Your 8th Annual SNE Lawn Thread

[Lava Rock]

After spending $10K+ on our lawn project, looks like we'll need to add more topsoil this Fall and overseed. Other than a ton of weeds at this point, probably 75% of the total area is quite thin on grass and still have noticeable gullies from the May rains. My thought was to bring in ~15yds (will measure to be sure) loam and spread out to ~1", seed then straw. I think I need to come to the realization that without a sprinkler sys, our lawns are prone to direct sun most of the day and other then Spring and Fall (sometimes), it's the only time the lawn looks decent. Otherwise it gets baked.

[IrishRob17]

On 7/29/2017 at 1:29 PM, wxeyeNH said:

Our gardens look good this year.  Lots of rain helped. Now the first long dry spell begins but the soil is moist all the way down.  Very different than last year.  We have gardens all around the house and road.  I like color.  The daylilly/hydrangea garden is in full bloom.  Annuals around the house are filling in.  Here's a few pics.  Hey does anyone know why our hydrangea's don't have more blooms?  We went down to the Cape 2 weeks ago and the hydrangea's down there have  so many blooms.  Ours are nice and green but not nearly as many blooms.  Maybe the climate difference?  Cape is 150 miles south and 1100 feet lower.  Thoughts?

Very nice.  Sadly though all the deer I have around me would have a field day if I had gardens/plants like that.  I can get away with some but even with the motion sensor sprinkler they still chowed down some hosta earlier this season.

[dendrite]

2 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

Very nice.  Sadly though all the deer I have around me would have a field day if I had gardens/plants like that.  I can get away with some but even with the motion sensor sprinkler they still chowed down some hosta earlier this season.

He has tons of deer. 

[IrishRob17]

9 minutes ago, dendrite said:

He has tons of deer. 

Then more power to him that the deer haven't found those gardens.  Those lilies and hosta would have been destroyed in my yard.  

[wxeyeNH]

Oh,  believe me I have a full lawn mower and shrub eating crew.   With many old apple trees on my property I am a deer magnet.  On any given winter day they are all over the yard.  Like a petting zoo.  Here's a picture.  I think I count 17 in this picture.  On some days I have counted  up to 30.   Most of our gardens are deep under snow all winter.  In the fall the deer have apples.  Then as pickings get slim they move in.  They will come right up to the house.  Scrubs do take a beating that is why its mostly gardens and not shrubs!  

[IrishRob17]

13 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

Oh,  believe me I have a full lawn mower and shrub eating crew.   With many old apple trees on my property I am a deer magnet.  On any given winter day they are all over the yard.  Like a petting zoo.  Here's a picture.  I think I count 17 in this picture.  On some days I have counted  up to 30.   Most of our gardens are deep under snow all winter.  In the fall the deer have apples.  Then as pickings get slim they move in.  They will come right up to the house.  Scrubs do take a beating that is why its mostly gardens and not shrubs!  

We have a comparable herd then, I wonder what your herd eats during the summer, I get those bastards right up to the house year round.  I've transitioned my garden over to more deer resistant plants and grasses over the years but even with that I've learned that nothing is ever really deer proof if they are hungry enough. 

[mreaves]

56 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

We have a comparable herd then, I wonder what your herd eats during the summer, I get those bastards right up to the house year round.  I've transitioned my garden over to more deer resistant plants and grasses over the years but even with that I've learned that nothing is ever really deer proof if they are hungry enough. 

What is the surrounding habitat in your area like.  Is there other feed readily available?

[wxeyeNH]

Hi Guys,

I usually stick to the NNE thread and I'm not very active on the lawn and garden thread. Thanks for all the comments/advice/compliments since my postings this past month..  Kind of a interesting back story about the gardens and our lawn.  Our house was built in 1795.  Fixer upper when we bought it way back in 1989.  Being an old farmstead it had great soil.  I never watered, fertilized or did any lawn or garden care although it only had a few small gardens.  House had a dirt basement, and the sill was in pretty bad shape.   6 years ago, July 2011 we noticed a strange fungus growing up from the soil into the house wood.  Spreading fast and eating the wood.  Got in experts and they couldn't believe what they saw.  Poria.  It's a very rare, house eating fungus.  Usually seen out west.  Look it up if your interested.  It will destroy your home quickly and the only way to stop it is to have no contact between soil and wood.   Well that was impossible with an old granite foundation and dirt cellar.  We had to get in touch with experts out west. The two options we were repeated told  was to lift the house, construct a modern cement foundation or tear the whole house down.  It was a nightmare.  Ch 5 in Boston wanted to do a story.  Ch 9 in Manchester NH wanted to do a story.  That's all we needed, a sick house story.  We said no thanks!  So we opted to dig a new foundation, lift the house, move it 25 feet and set it back down.  New sill, joicying system, electric, septic, on and on.  NIGHTMARE.  Job well into the 6 figures.  All the lawns, pasture within a couple of hundred feet got destroyed with bulldozers and equipment.  All our good old farm topsoil got mixed in with the crap underneath.  Tons of boulders dug up.  60K in just the earth project/landscape part.  So it was like a new house lot.  We do hope to get much of this $$ back someday as this is an awesome house and property. 

As far as the gardens and lawn.  First we now had about 70 huge granite foundation pieces to work with.  We incorporated them into the new raised gardens and landscaping. We have lots of steep slope behind the house  so  we constructed retaining walls and gardens with the boulders.  Starting from scratch we bought perennials and a few shrubs and just went from there. I am no garden expert.  As for the lawn we brought in so many dump trucks of top soil.  I can't remember how many yards.  With so much area to recover it was just impossible to put down as much topsoil as we would have liked.  The fungus project construction lasted from July into October.  In the spring of 2012 we brought in the topsoil.  I watched the weather and coordinated with the lawn people as to when to  hydroseed.  Luckily we had a nice long wet spell. .  Most of the hydroseeding was successful but did have to go over some areas with washout.  Before the house move I never had to fertilize.  Soil was deep and rich.  Now the lawn needs constant care.  The topsoil is thin.  In hindsight I wished I had bit the bullet and put down more.  I don't remember how deep it is.  Now  the lawn drys out easily so we have to water a lot.  It was miserable during last years drought as we had to pick and choose what we watered and for how long.  Really stressed the well but never ran out of water even being so high up.  We apply Agway organic 15/1/10 fertilizer about every 6 weeks.  

As far as deer go, we live in  a deer magnet.  From what I understand the apple orchard was planted in 1906.  So the deer come down from the hills in the fall and yard behind our house.  They have learned through generations that the pickings are good here.  Lots of apples till snowfall.  We are at a high elevation and in the NW part of the NH Lakes Region.  I'd guess we average 80 plus for snow.  So  around Thanksgiving till early April we usually have  deep snowcover.  The deer "yard up" in the woods behind the house. Most of the time the gardens are covered in  snow and it is usually deep enough  so that the deer stay mostly in or near the woods. I see them nibble on brush along the woods and along the deer paths they make.  We have a SW exposure and lose snow cover before most places around.  So if we get deer damage it is right after snow melt when they are hungriest. Some of the scrubs around the house have gotten niblbed on  eaten but it has not been too bad.  Once the snow has left the woods they seem to head back into the hills and I only occasionally see a deer or two during green season!   Below is a few pictures of the "Poria Project".   Note how nothing was left of our lawns!  By the way when I called my insurance company to make a claim they said that mold and mildew/fungus was not covered.  Who knew that this would be a problem living high on a hill!

[IrishRob17]

7 minutes ago, mreaves said:

What is the surrounding habitat in your area like.  Is there other feed readily available?

I like in a park and I'm surrounded by farms, woodlands, and wet lands.

[wxeyeNH]

1 hour ago, IrishRob17 said:

I like in a park and I'm surrounded by farms, woodlands, and wet lands.

I live in a mostly forested area.  A few open spaces around.  House is 600 feet above the surrounding area. Newfound Lake, NH 5th largest is just to the west.  Our house and location is just  below the dot.  So I would guess this is a great spot for deer to winter.  I don't know too much about White tailed deer but I think we are pretty close to  the northern edge of  habitat  so we don't have the numbers as further south.  House is just below the yellow dot... 

[Baroclinic Zone]

Gene, as someone who is in the residential design business, what a fascinating story.  I am currently working with a client in Harwich, MA who has gone through the trouble to lift an old 1885 house to put in a full basement.  It's not a small undertaking and mesmerizing to see what's involved.  I love when old houses are saved and brought into the modern times with all the luxuries we live with.  My hat goes off to you in doing so.  I go back to my original thoughts regarding your soil, you may want to have a soil analysis done to see what you have and to see what you're lacking.  The topsoil I see used today just doesn't cut it either in nutrients or physically not enough where contractors cut corners.  You're going to want around 6" of topsoil if you're looking to have a nice lawn and also to make sure it has all the nutrients and micro-nutrients to keep it healthy.  It's unfortunate you likely lost what was la treasure-trove of organic soil that was a couple centuries in the making. 

[IrishRob17]

13 hours ago, wxeyeNH said:

I live in a mostly forested area.  A few open spaces around.  House is 600 feet above the surrounding area. Newfound Lake, NH 5th largest is just to the west.  Our house and location is just  below the dot.  So I would guess this is a great spot for deer to winter.  I don't know too much about White tailed deer but I think we are pretty close to  the northern edge of  habitat  so we don't have the numbers as further south.  House is just below the yellow dot... 

Maybe it's herd size and overall food availability, I don't have an apple orchard nearby for example. I know that in the spring of 15 there were half a dozen deer carcasses we found in various spots around and near my yard over a couple months, DEC came out and concluded that they had starved that winter. 

[Lava Rock]

21 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

After spending $10K+ on our lawn project, looks like we'll need to add more topsoil this Fall and overseed. Other than a ton of weeds at this point, probably 75% of the total area is quite thin on grass and still have noticeable gullies from the May rains. My thought was to bring in ~15yds (will measure to be sure) loam and spread out to ~1", seed then straw. I think I need to come to the realization that without a sprinkler sys, our lawns are prone to direct sun most of the day and other then Spring and Fall (sometimes), it's the only time the lawn looks decent. Otherwise it gets baked.

Question for the lawn gurus. Do I treat the weeds this Fall and wait until next Spring to drop more loam/seed? My thinking is that if I do the loam/seed end of next month, the weeds are competing for soil nutrients, making it harder for the seed to get established.

[backedgeapproaching]

17 hours ago, wxeyeNH said:

Hi Guys,

I usually stick to the NNE thread and I'm not very active on the lawn and garden thread. Thanks for all the comments/advice/compliments since my postings this past month..  Kind of a interesting back story about the gardens and our lawn.  Our house was built in 1795.  Fixer upper when we bought it way back in 1989.  Being an old farmstead it had great soil.  I never watered, fertilized or did any lawn or garden care although it only had a few small gardens.  House had a dirt basement, and the sill was in pretty bad shape.   6 years ago, July 2011 we noticed a strange fungus growing up from the soil into the house wood.  Spreading fast and eating the wood.  Got in experts and they couldn't believe what they saw.  Poria.  It's a very rare, house eating fungus.  Usually seen out west.  Look it up if your interested.  It will destroy your home quickly and the only way to stop it is to have no contact between soil and wood.   Well that was impossible with an old granite foundation and dirt cellar.  We had to get in touch with experts out west. The two options we were repeated told  was to lift the house, construct a modern cement foundation or tear the whole house down.  It was a nightmare.  Ch 5 in Boston wanted to do a story.  Ch 9 in Manchester NH wanted to do a story.  That's all we needed, a sick house story.  We said no thanks!  So we opted to dig a new foundation, lift the house, move it 25 feet and set it back down.  New sill, joicying system, electric, septic, on and on.  NIGHTMARE.  Job well into the 6 figures.  All the lawns, pasture within a couple of hundred feet got destroyed with bulldozers and equipment.  All our good old farm topsoil got mixed in with the crap underneath.  Tons of boulders dug up.  60K in just the earth project/landscape part.  So it was like a new house lot.  We do hope to get much of this $$ back someday as this is an awesome house and property. 

As far as the gardens and lawn.  First we now had about 70 huge granite foundation pieces to work with.  We incorporated them into the new raised gardens and landscaping. We have lots of steep slope behind the house  so  we constructed retaining walls and gardens with the boulders.  Starting from scratch we bought perennials and a few shrubs and just went from there. I am no garden expert.  As for the lawn we brought in so many dump trucks of top soil.  I can't remember how many yards.  With so much area to recover it was just impossible to put down as much topsoil as we would have liked.  The fungus project construction lasted from July into October.  In the spring of 2012 we brought in the topsoil.  I watched the weather and coordinated with the lawn people as to when to  hydroseed.  Luckily we had a nice long wet spell. .  Most of the hydroseeding was successful but did have to go over some areas with washout.  Before the house move I never had to fertilize.  Soil was deep and rich.  Now the lawn needs constant care.  The topsoil is thin.  In hindsight I wished I had bit the bullet and put down more.  I don't remember how deep it is.  Now  the lawn drys out easily so we have to water a lot.  It was miserable during last years drought as we had to pick and choose what we watered and for how long.  Really stressed the well but never ran out of water even being so high up.  We apply Agway organic 15/1/10 fertilizer about every 6 weeks.  

As far as deer go, we live in  a deer magnet.  From what I understand the apple orchard was planted in 1906.  So the deer come down from the hills in the fall and yard behind our house.  They have learned through generations that the pickings are good here.  Lots of apples till snowfall.  We are at a high elevation and in the NW part of the NH Lakes Region.  I'd guess we average 80 plus for snow.  So  around Thanksgiving till early April we usually have  deep snowcover.  The deer "yard up" in the woods behind the house. Most of the time the gardens are covered in  snow and it is usually deep enough  so that the deer stay mostly in or near the woods. I see them nibble on brush along the woods and along the deer paths they make.  We have a SW exposure and lose snow cover before most places around.  So if we get deer damage it is right after snow melt when they are hungriest. Some of the scrubs around the house have gotten niblbed on  eaten but it has not been too bad.  Once the snow has left the woods they seem to head back into the hills and I only occasionally see a deer or two during green season!   Below is a few pictures of the "Poria Project".   Note how nothing was left of our lawns!  By the way when I called my insurance company to make a claim they said that mold and mildew/fungus was not covered.  Who knew that this would be a problem living high on a hill!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow--crazy story! Nice to be able to save the house.  Everything looks great now. There are currently 3 old houses that I have noticed in my small town being raised and a new foundations/basements being put in.  Definitely some fascinating work.  

[backedgeapproaching]

40 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

Question for the lawn gurus. Do I treat the weeds this Fall and wait until next Spring to drop more loam/seed? My thinking is that if I do the loam/seed end of next month, the weeds are competing for soil nutrients, making it harder for the seed to get established.

Might need to see some updated pics to see what actually is going on there--how much actual grass vs weeds.

[Lava Rock]

Just now, backedgeapproaching said:

Might need to see some updated pics to see what actually is going on there--how much actual grass vs weeds.

It's ugly. Will snap some pics tonight. The new hydro that was seeded in May is mostly brown now. Lots of crabgrass, ragweed and other interesting weeds.

[Baroclinic Zone]

4 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

It's ugly. Will snap some pics tonight. The new hydro that was seeded in May is mostly brown now. Lots of crabgrass, ragweed and other interesting weeds.

Seeding in Spring is a tough thing to do.  Your best bet may be to do what your thinking of, bring in some more top-soil and re-seed this Fall.  I'd give it till the end of August to do that.  You can't put any weed killer as it will prevent any new grass seed from germinating.  By doing this it will give the new seed a greater chance at rooting deeper and helps it from drying out.

[SJonesWX]

21 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

It's ugly. Will snap some pics tonight. The new hydro that was seeded in May is mostly brown now. Lots of crabgrass, ragweed and other interesting weeds.

I would bring in a little topsoil to fill in the low spots, then hit it with an overseeder (slit seeder). you will be amazed at the results-not immediately but certainly next spring. i would do it in early Sept, i usually overseed during Labor day weekend

[backedgeapproaching]

36 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

It's ugly. Will snap some pics tonight. The new hydro that was seeded in May is mostly brown now. Lots of crabgrass, ragweed and other interesting weeds.

This would have been good to put down at seeding time.  Its really the only product available at big box stores that can prevent and kill weeds at the same time not harm grass and allow it to establish.  Active ingredient is mesotrione also used in Tenacity--which is the top of line liquid weed killer. 

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Scotts-21-5-lb-5-000-sq-ft-Turf-Builder-Starter-Food-for-New-Grass-Plus-Weed-Preventer-23200/203716573

 

[Lava Rock]

8 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

This would have been good to put down at seeding time.  Its really the only product available at big box stores that can prevent and kill weeds at the same time not harm grass and allow it to establish.  Active ingredient is mesotrione also used in Tenacity--which is the top of line liquid weed killer. 

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Scotts-21-5-lb-5-000-sq-ft-Turf-Builder-Starter-Food-for-New-Grass-Plus-Weed-Preventer-23200/203716573

 

I have Tenacity. but since hiring Trugreen last Summer, I've stopped treating my own lawn, however Trugreen is about to get fired as they are terrible this year. Last year, despite limited rain, they came every 4 weeks beginning in April. We had limited weeds and lawn looked decent. This year, they've come twice, April and June 1. I called and complained and was told they will be here this Weds, which is 2 months since last time. They applied crabgrass control during the June treatment, but it was too late. Not sure what's going on with local office, but thinking of going with someone else next year or doing it myself again.

[SJonesWX]

16 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

I have Tenacity. but since hiring Trugreen last Summer, I've stopped treating my own lawn, however Trugreen is about to get fired as they are terrible this year. Last year, despite limited rain, they came every 4 weeks beginning in April. We had limited weeds and lawn looked decent. This year, they've come twice, April and June 1. I called and complained and was told they will be here this Weds, which is 2 months since last time. They applied crabgrass control during the June treatment, but it was too late. Not sure what's going on with local office, but thinking of going with someone else next year or doing it myself again.

call them and complain some more, let them know your concerns, and tell them you are thinking about going elsewhere for service. they should step up their game, and they should offer a free service or 2. if they don't offer a free service or 2, ask them for it. you will get it.

[OceanStWx]

On 6/16/2017 at 0:15 PM, tamarack said:

If the street gets much salt in winter, I wouldn't plant sugar maple within 50' of it - the species does not tolerate salt well at all.  Red maple will do better; it's not quite as nice nor long-lived as sugar maple, but neither is it ugly or short-lived, and its fall colors are second to none.  Pin oak is one of the hardier oaks as a street tree, and it has the brightest fall colors of any of the red oak group (plus choosing oak will get you some accusations of insanity from Mt. Tolland.)  Red oak grows faster and larger, but many of that species have rather dull coloration and their acorns are twice the size of pin oak's.  An interesting non-native (to Maine) that would probably do well at your location is tulip poplar.  There's a huge one in Topsham on Rt 201 just up from the downtown traffic light - on the right as one comes from Brunswick.  Showy blossoms, fast growth, long-lived but ask the nursery owner where it came from - SNE good, central Apps area, frost kill.  There are frost-hardy varieties; a large one is growing in downtown Farmington at the corner of High and Perham Streets.

As a rule of thumb, put deciduous trees south of the house, evergreens to the north and west.  Not an ironclad rule and mixed species N & W are fine, but it's good to get shade in summer and sun in winter, and maybe some windbreak from the cold NW-erlies.  White pine, white spruce, white cedar (often sold as arborvitae.)  I'd avoid hemlock - nice tree but hemlock woolley adelgid is killing it in some S.Maine locations.

Some history about sugar maple and salt:  Back in the early 1970s when downhill ski development in VT was going nuts, the state DOT made a commitment to "dry roads within 12 hours" after a storm, and implemented it with mega-use of salt.  After 3-4 years many of the old iconic roadside sugar maples began to die, and soon the cause was determined and DOT looked for safer methods.  

Well it's officially official, we closed yesterday. I am currently loving the idea of acer rubrum (state tree of RI!), and they will be south of the house. Maybe like the October Glory cultivar. 

[CoastalWx]

15 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Well it's officially official, we closed yesterday. I am currently loving the idea of acer rubrum (state tree of RI!), and they will be south of the house. Maybe like the October Glory cultivar. 

Congrats! I forget...house or condo?

[OceanStWx]

Just now, CoastalWx said:

Congrats! I forget...house or condo?

Big boy house. No more sharing walls with neighbors.

[CoastalWx]

16 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Big boy house. No more sharing walls with neighbors.

Ekster being the guy on the couch?

[OceanStWx]

4 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Ekster being the guy on the couch?

Couch, gutter. It's all the same.

[dendrite]

1 hour ago, OceanStWx said:

Well it's officially official, we closed yesterday. I am currently loving the idea of acer rubrum (state tree of RI!), and they will be south of the house. Maybe like the October Glory cultivar. 

I was looking at those too, but they don't come cheapfrom a quality nursery. I found a decent looking, lone armstrong maple at Lowes discounted to $20 a few weeks ago and planted it on the south side of my run. Now I'm experimenting with trying to root some sugar maple cuttings, but I don't expect any success...even with a rooting hormone. The only one I tried that I expect to root is my white willow. 

[OceanStWx]

5 minutes ago, dendrite said:

I was looking at those too, but they don't come cheapfrom a quality nursery. I found a decent looking, lone armstrong maple at Lowes discounted to $20 a few weeks ago and planted it on the south side of my run. Now I'm experimenting with trying to root some sugar maple cuttings, but I don't expect any success...even with a rooting hormone. The only one I tried that I expect to root is my white willow. 

We're required by covenant to plant two street trees (and it's a pretty long accepted list: http://www.portlandmaine.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1765) but they use acer rubrum as a starting point. We do have the benefit of underground utilities, so height is not an issue.

[S&P]

21 hours ago, SJonesWX said:

I would bring in a little topsoil to fill in the low spots, then hit it with an overseeder (slit seeder). you will be amazed at the results-not immediately but certainly next spring. i would do it in early Sept, i usually overseed during Labor day weekend

THIS , when i bought my current home i had nothing but crabgrass and grubs, literally <10% actual grass, i used a slit seeder the first fall and then started the season long fert and weed/insect control applications with these results. watering helps - a lot

 

from this spring (still lookslike this)

[tamarack]

22 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

Well it's officially official, we closed yesterday. I am currently loving the idea of acer rubrum (state tree of RI!), and they will be south of the house. Maybe like the October Glory cultivar. 

Great!  I'm not that familiar with all the cultivars.  However, PWM has probably the most well-developed and thorough urban forestry program in the state, so their recommendations should be on target.  My preference in red maple color is bright red with a hint of burgundy tone.  The best and most reliable exemplar I've seen is about halfway up Sand Hill on Northern Avenue in Augusta.  In autumn 2005, the worst year for color in my memory, that tree had the only true red that I saw.  This true turns 7-10 days later than its neighbors, and often holds good color into early November.