit - Nov was +2.9 and I think April will finish +1 to +3. 

[powderfreak]

9 minutes ago, tamarack said:

 

This I found amazing; I knew my CAD-king site was doing very well with pack, just not how well.   I'm sitting at 2,746 thru yesterday, more than 3 times the above total despite measuring 56" less snowfall.  My continuous cover began on 12/5, but it was the 21" on 12/29-30 that led to serious depth

That 21" in 2" of QPF at the end of December for you pretty much did it single handily... that's a big gain for that time of year and you hold onto it.  That storm alone probably accounted for 1200-1500 snow depth days for Jan/Feb/Mar, no?

You guys in Maine had a great winter with a bunch of sweet synoptic events that seemed heavy wet or dense.  Lots of marginal snows or is that my memory being wrong?

 

[tamarack]

23 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

That 21" in 2" of QPF at the end of December for you pretty much did it single handily... that's a big gain for that time of year and you hold onto it.  That storm alone probably accounted for 1200-1800 snow depth days for Jan/Feb/Mar, no?

You guys in Maine had a great winter with a bunch of sweet synoptic events that seemed heavy wet or dense.  Lots of marginal snows or is that my memory being wrong?

I think that 1200 would be in play, but not much more.  Of course, that's 70% of my annual average right there.  Due to compaction, our net gain from that 21" was 18, building from 7" up to 25.  By the March blizzard, I suspect that 18" layer had degraded to 5-6" of 3:1 crust thanks to late Jan/late Feb.

We had 6 warned storms in my zone.  One overperformed (Dec 29-30, 21" with 14-18 forecast) and 2 came in low, Feb 9 (4.6" with 6-10 forecast) and last week, 1.6" with 4-8 progged.  The big events of Feb and March verified at/near the midpoint of the forecast range, while the Feb 15-16 storm (6.2") missed a serious bust when the day shift dropped the earlier 12-16" forecast down to 6-10", as flakes began to coat the roads.  We also had 2 high-end advisory snows in mid-Dec and the 35:1 featherfall on Feb. 11.  The marginal events were the massive crust-building kitchen sink event of Jan 24 and a lesser mix'n'mess Feb 7-8.  I think that covers all the warned and WWA events.

[powderfreak]

24 minutes ago, qg_omega said:

great winter in the mountains this year overall, not a great winter in the lower elevations due to lack of sustained snow cover...snowmobile trails in the lower elevations were only sporadically open after the bigger storms.  A very warm but snowy winter overall.

Yeah its all personal grading...like I say for 3-4 months the least snowiest place I see is often my house, haha.  So as long as there's snow on the ground there I'm happy.  Now, if I was driving from here to BTV for work and seeing bare ground every day once I past J.Spin's area...I might have a different opinion. 

[J.Spin]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

This winter is getting an A or A- from me...only reason might be low elevation snowpack but I didn't think it was a big deal.  Had snowpack from Dec 3 through Feb 12...then two days with patchy cover before the big storm hit.

 

My winter grade of B is actually just for my site, so the mountains aren’t factored in.  If I factored the mountains in, the grade would go up to probably a B+.  I initially felt I might be able to push it to an A-, but after looking at what I wrote below, I can’t see it.  There’s no way, even with the mountains factored in, that this season could pull of a straight A in my opinion.  Even forgetting the somewhat meager stretches in December and January, how can anyone overlook that massive month-long hole in the winter of 2016-2017 that spanned the second half of February and went right through the first half of March until we got hit with Winter Storm Stella.  The mountain snowfall will be a bit higher than what I show below, but the snowfall numbers from my site tell that tale:

 

Total snowfall for 2^nd half of February:  0.4 inches

Total snowfall for 1^st half of March:  2.9 inches

 

That’s almost no new snow… for an entire month… in the prime of NNE winter.  It’s not that the snow entirely melted out on the slopes during that period, but there were plenty of thaws (and refreezes) and the snow surfaces and the quality of skiing really went to hell.  We had ski program on Feb 26^th at Stowe, and one of my featured images in my report from that day… is the kids and I playing cards at Spruce Camp.  You know the conditions are bad when even the kids don’t want to be out.  We then either cancelled, or should have cancelled, the following two weeks of ski program because of how bad the conditions were.  We’re essentially talking about a month long period during the peak of ski season being filled with “meh” here, which in my option is easily a deal breaker with respect to any season getting a straight A.  I think even A- is pushing it, and then throw in the additional bad periods in December and January and we’re easily down into the B range.

[ORH_wxman]

You can clearly see where people live based on how they view this winter...it's kind of funny...those VT posters who don't spend all day on Stowe like powderfreak have definitely criticized the snow pack this winter. Though jspin is clearly critical of the conditions even on the mountain for long stretches. There's def a lot of personalized factors into deciding how good the winter was.

 

Down here, I def factor in the pack retention on my personal satisfaction of the winter, but the events themselves are obviously the most important. We had a pretty active winter with a lot of events. One of my favorites actually might have been the snow/sleet of January 23-24 where I spent it on winter hill and there was localized upslope cooling keeping the snow/sleety mix rather than straight sleet or even ZR/RA. Ended up with over 4 inches of very dense 5 to 1 type pack. Given how frequent we had some events between late December and mid-February, it's kind of cruddy that the peak pack only got to around 22" on winter hill. Normally, I would have expected closer to 30" and for the deep pack to last longer...but that late February stretch took care of any thoughts of that happening.

[powderfreak]

35 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

 

My winter grade of B is actually just for my site, so the mountains aren’t factored in.  If I factored the mountains in, the grade would go up to probably a B+.  I initially felt I might be able to push it to an A-, but after looking at what I wrote below, I can’t see it.  There’s no way, even with the mountains factored in, that this season could pull of a straight A in my opinion.  Even forgetting the somewhat meager stretches in December and January, how can anyone overlook that massive month-long hole in the winter of 2016-2017 that spanned the second half of February and went right through the first half of March until we got hit with Winter Storm Stella.  The mountain snowfall will be a bit higher than what I show below, but the snowfall numbers from my site tell that tale:

 

Total snowfall for 2^nd half of February:  0.4 inches

Total snowfall for 1^st half of March:  2.9 inches

 

That’s almost no new snow… for an entire month… in the prime of NNE winter.  It’s not that the snow entirely melted out on the slopes during that period, but there were plenty of thaws (and refreezes) and the snow surfaces and the quality of skiing really went to hell.  We had ski program on Feb 26^th at Stowe, and one of my featured images in my report from that day… is the kids and I playing cards at Spruce Camp.  You know the conditions are bad when even the kids don’t want to be out.  We then either cancelled, or should have cancelled, the following two weeks of ski program because of how bad the conditions were.  We’re essentially talking about a month long period during the peak of ski season being filled with “meh” here, which in my option is easily a deal breaker with respect to any season getting a straight A.  I think even A- is pushing it, and then throw in the additional bad periods in December and January and we’re easily down into the B range.

Yeah see I look at my winter grade as a combination of how I personally will remember the winter.  I guess its all subjective.

Now to play devil's advocate regarding that period of no snow in the "prime of NNE winter"...we were just coming out of an "epic period" so maybe that's why it didn't bother me as much.

Looking at my spreadsheet for the two mountain snowfall sites, I remember and even have a note in there on February 19th that says "It didn't snow...phew" that I have never been more exhausted (in a good way) and actually in some ways enjoyed the Feb 19-28 period (only 2" of snow) because the prior period was so ridiculous, ha.

January 25th through February 17th resulted in 109" of snow at 3,000ft and 79" at 1,500ft.  That's one of the best stretches of skiing of my life.  I mean that was truly nuts.  Every single day.  So having the pattern go on a 2-3 week break I guess doesn't get to me as much.  Maybe the two periods cancel each other out?

I'd sign up for 109" in 3 weeks again I think just for the ridiculousness of it...even if it meant we'd go 2 weeks with only 2".  I'm seeing a bunch of 1-3" stuff in early March so it did start snowing again to some extent in the mountains.

But that period before the thaw was just nuts for snowfall with these stretches of 24 hour snows... 4/8/6/1/4...3/9/10/1/5/8/3...14/4/4/9/11...along with other nickle and dime stuff.

As far as bad periods in December and January... I honestly don't remember anything noteworthy bad (more so than any other winter and the recoveries were better than most winters).  January was the lowest snowfall month of the winter and it still snowed 18 days on my log.  I know ADK has mentioned this earlier but one thing was despite some rain events, each one was followed with snowfall (often very significant) within 24-36 hours that saved the skiing & riding. 

 

[powderfreak]

34 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

You can clearly see where people live based on how they view this winter...it's kind of funny...those VT posters who don't spend all day on Stowe like powderfreak have definitely criticized the snow pack this winter. Though jspin is clearly critical of the conditions even on the mountain for long stretches. There's def a lot of personalized factors into deciding how good the winter was.

Yeah totally subjective.  The more I look at my daily snow tally and notes the higher this winter is going in my mind, lol.  I mean it snowed so much.

I guess my thinking is I want to find the snow depth days for the mountain but we were above normal depths pretty much from the get-go this season.  Most of the season (except for the thaw) there were only a couple years with more snow on the ground at any given time.  Even WITH the thaw, the snow depth this past weekend was the 4th highest in 62 years.  And that was with losing 4 feet of snowpack in late February.  That to me is an incredible recovery which also factors in...most of us thought winter was done in early March only to have it come back and drop over another 100" after the first week of March.

I think snow depth days will be impressive considering recent history but its gotta be top 10 in 62 years, possibly top 5 though the thaw will hurt...the fact that it was the snowiest winter at the resort since 2000-2001...the stretch of 109" in 3 weeks....the 52" Stella storm...every upslope chance over-performed it seemed...I have to give it at least an A-.  The skiing even in December was crazy.  We were almost 100% open on natural snow on December 7th (and we hadn't even made snow on half the trails).  We got 60" in the first two weeks of December of mostly heavy dense snow.  The 22" of cake on December 2-4th did the most damage and opened most of the expert natural terrain.  I can't remember the last time I skied all that stuff like Liftline/Lookout/Goat/Starr that early in the season.

Just so many good memories, haha.  Can't possibly give it anything less than an A- locally.  I really don't think we are going to see a winter that just snows straight through...maybe but say 2007-2008 awesome winter but had a massive thaw that melted most out in early January.  You save the A+ seasons for the winters that never thaw and just snow from November through April continuously.

[J.Spin]

3 hours ago, tamarack said:

As of now my winter score would be B or B+, with A/A- (probably the full A) for snow and C for temps.

 

Temperatures are an interesting thing, I don’t track them or factor them in to my winter evaluation, but I’m not sure how I would anyway.  What increases the grade, warmer temperatures or colder temperatures?

 

Colder temperatures mean I’m potentially freezing whenever I’m outside, it costs more to heat the house, dealing with anything on the car (or other outdoor equipment) is a massive headache, and life is generally just that much more difficult.  Not to mention the times when we get those cold, dry, arctic air intrusions and it’s “too cold to snow” because the storm track has been pushed southward.  None of that is stuff that’s going to raise the winter grade for me.

 

Warmer temperatures can also be a headache because it can obviously be too warm to snow or maintain snowpack.  But, being “relatively” warm and right in the storm track is a huge plus, not to mention getting to enjoy comfortable temperatures in the 25 to 30 F range every day, where it’s pleasant to be outside on the slopes yet the snowpack is staying wintry. 

 

As far as I’m concerned, all that really matters with respect to temperatures is… whatever gets the most snow to fall.  Therefore, the snowpack and snowfall numbers take care of the temperature issue.  The larger the snowfall and resulting snowpack numbers, the “better” the temperatures were, however cold or warm they might have been.

[adk]

I can't really grade winters.  And snow depth on the mtn doesn't really move me to sing songs of love. Once snow depths up there hit 60" all the stuff I want to ski is skiable.  I'm a much bigger fan of constant 3" snowfalls and low expectations. Big well advertised storms bring too many people to the mtn...hahahaha.  Scott knows all to well the joys of getting into the lot and seeing 6" when 2" was forecast. To me that's the best. 

That said, there were some really really good periods this winter....on par with as good as anything the Greens can produce for snowfall. I really like the early season - Dec and Nov. skiing. 

I also liked that for most of the winter, BTV was snow free. I actually downgrade the winter because Stella and the next round of snow made BTV a sloppy mess for three weeks just as you wanted a little sun and warmth. 

 

[ApacheTrout]

I'll throw in my two cents on the quality of winter here in the southern end of the Champlain Valley.

Overall grade, D+, due primarily to the extremely warm January (+11F, as measured at BTV, so it was possibly worse here 60 miles to the south) and February (+8F, with two all time February high temps set during the last week of the month), and very lousy snow retention during the DJF period.  That stretch was so putrid that it really defined winter down here.  We couldn't even keep a 9-inch snowfall (Feb 13) on the ground for more than 4 days.  Banana Belt, indeed.

I don't like counting mid-March snowfall in grading winter because it naturally doesn't stick around more than a few days, but that's a sort of cherry picking.    The 18 inches (Pi Day) and the 6.7 inches of March 31 brought the total snow here to 62.5 inches, which is about average for my neck of the woods.  Those two storms are what brings the winter from a true Fail to the D+.

[eekuasepinniW]

this winter was ok